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- Thread starter AlexaH
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In 2015, I had issues w Sandra's behavior endangering the children to the point that she was sent packing for a month. She left understanding that she would return. She returned & growth which started while she was gone continued after she came back.
Alexa didn't talk about a need to "find herself" or some such. She's not finding how to be a better woman (not intentionally). She left w no desire or intention to return.
Alexa didn't talk about a need to "find herself" or some such. She's not finding how to be a better woman (not intentionally). She left w no desire or intention to return.
There is some scriptural precedent for that, it's an extreme measure but I'm fascinated to hear of someone actually doing that successfully. Very interesting. And it says a lot about Sandra's character that she learned from it and grew closer to you as a result. Good on her.
Fully understood. She's threatened to leave, and she's now left, apparently with no intention to return - in your understanding. She might have a different perspective on it of course, as behind her words and actions might lie a different actual intent or desire. That is the practical reality.
I am simply trying to tease out from you whether she should still be regarded as your wife.
Understood. Not defending her.
You can't practically care for someone who you have no contact with. However as her husband you should maintain an attitude of love and intent to care should that opportunity or need arise.
Unless you are choosing to no longer be her husband.
She needs to know the answer to know where she stands scripturally.
1) I never told her to leave. I told her to stop lying. Either leave as she threatened or stop threatening to leave.
2) I never told her I couldn't do this anymore. I have gone through MUCH worse w Sandra. She was at her breaking point. I wasn't. Our 10 year age gap has given me patience.
That's fair enough.
You keep talking about ongoing obligations to her. How do u then interpret...
1 Corinthians 7:15
"Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace."
Wouldn't such obligations be a bondage?
1 Corinthians 7:15
"Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace."
Wouldn't such obligations be a bondage?
Obviously she's got to be willing to discuss scripture, and not see quoting scripture as "lording it over her".
However, I think you need to recognise that just quoting the scripture is not necessarily effective communication. A good example of that is earlier in this thread. You quoted scripture about being willing to either live with an unbeliever or let them leave. I took it to mean that you were saying she is welcome back in your home, but you were apparently meaning that she had decided to leave so wasn't welcome back. I took it to mean almost the exact opposite of what you intended.
So what is important is communicating your interpretation and understanding of the scripture. That will probably feel more like a conversation from her perspective, and will probably communicate your intent far more clearly also.
However, I think you need to recognise that just quoting the scripture is not necessarily effective communication. A good example of that is earlier in this thread. You quoted scripture about being willing to either live with an unbeliever or let them leave. I took it to mean that you were saying she is welcome back in your home, but you were apparently meaning that she had decided to leave so wasn't welcome back. I took it to mean almost the exact opposite of what you intended.
So what is important is communicating your interpretation and understanding of the scripture. That will probably feel more like a conversation from her perspective, and will probably communicate your intent far more clearly also.
Good question.
Personally, I'd take it to mean that you're not obliged to keep sending her money or food or whatever in her rebellion (which incidentally is a major stab at US alimony laws, but that's an aside). You don't have to support a rebellious wife. However, as you're also to be willing to live with them if they choose to remain, I'd see it as not changing the fact that, like the father of the prodigal son, you should remain open for their return. Unless, of course, they commit adultery in their absence.
Others may interpret it differently of course.
I might have understood incorrectly, but most of the "obligations" you're referencing are the generic obligations we have to each other as fellow saints which are summed as phileo love. My obligation to sacrifice all for her has ended as has all sexual requirements. She said until death that one day, but her later words & actions implied something less permanent.
I am very confused as to how it was misinterpreted.
Exactly, I was willing to live w her, but she wanted to leave, so I let her. There's nothing here about coming back. Coming back is not addressed in this passage at all. The verse I quoted later is the only verse I know about ex-spouses returning. The other passage that could have bearing is ...
1 Corinthians 7:5
"Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
But that's addressing married couples not dissolving relationships. There's nothing in our text thread that indicates "I'll be back some day."
I understand your perspective on the scripture, and am not going to debate it with you. You're in a situation I would hate to be in myself, and I'm not going to pretend to have the ability to judge it from the outside. At the end of the day, if she does end up committing adultery in her rebellion, all of this will become a pointless hairsplitting exercise.
The major benefit of you posting here is that we are now aware of some rather major differences between the situation as @AlexaH has described it, and the situation from your perspective. That will be very helpful for anybody whom she may seek counsel from behind the scenes, to ensure they properly understand the circumstances. Thankyou.
The major benefit of you posting here is that we are now aware of some rather major differences between the situation as @AlexaH has described it, and the situation from your perspective. That will be very helpful for anybody whom she may seek counsel from behind the scenes, to ensure they properly understand the circumstances. Thankyou.
I wasn't intending to start a debate, but I am fascinated by the way people think, how they connect dots in their mind to arrive at conclusions or jump steps to hurry the conversation along.
As I see it, you were taking Alexa from where she is now & plugging her into the verse as my willingness to live w her after all of this vs starting from when we were together last month and seeing the dissolution (let them leave) as it happened.
As I see it, you were taking Alexa from where she is now & plugging her into the verse as my willingness to live w her after all of this vs starting from when we were together last month and seeing the dissolution (let them leave) as it happened.
Basically, yes.
My point in this has been to try and figure out what the scriptural situation is for @AlexaH. She has come here seeking advice and support, and has been receiving it both on this thread and in private chats with people. I'm trying to tease out the details so that people can advise her critically and correctly, rather than just accepting everything she says at face value and patting her on the back. And a critical question there is "are you still married?". Hence my repeated probing on matters related to that.
Yes, Paul was addressing believers married to unbelievers, but that verse often gets quoted and misapplied, while ignoring the other verses where Paul gives guidance on the wife who does leave her husband. He said that if she does leave, she should either remain single or else be reconciled to her husband. Later in Chapter 7 verse 39, he says that she is bound to you until the day that you die, and only after you die, is she free to marry anyone that she chooses. I know that you are seeking relief from Scripture from a woman who the way you describe her, is unbearable, but the only thing I can find in Scripture regarding when the wife leaves you, well, you must confirm that she has committed adultery, before you can be cleared of any guilt when it comes to causing her to commit adultery, in refusing to take her back, but you are not required to refrain from remarrying, if she leaves.
Something strikes me as not handling the situation appropriately when you told her to either leave or stop threatening to leave. Don't worry. I know that I haven't handled every situation the right way in my marriage. I can't envision telling my wife to leave or stop threatening to leave, though, if she were to do so, and I'm not saying whether she has ever done that or not, because that is between me and her. I might tell her to not talk like that, and that she shouldn't say things like that, but it sounds like you were exasperated, and you reacted out of frustration with her antics. That is understandable, and I get why you wouldn't want her back, but remember that love endures all things.
Something strikes me as not handling the situation appropriately when you told her to either leave or stop threatening to leave. Don't worry. I know that I haven't handled every situation the right way in my marriage. I can't envision telling my wife to leave or stop threatening to leave, though, if she were to do so, and I'm not saying whether she has ever done that or not, because that is between me and her. I might tell her to not talk like that, and that she shouldn't say things like that, but it sounds like you were exasperated, and you reacted out of frustration with her antics. That is understandable, and I get why you wouldn't want her back, but remember that love endures all things.
I think asking her that would be more effective. She left. If she hasn't left me for another, then she might consider it. Otherwise, she'd say her new man is her husband, not me.
Sandra kept threatening to go back to Mommy in the beginning. I threw the car keys at her & told her to go back to Mommy. She didn't catch them. She let them go past her & ran into my arms. She never threatened to leave again.
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