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To breath you must inhale AND exhale.
To be a Godly family, wives submit AND husbands love.
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Male Headship
- Thread starter DeathIsNotTheEnd
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To breath you must inhale AND exhale.
To be a Godly family, wives submit AND husbands love.
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Yes, in reference to the spiritual authority God has arranged, but to feel God's love is so wonderful.
Sometimes I wonder in these discussions about love, or the need for it, this comes to mind.
2 Corinthians 9:6 6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully4 will also reap bountifully.
I think you've reinforced @ZecAustin's point. It's worth asking why, if two things closely parallel each other, we routinely invoke the first without the second but react very sensitively if someone invokes the second without the first.
My reference to acting sensitively in this regard is aimed not at a remark from anyone in particular but rather a pattern observable across American culture. Juxtaposition of "love" and "submission" within a discussion tends strongly to elicit this curious response. This tells us something about ourselves, and we each do well to ask, within ourselves, what that thing is.
It may not be a matter I want to discuss with just anyone, but I don't feel I can dismiss it, either.
Maybe they're not really parallel. Or maybe something else is at work.
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I must not be doing a very good job in trying to relay my point. Maybe my use of the word 'equation' messed things up. No I don't consider the two as parallel functions. They are wholly independent of each other, however they most function together to fulfil a higher purpose.
They only reason they are combined is because of that purpose but they also have a purpose within themselves. Inhaling needs to do its job. Exhaling needs to do it's job. Wives need to do their jobs and husbands theirs.
However, the interesting thing though, is the job of the husband is spelled out in quite some detail which leads me to believe the concern from God is more on the husband than the wife. But yet all the focus we do seems to be on the wife first and whatever the husband does is secondary.
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Go back and look. Most of what is discussed in regards to this topic is about wife submission. But yet when the subject of a husbands responsibly is brought forth all manner of things get out of order. But only by a limited few it seems though.
Based on the substantial difference between these two takes on the conversation, I think this is a matter of perception. Some people are very focussed on restoring patriarchy, and every time someone qualifies that with love they see it as trying to backpedal from scripture. While others are very concerned about those cases where men do take patriarchy as a justification for abuse, perceive long discussions on submission as unbalanced, and feel the need to inject points about a husband's responsibility to love in order to ensure that all readers see the full picture. Both are reasonable viewpoints to take in the right context. But in practice, people tend to be focussed more on one than the other due to their personal backstory / current context / personality. And things we are uncomfortable with stand out more in a conversation than things we are comfortable with. Put this together, and two people can read the same conversation and decide that it is over-focussed on two completely opposite topics. Same goes for political discussions, when one person can think the same conversation pushed capitalism more than socialism, and another can think the opposite.
We had an excessively long discussion about the husbands duty within the family including love and talked almost nothing about the wife’s responsibility in that thread. This thread is titled “Male Headship” @EternalDreamer specifically asked for advice about helping his wife understand it.
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"Most of what is discussed in regards to this topic is about wife submission."
Was the statement I made. I wasn't referring to any other, or all discussions on this forum about this subject. Just participating in the discussion topic already on this thread.
I take @FollowingHim s assessment of the polarization going on here. Patriarchy is the family structure that most be in place for the world to function correctly. But the structure of patriarchy most operate within the realm of love (not some sappy romantic love), real love from within ones spirit, for it to function as God intended.
By the way, these are my views and how I choose to lead my family. I have no judgement about any other man and his leading of his family.
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I was thinking about this subject a couple of days ago. As I see the scriptures, children submit to their parents, wife submits to husband, husband submits to Christ and Christ submits to His Father. My thoughts took me to the position of pastor. Where does he fit in? I have seen pastors that thought they were our Daddy and took too much authority over a mans life. So much so, I started wondering if that pastors control and the husbands could be lumped into male over male dominance, a form of sodimite relationship without physical touch.
Then I have seen a pastor who has allowed himself to be broken by the Holy Spirit and would strived to only do what he saw the Father in heaven do.
So my question, in the role of male headship, where does a pastor fall in a biblical hierarchy?
Then I have seen a pastor who has allowed himself to be broken by the Holy Spirit and would strived to only do what he saw the Father in heaven do.
So my question, in the role of male headship, where does a pastor fall in a biblical hierarchy?
I don’t think he has authority. He is a teacher not a master. The husband answers directly to God and not any earthly authority...
I agree with you. But it still leaves a question. The Bible talks about ministries (many call it the five fold ministry) of pastor, teacher, evangelist, prophet and apostle. As you stated, the husband answers directly to God. And you’ve probably seen abuses in all of these offices, but other than teaching, what is the pastors role?
Pastors
Thayer's Definition
Thayer's Definition
- a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
- in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow
- in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow
- metaph.
- the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church
- of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
- of kings and princes
A shepherd in the Near East was responsible for watching out for enemies trying to attack the sheep, defending the sheep from attackers, healing the wounded and sick sheep, finding and saving lost or trapped sheep, loving them, and sharing their lives and to earn their trust.
- of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
- the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church
Shepherd of the local assembly. So his influence would be on how folks relate to one another within that local assembly...
I really like this quote. Makes a lot of sense to me. I guess I’m ready to get back to ‘Male Headship’.
One thing that stood out to me is that "you can't convince her or make her like it. You goal has has been to simply keep loving her. " You will never convince her. Only God can do that. When my husband first bought up the subject, I was so against it. Yes, keep loving her through this. It did take me a while through prayer and scripture. One day, my husband told me to get on a FB group with Christian Single Moms and also to get involved. My eyes started opening to the struggles these women were going through. God started opening my eyes. Off topic but you can't force a person to stop an addiction but the person has to come to their own conclusion to quit. Pray for your wife that her eyes be opened and God intervenes if it be His will.Thank you
I am not really trying to pursue poly just for its own sake. I honestly never thought that, although it was on my heart, God would bring it about. I thought I would never meet someone who would love me enough to want to share. But I did. I met her because she was going through a hard place spiritually and I tried to help her see God's love and presence in the darkness. I started just being friends, and although I was attracted to her I thought that was all it would ever be. At the same time my wife and I had talked about poly and although she didnt want it for us, she acknowledged the Biblical nature of it. Fast forward 6 months or so and the second told me she loved me and wanted to follow and submit to me as a wife, and that if I couldnt then she would spend her life single, loving me from afar, because she felt God had called her to be with me. I mean, that is such a God thing! If I had approached her first or anything had happened differently we would not be where we are.
Yes, the first wife is still upset. We have met with a few people but she still has her hangups. There is nothing I can do to convince her or make her like it. So my goal has been to simply keep loving her, to seek a closer relationship with her, and to be a better husband. Because what God has spoke to myself, the second, and a few mentors is that we are married spiritually, and it would be divorce for me to abandon the second. So since it IS happening, the first wife and I are working to get through it and find unity. She has asked to do some counseling to help her learn how to respect and submit to me better even when she disagrees or dislikes my decision (like poly). Im not sure how it will go, but I pray it will be a good step forward.
You're still hanging on to the base fallacy. Breathing is a bad analogy. Marriage isn't a two part function that falls apart if one of the stages isn't completed.
It's more like one of those old pump handle rail road carts. It will run better if both sides are pumping but one side can get the job done.
God's purpose is for God to be the head of all relationships. Then comes man, second is wife, third is the children. A man is supposed to be the leader of his family and guide his family. Now if the wife disagrees with the husband in any situation, then I would think that the woman would have to give a reason and a reasonably one at that but still the decision will fall to the husband. Now the husband still needs to lovingly guide his wife. He cannot though say at any point that his way is going to be the way it should be and your going to abide by it. No, that is not the way to approach a woman. Men need to have wisdom on how to approach women because we are very sensitive creatures and need gentle guidance. When I disagree with my husband on a subject, he will kindly tell me that I need to trust him and he will never lead me down the wrong road. Yep, that is when I accept his gentle guidance and move on.
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Are you doing this on purpose?
You have got to be the most unfriendly person here. Why couldn't you just say, hey nice analogy but what about this one, and state yours?
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