Can something be true without it being a law?
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Do all women need a "covering"? And what is a "covering"?
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1 Corinthians 11 is a very confusing passage and I am grateful that we have Eph. 5 to turn to when addressing God's established hierarchy. For this topic though, I think the following article is very relevant. I find it very convincing.
According to the article 1 Cor. 11:10 should read: 10. Therefore the woman is morally obligated to have authority on her head, because of the angels.
The article does not address specifically if that means women must have a covering or if it only applies to married women. If his translation is correct, I think it means wives must be under their husband's authority and single women should be willing to be under a husband's authority. Especially in the context provided in the article about the Lesbian women who shaved their heads in rebellion of their God given roles.
All of that to say, if the author's conclusions about 1 Cor. 11 are correct, and I currently believe he is, then covering is simply a descriptive term meaning "under authority" and it is a biblical term. Women are required to be willing to be under the authority of a husband, but I don't think singleness in and of itself is a violation of that principle. The reason for not being covered is important there. I don't see any command that men must ensure all women are covered or have authority over them. This is further supported by Jesus' statement regarding eunuchs. Singleness is an acceptable way to live for a select few.
Does 1 Corinthians 11 Require Women To Wear "Head Coverings" - Berean Patriot
Six pieces of context are required to fully understand this passage. 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 is a masterpiece of Biblical literature and...
www.bereanpatriot.com
Of course but that’s not the question. We’re trying to figure out what “covering” is in order to find out if it’s required. We talk about covering as being an imperative.
What about Shabbat? We are told not to do work on that day unless it is for a good deed.
Sorry fellas but your modern woman doesn't need you, she has her Snuggy™, Slanket™, bottle of Skinny Girl chardonnay and corporate dystopia reinforced social anxiety to keep her warm at night
Fair enough.
The translation of the text is accurate.
Are you suggesting my wives are not modern but are archaic and old?? Shall I send them to visit with a rusty scalpel to do a vasectomy?
Let’s start with the beginning.
Why did Yah create just Adam without also creating Eve from the get go? The way it was written is almost as if He didn’t consider that Adam would need a mate until after the fact.
In truth, I believe that He was making a statement.
Why did He create Adam? For fellowship with Himself.
Why did He create Eve? For Adam. Period.
There was never any equality intended, He chose to show that Eve was junior to Adam in how he created her and presented her to Adam. This was before the fall, it was never “corrected” by the death of our Savior. Only the products of the fall were affected by his death.
The concept of covering isn’t specifically stated, but it is an underlying foundation for the relationship between male and female.
My understanding of it is “protection plus”. It is much deeper and more complicated than simply protection. Cover is used a couple times in Scripture in Yah’s relation to man.
Deuteronomy 33:12 (KJV) [And] of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; [and the LORD] shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.
The Hebrew word used here is defined, in addition to cover, as to enclose, shelter, shield or surround.
As Yah would treat us, so should we treat our women.
Isaiah 22:17 (KJV) Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee.
A different Hebrew word is used here, but the meaning is similar, to cover, enwrap, wrap oneself, envelop oneself. The physical manifestation of this is to simply take your wife in your arms, but the emotion should go much deeper than a simple hug, she should feel protected and cared for.
When Ruth approached Boaz in private to offer him herself, she asked him to spread his skirt over her. She was asking him to cover her, not just have sex with her. Even though the specific word isn’t used.
Adam failed to cover Eve when it came to eating of the forbidden fruit.
Many scholars agree that the way that the story goes down in the Hebrew language was that Eve didn’t take the fruit to Adam, she just gave it to him because he was standing right there and had observed the whole thing.
He failed to speak up and protect her from making a bad decision. He allowed it and then joined her. It was later called Adam’s transgression even though Eve ate first.
In Numbers 30 we have the teaching that a daughter that makes a vow, no matter how strongly she makes it, is subject to her father’s acceptance of the vow. The same with a wife. The only exceptions are a widowed or divorced woman. There is no exception for the women who have left their fathers authority and are on their own. Those women weren’t to exist. In fact you see widows being sent back to their fathers, who would presumably pick the covering back up. Ex. Tamar.
In Isaiah 4:1, why are the seven women asking for his name? In order to take away their reproach (scorn, disgrace, shame)
Having his name would cover them.
What was their shame? It’s not spelled out, but they do state that being under his name removes it. Could it be anything besides singlehood? I reject that it is children that they are referring to, because they just specifically ask for his name.
(There used to be shame in spinsterhood, then shame in being a single mom, now there is no shame in anything. Isaiah 4:1 is when women become reacquainted with shame and decide to live a righteous life)
Yah speaks of being father to the fatherless, but I cannot find where He claims to be husband to all the single women. Yet that is what they have been taught to claim.
As great as the failings of men have been, show me the society that has succeeded where the women aren’t covered by men. As women become less covered, society disintegrates.
Why did Yah create just Adam without also creating Eve from the get go? The way it was written is almost as if He didn’t consider that Adam would need a mate until after the fact.
In truth, I believe that He was making a statement.
Why did He create Adam? For fellowship with Himself.
Why did He create Eve? For Adam. Period.
There was never any equality intended, He chose to show that Eve was junior to Adam in how he created her and presented her to Adam. This was before the fall, it was never “corrected” by the death of our Savior. Only the products of the fall were affected by his death.
The concept of covering isn’t specifically stated, but it is an underlying foundation for the relationship between male and female.
My understanding of it is “protection plus”. It is much deeper and more complicated than simply protection. Cover is used a couple times in Scripture in Yah’s relation to man.
Deuteronomy 33:12 (KJV) [And] of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; [and the LORD] shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.
The Hebrew word used here is defined, in addition to cover, as to enclose, shelter, shield or surround.
As Yah would treat us, so should we treat our women.
Isaiah 22:17 (KJV) Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee.
A different Hebrew word is used here, but the meaning is similar, to cover, enwrap, wrap oneself, envelop oneself. The physical manifestation of this is to simply take your wife in your arms, but the emotion should go much deeper than a simple hug, she should feel protected and cared for.
When Ruth approached Boaz in private to offer him herself, she asked him to spread his skirt over her. She was asking him to cover her, not just have sex with her. Even though the specific word isn’t used.
Adam failed to cover Eve when it came to eating of the forbidden fruit.
Many scholars agree that the way that the story goes down in the Hebrew language was that Eve didn’t take the fruit to Adam, she just gave it to him because he was standing right there and had observed the whole thing.
He failed to speak up and protect her from making a bad decision. He allowed it and then joined her. It was later called Adam’s transgression even though Eve ate first.
In Numbers 30 we have the teaching that a daughter that makes a vow, no matter how strongly she makes it, is subject to her father’s acceptance of the vow. The same with a wife. The only exceptions are a widowed or divorced woman. There is no exception for the women who have left their fathers authority and are on their own. Those women weren’t to exist. In fact you see widows being sent back to their fathers, who would presumably pick the covering back up. Ex. Tamar.
In Isaiah 4:1, why are the seven women asking for his name? In order to take away their reproach (scorn, disgrace, shame)
Having his name would cover them.
What was their shame? It’s not spelled out, but they do state that being under his name removes it. Could it be anything besides singlehood? I reject that it is children that they are referring to, because they just specifically ask for his name.
(There used to be shame in spinsterhood, then shame in being a single mom, now there is no shame in anything. Isaiah 4:1 is when women become reacquainted with shame and decide to live a righteous life)
Yah speaks of being father to the fatherless, but I cannot find where He claims to be husband to all the single women. Yet that is what they have been taught to claim.
As great as the failings of men have been, show me the society that has succeeded where the women aren’t covered by men. As women become less covered, society disintegrates.
I am getting a better idea of how folks use "covering" with respect to the husband/wife relationship. Is the covering (as a requirement) something that only is fulfilled if a woman becomes a concubine or wife? Like in Isaiah 4:1, is the implication that since these women are asking to take his name, they are requesting to submit as a concubine or wife?
Also, from the woman's point of view in selecting a man to cover her, what would be the essential criteria she should be considering? Does one man check the box as a viable cover while another may not?
BTW I love the verses Steve provided. I really do think that a woman can be blessed and receive spiritual protection from her husband, and I think these verses show how God protects us, and I do think that a husband, through obedience, can be enabled to protect his wife in ways that she would not be protected if she was not married.
Not knowing anything about someone other than they are a young single woman, I could reinforce that God loves marriage, and he provides many blessings through marriages he participates in. I would have to know more about her, such as whether she is a gossiper and a busybody who has been widowed, to tell her definitively that she must find a covering (concubine or wife-- my first question in this post?) to avoid a persistent state of spiritual untetheredness or rebellion.
Also, from the woman's point of view in selecting a man to cover her, what would be the essential criteria she should be considering? Does one man check the box as a viable cover while another may not?
BTW I love the verses Steve provided. I really do think that a woman can be blessed and receive spiritual protection from her husband, and I think these verses show how God protects us, and I do think that a husband, through obedience, can be enabled to protect his wife in ways that she would not be protected if she was not married.
Not knowing anything about someone other than they are a young single woman, I could reinforce that God loves marriage, and he provides many blessings through marriages he participates in. I would have to know more about her, such as whether she is a gossiper and a busybody who has been widowed, to tell her definitively that she must find a covering (concubine or wife-- my first question in this post?) to avoid a persistent state of spiritual untetheredness or rebellion.
When is doing a good deed work?
I don't think doing a good deed on rest-day, even if not a matter of life or death, is truly an "exception."
I think there are those who hide behind legalistic but false holiness to either practice evil or avoid doing the good their conscience calls them to do. Jesus was very good at identifying these folk, and Paul also, among others, emphasized this.
I think you misread what I posted or its meaning.
I was stating Keeping Sabbath is a Law and yet the exception is when you do a good deed. So a Law with an exception.
Maybe you could help my understanding if you gave me an example of a good deed that when performed on the Sabbath is a violation of Keeping Sabbath.
Then, I could consider that, in order for that good deed to manifest, an exception to the Law regarding Keeping Sabbath is required.
If no such example exists... then there is no exception.
Oh, and I'll reread your post to see what I might have previously misread.
Luke 13:14
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
But is there anywhere in Torah where it forbids healing on the Sabbath? It is possible that Jesus is not giving an exception, but rather in his capacity as Rabbi simply expounding the existing law. The Pharisees may have incorrectly thought Torah forbids healing on the Sabbath, and Jesus' point may be that healing is not "work" so was never covered by the law in the first place.
This is a bit of a sidetrack though, if you want to go into that in detail it's probably better elsewhere.
Not only do I like that answer, but I like the gentleness of it.
What is a covering
1st Corinthians 11 does not say what many think it says. Between doctrines of men and bad translations, we can get a poor understanding of it. It never talks about a physical (literal) covering other than the woman's hair. It is talking about authority and headship. Remember the context. Messiah is the head of man, and man is the head of woman, and Yahweh is the head of Messiah. If you don't believe me, go study when we first see Jews using head coverings. To anyone that thinks they are required, I will point you back to the Torah and Prophets. Show me one verse that they are required. Btw I have no quarrel with men who ask their women to cover. Its not biblically required but men are free to rule their own house.
Do we have scriptures that mention coverings?
Ezekiel 16
8¶And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time is a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness, And I swear to thee, and come in to a covenant with thee, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And thou dost become Mine
.
The spreading of the skirt over her is Him covering her.
Ruth 3
7And Boaz eateth and drinketh, and his heart is glad; and he goeth in to lie down at the end of the heap; and she cometh in gently, and uncovereth his feet, and lieth down.
8¶And it cometh to pass, at the middle of the night, that the man trembleth, and turneth himself, and lo, a woman is lying at his feet.
9And he saith, 'Who art thou?' and she saith, 'I am Ruth thy handmaid, and thou hast spread thy skirt over thy handmaid, for thou art a redeemer.'
10¶And he saith, 'Blessed art thou of Jehovah, my daughter; thou hast dealt more kindly at the latter end than at the beginning -- not to go after the young men, either poor or rich.
11And now, my daughter, fear not, all that thou sayest I do to thee, for all the gate of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman
.
Ruth is asking to have Boaz spread his covering over her.
Psalm 91
4With His pinion He covereth thee over, And under His wings thou dost trust, A shield and buckler is His truth
.
The word wing is the same Hebrew word as skirt. Either way that its translated into english shows us it's a covering.
Exodus 19
4Ye -- ye have seen that which I have done to the Egyptians, and I bear you on eagles' wings, and bring you in unto Myself
.
Again same Hebrew for wing/skirt
Exodus 25 and 37 show us the Cherubim use their wings to cover (protect) the mercy seat.
Deuteronomy 22
30¶'A man doth not take his father's wife, nor uncover his father's skirt
.
The father has his skirt covering the woman.
Deuteronomy 27
20¶'Cursed is he who is lying with his father's wife, for he hath uncovered his father's skirt, -- and all the people have said, Amen.
Deuteronomy 32
7Remember days of old -- Understand the years of many generations -- Ask thy father, and he doth tell thee; Thine elders, and they say to thee:
8In the Most High causing nations to inherit, In His separating sons of Adam -- He setteth up the borders of the peoples By the number of the sons of Israel.
9For Jehovah's portion is His people, Jacob is the line of His inheritance.
10He findeth him in a land -- a desert, And in a void -- a howling wilderness, He turneth him round -- He causeth him to understand -- He keepeth him as the apple of His eye.
11As an eagle waketh up its nest, Over its young ones fluttereth, Spreadeth its wings -- taketh them, Beareth them on its pinions; --
12Jehovah alone doth lead him, And there is no strange god with him
.
Psalm 17
8Keep me as the apple, the daughter of the eye; In shadow of Thy wings thou dost hide me
.
Psalm 36
7How precious is Thy kindness, O God, And the sons of men In the shadow of Thy wings do trust.
Psalm 57
1¶To the Overseer. -- 'Destroy not.' -- A secret treasure of David, in his fleeing from the face of Saul into a cave. Favour me, O God, favour me, For in Thee is my soul trusting, And in the shadow of Thy wings I trust, Until the calamities pass over
.
Psalm 61
4I sojourn in Thy tent to the ages, I trust in the secret place of Thy wings. Selah
.
Psalm 63
7For Thou hast been a help to me, And in the shadow of Thy wings I sing
.
H3671 - kānāp
̄wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt
wing
extremity
skirt, corner (of garment
)
For those interested, this is the same word used of when He commands us to where our tzitzit. He wants us to show that He has covered us. He is our covering.
1st Corinthians 11 does not say what many think it says. Between doctrines of men and bad translations, we can get a poor understanding of it. It never talks about a physical (literal) covering other than the woman's hair. It is talking about authority and headship. Remember the context. Messiah is the head of man, and man is the head of woman, and Yahweh is the head of Messiah. If you don't believe me, go study when we first see Jews using head coverings. To anyone that thinks they are required, I will point you back to the Torah and Prophets. Show me one verse that they are required. Btw I have no quarrel with men who ask their women to cover. Its not biblically required but men are free to rule their own house.
Do we have scriptures that mention coverings?
Ezekiel 16
8¶And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time is a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness, And I swear to thee, and come in to a covenant with thee, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And thou dost become Mine
.
The spreading of the skirt over her is Him covering her.
Ruth 3
7And Boaz eateth and drinketh, and his heart is glad; and he goeth in to lie down at the end of the heap; and she cometh in gently, and uncovereth his feet, and lieth down.
8¶And it cometh to pass, at the middle of the night, that the man trembleth, and turneth himself, and lo, a woman is lying at his feet.
9And he saith, 'Who art thou?' and she saith, 'I am Ruth thy handmaid, and thou hast spread thy skirt over thy handmaid, for thou art a redeemer.'
10¶And he saith, 'Blessed art thou of Jehovah, my daughter; thou hast dealt more kindly at the latter end than at the beginning -- not to go after the young men, either poor or rich.
11And now, my daughter, fear not, all that thou sayest I do to thee, for all the gate of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman
.
Ruth is asking to have Boaz spread his covering over her.
Psalm 91
4With His pinion He covereth thee over, And under His wings thou dost trust, A shield and buckler is His truth
.
The word wing is the same Hebrew word as skirt. Either way that its translated into english shows us it's a covering.
Exodus 19
4Ye -- ye have seen that which I have done to the Egyptians, and I bear you on eagles' wings, and bring you in unto Myself
.
Again same Hebrew for wing/skirt
Exodus 25 and 37 show us the Cherubim use their wings to cover (protect) the mercy seat.
Deuteronomy 22
30¶'A man doth not take his father's wife, nor uncover his father's skirt
.
The father has his skirt covering the woman.
Deuteronomy 27
20¶'Cursed is he who is lying with his father's wife, for he hath uncovered his father's skirt, -- and all the people have said, Amen.
Deuteronomy 32
7Remember days of old -- Understand the years of many generations -- Ask thy father, and he doth tell thee; Thine elders, and they say to thee:
8In the Most High causing nations to inherit, In His separating sons of Adam -- He setteth up the borders of the peoples By the number of the sons of Israel.
9For Jehovah's portion is His people, Jacob is the line of His inheritance.
10He findeth him in a land -- a desert, And in a void -- a howling wilderness, He turneth him round -- He causeth him to understand -- He keepeth him as the apple of His eye.
11As an eagle waketh up its nest, Over its young ones fluttereth, Spreadeth its wings -- taketh them, Beareth them on its pinions; --
12Jehovah alone doth lead him, And there is no strange god with him
.
Psalm 17
8Keep me as the apple, the daughter of the eye; In shadow of Thy wings thou dost hide me
.
Psalm 36
7How precious is Thy kindness, O God, And the sons of men In the shadow of Thy wings do trust.
Psalm 57
1¶To the Overseer. -- 'Destroy not.' -- A secret treasure of David, in his fleeing from the face of Saul into a cave. Favour me, O God, favour me, For in Thee is my soul trusting, And in the shadow of Thy wings I trust, Until the calamities pass over
.
Psalm 61
4I sojourn in Thy tent to the ages, I trust in the secret place of Thy wings. Selah
.
Psalm 63
7For Thou hast been a help to me, And in the shadow of Thy wings I sing
.
H3671 - kānāp
̄wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt
wing
extremity
skirt, corner (of garment
)
For those interested, this is the same word used of when He commands us to where our tzitzit. He wants us to show that He has covered us. He is our covering.
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Very interesting to read. Thank you.
Off-gridinwv
New Member
I disagree . The whole context of 1Cor.11 is a woman covering her long hair and if she doesn't then she should shave her head, but if it's shameful for a woman to have short hair like a man then she should cover. The statement in verse 15" for her hair is given her for a covering" does not mean that the hair is the covering but that the long hair is the incentive for a woman to cover, thus serving a twofold purpose of covering the beauty of her long hair and symbolizing man's authority over her
While that's your opinion and your welcome to it, that's not what the scripture says. Every matter is to be established by the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses. Provide the witnesses.