One Flesh - a biological perspective

[AbrahamSolomon]

You say it was debunked, but I will say many things are claimed to be debunked yet that does not make it so.

FollowingHim​

Administrator​

The idea of "one flesh" being children was discussed extensively here over the past few weeks. Start here to see the idea being proposed, follow the discussion to see all the arguments against it.

One Flesh - a biological perspective​

We have observed, in our life and others, that the wife takes on the genetic characteristics of her husband. And I don't think it's just through Microchimerism of pregnancies, especially considering how few pregnancies most people have.

biblicalfamilies.org
I understand that you may believe this, but I personally think that anyone who believes this idea simply hasn't thought through the implications properly. On close examination this idea simply cannot be correct. But read the other thread and comment there to take that issue further, let's not have the same debate twice.

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Once we die we are no longer husbands, wives, mothers or fathers we are just brothers and sisters.
So our souls don't become one nor does our own flesh as we are not able to be joined in that way.
You say it was debunked, but I will say many things are claimed to be debunked yet that does not make it so.

steve​

Is there any proof that becoming one cannot be reversed?

Reply:
Not that I know of other then a possible Covenant Breaking women cheating.
But, that might break the man and woman but I do not agree that it breaks the full meaning of 2 become 1 as in a child.

I will be reading all the post soon.

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Once we die we are no longer husbands, wives, mothers or fathers we are just brothers and sisters.
So our souls don't become one nor does our own flesh as we are not able to be joined in that way.
You say it was debunked, but I will say many things are claimed to be debunked yet that does not make it so.

The Revolting Man
There is no indication in scripture that any relationship other than one flesh experiences a transformation in Heaven.​

Reply:
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

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NickF​

As to this silliness...

I Believe that this becoming one is having kids, when a man and a woman come together they become one flesh.
That baby is made of two fleshes becoming one flesh and this can be done multiple times with more than one wife.
Also, both Husband and Wife are tied together because of that new one flesh for life.

My head hurts when I read things like this...

Once we die we are no longer husbands, wives, mothers or fathers we are just brothers and sisters.

#CitationNeeded

So our souls don't become one nor does our own flesh as we are not able to be joined in that way.

#CitationNeeded

You say it was debunked, but I will say many things are claimed to be debunked yet that does not make it so.

You can believe you are 7 feet tall, but that does not make it so. One flesh as written in scripture is simply two bodies being joined together in sexual copulation. Scripture does not say being one flesh is children. Being one flesh with a woman does not always result in a child, nor is birthing a child a requisite of one flesh. That's simply changing the definition to suit yourself and twisting scripture to fit your ideas. That's forbidden.

Reply: Maggie said I was setting next to you in the meeting and I said no I am sure that was not you or you have two different personalities.
I don't mind people disagreeing with me but your online personally is very rude.

 

[NickF]

Reply: Maggie said I was setting next to you in the meeting and I said no I am sure that was not you or you have two different personalities.​

I don't mind people disagreeing with me but your online personally is very rude.

Yep, you and Maggie came in and I invited you guys to sit next to me.

My personality is the same both online and in real life. I say the truth and speak bluntly.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Yep, you and Maggie came in and I invited you guys to sit next to me.

My personality is the same both online and in real life. I say the truth and speak bluntly.

Truth can also be talk about respectfully as well.
I think some men believe being rude makes them more of a man and in truth it makes them less.
Claim down and understand we all have a right to debate.

 

[NickF]

Truth can also be talk about respectfully as well.
I think some men believe being rude makes them more of a man and in truth it makes them less.
Claim down and understand we all have a right to debate.

Am perfectly claim and happy. I also think some men can think thinks they want to. And have opinion of whst the think.

Debate if you want. A king can defend his position. So where is you’re defence?

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Am perfectly claim and happy. I also think some men can think thinks they want to. And have opinion of whst the think.

Debate if you want. A king can defend his position. So where is you’re defence?

I don't have to puff my chest out.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

The term "One Flesh" is used frequently in scripture, and is usually interpreted spiritually. It is used as a synonym for "marriage", and seen as some sort of spiritual state that God causes two people to be in when they are married.

I have come to realise that this is the exact opposite of what the text actually says.

Let's examine the text for a minute:
English: One Flesh
Hebrew: echad basar (H259, H1320). Literally "one (united)" "meat".
Greek: heis sarx (G1520, G4561). Literally "one" "meat".

The words "basar" and "sarx" both very explicitly refer to soft bodily tissues - in other words, meat ("flesh"), including the muscle and internal organs. They are both translated "flesh" because it is precisely accurate.

In both Hebrew and Greek, this phrase explicitly states that the soft bodily tissues of the two people become united as one. It is a very physical statement. To spiritualise this, and take it as talking about some spiritual concept instead of a physical one, is to completely throw out the actual text, and substitute it with something entirely different.

In my opinion, the reason we spiritualise this is solely because it is blindingly obvious to us that when two people have sex, they are not instantly physically fused together. They still look like two separate individuals. It therefore makes no logical sense to us that they would now be physically one - our senses tell us that they are still physically two.

So, lacking the faith to believe the plain words of God, and instead believing our own physical senses to be more accurate than God, we throw away the plain meaning of what He said and substitute our own human logic, making up new meanings that seem more plausible to us. We ultimately claim that the two have become "spiritually one" in some way. We keep using the words "one flesh" to describe this but we assign an entirely different meaning to those words.

Here is a radical proposal: What if God was actually speaking the truth accurately, and we simply lacked the scientific knowledge to understand it?

In the last couple of decades, biology has revealed many things about what happens when a man and woman "cleave together" sexually. To recognise the significance of these discoveries you must keep in mind the fact that the human body contains as many cells of microorganisms (such as bacteria and fungi) as it does human cells. And these microorganisms are essential for our bodies. They are a part of our bodies, and our bodies would not function without them (digestion for instance is virtually entirely done by microbes). They are collectively called the "microbiome"

1. When a couple have sex, microorganisms are exchanged between the penis and the vagina, so the microbes living on the genitals of a couple become strongly related to each other since they are exchanged so frequently. They are related so closely that some scientific papers refer to them collectively as "the seminovaginal microbiome".
   https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0923250815000613
2. We also have many microorganisms living in our mouths, both beneficial and harmful. Intimate kissing obviously means that saliva moves from one persons mouth to the other. Couples have more similar bacteria in their mouths to each other than to other people, and the more frequently a couple kisses the more similar their oral microbiome.
   https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2049-2618-2-41
   The oral microbiome is swallowed into the gut and may affect the gut microbiome.
3. People who have anal sex (mainly homosexual men) also exchange microbes between their penis and their partners gut. Some recent research suggests that this changes the microbiome of the gut, and could make homosexual men more susceptible to disease.
   https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1007611
4. The microbiome in your gut can even affect how you think. This is called the brain-gut-microbiome axis, and is a topic of active research. As one paper states: "Although research has demonstrated that the gut microbiota can impact upon cognition and a variety of stress-related behaviours, including those relevant to anxiety and depression, we still do not know how this occurs."
   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28804508/

That's all from research that has been conducted within the last 10 years. This is a very new field of knowledge and the above statements only scratch the surface. Expect far more discoveries over the next few years.

As sex and kissing change your microbiome, and the microbiome affects everything, even how you think, it is possible that sex and kissing could change almost anything about you! We just haven't discovered the details yet.

In other words, sex causes the soft tissues of a man and woman to become more and more similar over time. Or, you could say, they literally become "one flesh".

Why can't it be both spiritually & physically?

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

The two SHALL BECOME (future tense as I understand it) one flesh. I am a very simple dude and not a deep theologian nor scientist. But did a shallow dive on the word "flesh" and came up with this- it means a body and that means to this simple gentile a baby. Why cant we just insert the word BABY in place of the word flesh and call it good. The old Hebrew mind didn't know about the microbiomes of the mouth and gut but he did know the activity made a baby. Are we making it too complex? I am all for the creation of the one flesh and have participated in a fair amount of "sharing" but is not the sharing but the creating. The wonder-full aspect of two entirely separate genetic strands zipping together to create an entirely unique entity is mind-boggling. Yay God!

Sound right to me!

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Then a gay couple can become one flesh! Yay for the gays, boo for the lesbian because they don't have an outie. (now THAT's absurd)

Well if kissing and changing of bodily fluids they can kiss and rub each other together.
I think so far I just see people thinking and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

What could Becoming 1 Flesh Mean?

When I marry a woman everything she is and she owns becomes 100% mine.
She joins my house and I am not just talking a building or space I mean my property.
I am her lord and master and chief and King over everything!
She no longer get to do as she wants, but as I want and must Obey 100%.
We become 1 in all things as I am King and she must ask me in how we do everything.

We have kids and our Kids are part of me and part of her, but they are my Children and I am their King and Lord!

I understand this DNA possible being that we are joined together as one or becoming one person who knows maybe on some level.
Some of it might be possible, but none of that is a fact that we can say is facts and that G-d mean DNA between them.

What is most likely Possible then DNA is a Simple Baby being made even if the DNA is right as well.

 

[NickF]

Where scripturally do you get the idea you are a king? Can you show me a verse where all husbands are Kings? Didn't YHWH say that His people would regret asking for a king? You have an inordinate ego to proclaim your kingship. If you are a king, please correct me and show me. I'm sure everyone is interested to hear from whence you derive your kingship.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Where scripturally do you get the idea you are a king? Can you show me a verse where all husbands are Kings? Didn't YHWH say that His people would regret asking for a king? You have an inordinate ego to proclaim your kingship. If you are a king, please correct me and show me. I'm sure everyone is interested to hear from whence you derive your kingship.

Nick, I seen a video of you and you looked like a high school kid or in his mid 20's.
You look like Wolverine in you photo and like a high school or college kid and you even sound young.
I think you want to be seen as a tough guy and show your manliness and this forum gives you that feeling.
But Nick real men can talk to each other as men and not need to puff their chest.

If you do not know Every Man is The King in His Own House then you are lost and need to read The Bible more.
Adam was set over Eve from day one and every Man is her Head and Her King.

Here is some Bible Verses I put together to explain The Biblical way for Men and Women.

Shalom.

THE BIBLICAL ORDER OF MEN AND WOMEN IN THE FAMILY AND THE CHURCH

THE BIBLICAL ORDER OF MEN AND WOMEN IN THE FAMILY AND THE CHURCH - UOJMJ Mans First Job: Genesis 2:15 King James Version (KJV) 15 And the L-rd G-d took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Womens Role: Genesis 2:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 And the L-rd...

www.biblicalfamilies.org

 

[NickF]

Nick, I seen a video of you and you looked like a high school kid or in his mid 20's.
You look like Wolverine in you photo and like a high school or college kid and you even sound young.
I think you want to be seen as a tough guy and show your manliness and this forum gives you that feeling.
But Nick real men can talk to each other as men and not need to puff their chest.

If you do not know Every Man is The King in His Own House then you are lost and need to read The Bible more.
Adam was set over Eve from day one and every Man is her Head and Her King.

Here is some Bible Verses I put together to explain The Biblical way for Men and Women.

Shalom.

Thanks! I do try to take care of the body I’ve been given. And I appreciate the compliment on my photo but I’m into women, not men. So don’t go overboard with the compliments. I’ll get weird if you keep that up.

I’m not really that tough. I don’t post videos of myself lifting weights. I don’t need to puff my chest despite your claim I keep doing that. Just because I challenge you to back up your claims with scripture does not constitute “puffing” my chest. That’s just expected when you start trying to teach other men. You’ve gotten the exact same treatment from all the other men here. Show with scripture proof for your claims. If you’re uncomfortable with that then I understand. But don’t project your insecurities on others.

I must be lost, can you help this weak lowly boy out and post your scripture that shows all men are kings because they took a woman?

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Thanks! I do try to take care of the body I’ve been given. And I appreciate the compliment on my photo but I’m into women, not men. So don’t go overboard with the compliments. I’ll get weird if you keep that up.

I’m not really that tough. I don’t post videos of myself lifting weights. I don’t need to puff my chest despite your claim I keep doing that. Just because I challenge you to back up your claims with scripture does not constitute “puffing” my chest. That’s just expected when you start trying to teach other men. You’ve gotten the exact same treatment from all the other men here. Show with scripture proof for your claims. If you’re uncomfortable with that then I understand. But don’t project your insecurities on others.

I must be lost, can you help this weak lowly boy out and post your scripture that shows all men are kings because they took a woman?

I've have shown you men are The Authority and even Paul said Wives are under her Husband's Laws. You might not think this but you have a Napoleon Complex and that is not a healthy thing to be, I post my workout videos because to me that is what I enjoy as I hate football, baseball, soccer and most sports. But you acting the way you do in mocking people is a bully not a man and I know you want to been seen as a Tough and Masculate man, but again being respectful and saying something like. "Can you show some proof" and I'd day it's in that link a King/Complete Leader/Master of Everything in House is The Same as King and Lord of All that is His. But I'm not on here trying to bully people just talk and debate ideas and views. The whole idea of DNA mutations is far from being 1 Flesh vs a Simple Baby! Yet you mocked me for stating the most simple view.

Also saying you look much small in person is in no way of saying I think you are nice looking or that I would be homosexal, you really need to think G-dly and not sick and twisted as thinking or posting that.

You seemed like a nice young guy and very polite, when Maggie said it was you I said there is no possible way that was you. Never in a million years I would have known that was you. But I was completely wrong, now you could hear what I'm saying realize where you are wrong or just continue being an internet though guy.

 

[The Revolting Man]

@The Revolting Man​

There is no indication in scripture that any relationship other than one flesh experiences a transformation in Heaven.​

Reply:
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Yes, that’s what I was talking about. The one flesh relationship, we’ll call it marriage to simplify the conversation, changes in Heaven, as indicated by the passage of scripture you helpfully provided. We have no indication that any other earthly relationship experiences a similar morning though. That was my entire point.

 

[NickF]

Thats fine bud, you can be a king. Although I see a scriptural difference between kingship and authority to lead a family.

The verses you put in that mashup of scripture say zero about kingship.

I still think it’s silly. And equally silly and childish to insist I’m being a bully because I ask for proof of your claims. Does nobody ever challenge you? Is it so difficult to prove your claims that some words typed on a screen threaten you so much that it’s bullying?

If that’s puffing my chest then man, I just don’t know what to do. I mean sheesh, there are women on here bolder and less threatened by my asking for scriptural proof.

 

[NickF]

I’m wondering now if I should change my screen name to Wolverine. That’s quite a compliment. I always thought he had a puffed chest. Probably from the steroids but still.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I've have shown you men are The Authority and even Paul said Wives are under her Husband's Laws. You might not think this but you have a Napoleon Complex and that is not a healthy thing to be, I post my workout videos because to me that is what I enjoy as I hate football, baseball, soccer and most sports. But you acting the way you do in mocking people is a bully not a man and I know you want to been seen as a Tough and Masculate man, but again being respectful and saying something like. "Can you show some proof" and I'd day it's in that link a King/Complete Leader/Master of Everything in House is The Same as King and Lord of All that is His. But I'm not on here trying to bully people just talk and debate ideas and views. The whole idea of DNA mutations is far from being 1 Flesh vs a Simple Baby! Yet you mocked me for stating the most simple view.

Also saying you look much small in person is in no way of saying I think you are nice looking or that I would be homosexal, you really need to think G-dly and not sick and twisted as thinking or posting that.

You seemed like a nice young guy and very polite, when Maggie said it was you I said there is no possible way that was you. Never in a million years I would have known that was you. But I was completely wrong, now you could hear what I'm saying realize where you are wrong or just continue being an internet though guy.

I agree with @NickF . I’d like to see your proof. Those links you posted don’t demonstrate kingship. They certain don’t use the word king.

 

[steve]

I’m wondering now if I should change my screen name to Wolverine. That’s quite a compliment. I always thought he had a puffed chest. Probably from the steroids but still.

Not in anybodies wildest imagination.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

The most simplest things fly over so many heads.

 

[NickF]

The most simplest things fly over so many heads.

Something we both agree on!

Listen bud, if nobody agrees with you on this thing, perhaps it's not that everyone else is getting it wrong. Maybe you are either creating a strange and unnatural idea, or perhaps you are failing to communicate clearly and effectively.

Despite your belief I'm bullying you, I am seriously trying to help you.
Scripture does not support the idea that one flesh means creating a child. If it did, then barren women could not be one flesh with their man. Your idea is just not logical. And you have not thought out the idea to it's conclusion. You like the idea so believe it must be.

A man can be the leader and absolute authority in his home and with his woman/women and children and not also be a king. Accordingly a man can be unmarried and childless and be a king. The status of kingship is independent of marital status. It is a different responsibility. You might mean a man is "like" a king in his authority but being "like" something is not being that thing. A man can be "like" a president in his authority but not be the president. Does that make sense?