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Tesfalcon said:
If leadership means that it's all your fault, then that means that ultimately, all sin is God's fault since He is the originator of Adam & the leader of us all.
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This is a false syllogism. You are distorting what is being asserted to you, which simplified comes down to, if you're the leader, then you're responsible for everything and everyone over whom you claim leadership. Your formulation therefore comes down to asserting that, if one is a leader everything that happens under one's leadership is that leader's responsibility, and God is the Creator of all leaders, so therefore God is responsible for everything everyone does wrong. By stating it that way, you are conflating leadership with creation. God created us, and He has made covenants with us or our representatives, but rarely do his human creations fully submit to His leadership or even agree to surrender themselves to do so.

What I believe @FollowingHim is attempting to convey to you is that you are dancing around the fact that you are letting yourself off the hook for having failed to determine that Alexa would fully agree to submit to your leadership and now want to blame her for failing to do what she never agreed to do. If what you're describing about her is true, then we're not going to dispute that she bears some of the blame. However, within patriarchal leadership, the only approach that contains full power is to assume 100% of the responsibility for everything that happens in the family, which doesn't mean that no one else bears responsibility for hir actions -- just that the buck stops with you.

By the way, I say this as a man who married his wife 33 years ago without insisting on clearing up where responsibility lies, and I fostered a dysfunctional family atmosphere for about 28 of those years until I took on the project of bearing 100% of the responsibility. Part of what taking that pledge has entailed is requiring of myself that I be patient with my wife as she gradually comes around to following my leadership, which was leadership I formerly rarely provided and which she should be forgiven for having failed to follow, because it was relatively nonexistent. This has made a tremendous difference in our marriage and family.
 
P.D. Ouspensky, a follower of spiritualist G.I. Gurdjieff, famously asserted that there is knowing and there is being. As this relates to Scripture, we are exhorted that being intellectually familiar with Scripture is all well and good, but what matters even more is not whether we can quote it but the differences it makes in our life when we implement it. I loved your retelling of instances in which you laid down markers about refusing to continue catering to various threats, especially the threat of leaving, and I loved it because you made your philosophy tangible -- you threw your wife the car keys and said, go ahead, go back to Mommy. I've done similar things myself.

However, I believe it's inappropriate to treat Scripture as The Big Rule Book, as if all one is required to do is memorize the Rules and then expect everyone else in one's orbit to follow those Rules -- when what is actually required of leaders in regard to Scripture is for the leaders to, first, immerse themselves in Scripture (knowing) and then transform their own lives in such a way (being) that those around them are inspired to not only follow their examples but are further inspired to read Scripture themselves in order to more fully get in touch with what inspired their leaders in the first place. Otherwise, one falls into the trap of using Scripture as a Magic Trick, as in, "Hey, this Book is great! Now all I have to do is get everyone around me to follow all its Rules, and everything will be perfect."
 
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So this all places @Tesfalcon and @AlexaH in a very difficult position.

As far as I can see from what we've seen from both sides of this, the two of you do not even appear to have a friendship. You just don't get on very well at all.

He feels that your behaviour in his home is unacceptable, and he sounds glad you've decided to take that behaviour out of his home. Rightly or wrongly, he does not even consider you a genuine Christian, based on your behaviour and lack of evidencing the fruits of the Spirit that should accompany genuine conversion. Maybe this is unfair, but it seems to be a very strong impression from a long time of observation.

From your perspective, you feel he is controlling and overbearing. Honestly, I think he's probably a blunt and poor communicator. The text conversation he shared did include scripture used in a way that could feel like a bludgeon, to someone on the receiving end of it. But quoting scripture is not in itself controlling. I am convinced there is mainly a serious disconnect between the way he talks, and the way you listen, which means you perceive it differently to the way he intended it.

In hindsight, he probably wishes he had never married you, and you may regret marrying him. But you did marry. And having married you, he does not wish to divorce you, as he sees that as sinful. So that leaves only three possible resolutions to the situation:
  1. @AlexaH changes her behaviour to function within the family in accordance with @Tesfalcon's expectations of what that would look like,
  2. @Tesfalcon lowers his expectations to accept @AlexaH continuing to behave in ways he feels are unacceptable, or
  3. @AlexaH chooses to leave.
You @AlexaH have chosen to leave. I am sure that, although it will be difficult for him, it is also no doubt a great relief. Finally he has a home without the constant stress and strain of the difficult relationship between the two of you. I can imagine this feels very freeing to him.

Yet, you are still his wife, because he does not wish to divorce you, and you (although currently out of his house) are willing to reconcile with him and are not with another man.

So you two are married to each other, scripturally, whether you recognise it or not. But can't stand to live together. I don't envy either of you, that's a real mess to have to deal with.

So, because it's such a mess and there is no clear way to resolve it scripturally, both of you are trying to pass the buck by making it the other person's responsibility to instigate reconciliation, and to change to your expectations in order to allow that reconciliation. @Tesfalcon would possibly, reluctantly, be willing to reconcile if you asked to return @AlexaH, but isn't showing any desire to instigate that himself (no doubt because it's a great relief to him to have you out of the house). On the other hand, you are expecting him to contact you to try and reconcile, and simply say "he has my number".

With that attitude from the both of you, neither of you is going to try and reconcile with the other. It's just not going to happen because neither of you will be the one to pick up the phone in the first place.

The actual solution to this would be half way between 1 and 2 above, and involve compromises from both of you. If the two of you want to try and resolve this together, we're here to help you work through it if there is any way we can assist. But if one or both of you have zero desire to try and actually resolve this, there's nothing we can do.

Over to you both.
 
I did reach out to him. I have taken the first step. I'm not perfect or innocent and neither is he. I am trying to meet halfway but I can't do all the work myself either.
 
Her texts have been rcvd & replied to. They broke the dam for Sandra who finally mourned Alexa's departure. They were very close. This has been much harder on her.
 
AlexaH said:
I did reach out to him. I have taken the first step. I'm not perfect or innocent and neither is he. I am trying to meet halfway but I can't do all the work myself either.
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Then you’re in the wrong forum. You’ll want to find a more modern forum. We don’t accept the idea of “halfway”, especially not for wives. Are you his wife? If so then conform to his standards and start helping him accomplish his mission. If you don’t want to do those things then move on and see if you can find a weaker man who will conform to you.
 
Keith Martin said:
...if you're the leader, then you're responsible for everything and everyone over whom you claim leadership. ... By stating it that way, you are conflating leadership with creation. God created us, ... but rarely do his human creations fully submit to His leadership or even agree to surrender themselves to do so.
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So is God the leader or not?
Are those who claim to follow God & His leadership His responsibility or not?
Many atheists look at God's followers' actions, blame God as the ultimate Authority over them & reject His Authority.

...you are letting yourself off the hook for having failed to determine that Alexa would fully agree to submit to your leadership and now want to blame her for failing to do what she never agreed to do. ...
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We had that discussion. She said she would. She wanted a leader to submit to. Apparently, the only submission she was actually interested in was light BDSM, a game of submission which doesn't affect daily life. To say she was always, completely in rebellion would also be inaccurate. It was an ebb & flow sort of deal. Today it's all "Yes, sir". Tomorrow it's "ok". The next day it's "I don't wanna, & u can't make me." Loud discussion. Back to "Yes, sir." And so on, ad infinitum.

...If what you're describing about her is true, then we're not going to dispute that she bears some of the blame. However, within patriarchal leadership, the only approach that contains full power is to assume 100% of the responsibility for everything that happens in the family, which doesn't mean that no one else bears responsibility for hir actions -- just that the buck stops with you. ...
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Each person is to blame for their own actions. Period. As father and husband, I have charge over my wives & children. Thus God expects me to act in keeping w His design to maintain peace & harmony in my home & provide for their needs. That does NOT make me guilty for their conduct.

In the simple interaction which we call communication, I can only control my expression. I have no control over their expression. Text, like this, loses substantial levels of expression vs face-to-face. If 2 people are earnestly desiring to understand the other person, they'll find a way regardless of the obstacles. If one give 100% & the other gives 50%, it's going to fail even w fewer obstacles.

God doesn't sin, but He responds to our sin to both give immediate resolution to the immediate breach between people as well as ultimate resolution to the ultimate breach between us & Him. Thus I'm to blame for my sin, not Him.
 
Tesfalcon said:
Sandra kept threatening to go back to Mommy in the beginning. I threw the car keys at her & told her to go back to Mommy. She didn't catch them. She let them go past her & ran into my arms. She never threatened to leave again.
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So it was only a tactic to get her to stop, but Alexa seems to have gotten the impression that you wanted her to leave. @FollowingHim is right then, that this was a communication breakdown. I would advise that we at least make that clear to Alexa, that she can come back, but she needs to stop threatening to leave.
 
Instead of trying to reach halfway, be vocal but respectful when he "bludgeons" you, letting him know that what he said was hurtful. A woman's tears go a long way in melting the heart of a man.
 
AlexaH said:
I did reach out to him. I have taken the first step. I'm not perfect or innocent and neither is he. I am trying to meet halfway but I can't do all the work myself either.
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Don't try to meet halfway. That's not what I meant by compromises. This isn't a negotiation between the two of you, it's not equal. The compromises each of you will need to make are not directly comparable so cannot be weighed against each other.

@AlexaH, @Tesfalcon is the head of the marriage. He defines what standards of behaviour are acceptable for his wives. That's where you need to compromise - to go all the way to conforming with his expectations. Not half-way. All the way.

@Tesfalcon, @AlexaH is a different woman to Sandra. She clearly reacts differently to the same leadership style (e.g. the "run home to Mummy" situation). You will need to interact with her differently, and have different expectations of her. Not lesser expectations, but different (which may of course mean lesser in one area and greater in another). Furthermore, she will fail while learning to conform to these expectations. Finally - you don't seem to want her in your home at all, and that's the biggest thing you have to compromise on, actually accepting her back under any conditions.

@AlexaH, you also need to learn to look past the bludgeoning feeling you get when @Tesfalcon quotes scripture at you, and actually focus on the meaning of his words rather than how they make you feel.

@Tesfalcon, you need to listen to @AlexaH's concerns, and do what you can to address them.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Instead of trying to reach halfway, be vocal but respectful when he "bludgeons" you, letting him know that what he said was hurtful. A woman's tears go a long way in melting the heart of a man.
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Alexa is a Marine, daughter of a Sailor. Marine's don't cry. They get even.
 
FollowingHim said:
@Tesfalcon, @AlexaH is a different woman to Sandra. She clearly reacts differently to the same leadership style (e.g. the "run home to Mummy" situation). You will need to interact with her differently, and have different expectations of her. Not lesser expectations, but different (which may of course mean lesser in one area and greater in another). Furthermore, she will fail while learning to conform to these expectations. Finally - you don't seem to want her in your home at all, and that's the biggest thing you have to compromise on, actually accepting her back under any conditions.
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Sandra & I have been discussing those conditions. She was deeply wounded, & the Littles are also happy she's gone.

@Tesfalcon, you need to listen to @AlexaH's concerns, and do what you can to address them.
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1 Peter 4:11a
"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God;..."
 
I don't think that getting even with your commanding officer, follows the motto "Semper Fi". I did a little Army Reserve time back in '89, and was "bludgeoned" quite a bit by the Drill Sergeants, time and time again. I didn't have the choice to leave either. Sounds like she could go the route of "Sir, Yes Sir", or she can choose to be more vulnerable with you as her head. When I was in the military, there was no toleration for a soldier who kept his bunk as a pig-pen either.
 
Tesfalcon said:
FollowingHim said:
@Tesfalcon, you need to listen to @AlexaH's concerns, and do what you can to address them.
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1 Peter 4:11a
"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God;..."
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I am sure that, regardless of however many untruths or half-truths she may have said, she will have real concerns also about something. Nothing is ever entirely one-sided. Likely there are true concerns buried in this mess somewhere.
 
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