Fools rush in where angels fear to bed...

[The Duke Of Marshall]

1. I will not look without my wife's knowledge.
2. I will not move a woman into my home within too short of a time.
3. I will not see her on a first face to face without my wife being present.
4. I will not marry this woman without her going to a retreat and meeting the BF people so they can counsel us and that she has a PM friend network OUTSIDE the family.
5. I will not have any established contact without my wife's knowledge.
6. I will have at least one other man from BF that will be copied on all email, correspondence, and will act as my wingman to catch me if I am "in the flesh" too soon or not keeping level headed, and I will call him each week to update him on my wife, myself and my potential.

I think that's great about some guidelines to follow. A lot of people could really learn from what you have posted here. The only ones I wouldn't really do myself are numbers 3 and maybe 6. As long as my wife knows that I'm looking for, talking to, and going to meet another lady I would be more inclined to have the first meet up with just her and I. And then have the ladies meet a little while after that. Number 6 is up in the air because some men would need that where as others wouldn't. I would say that would be on a base by base situation. But if any gentleman here is in need of someone like that then I'll volunteer to be your wingman.

 

[Isabella]

Perhaps telephone contact would be enough of a requirement for number 3?

Also number 6 would bother me on the basis of privacy, I really wouldn't like anyone reading my emails, no, not even the wife, there should be a little bit of privacy to allow a relationship to be experienced on its own merits, this includes the eventual meeting between the women, their relationship should be allowed to develop at it's own pace without the presence of the man muddying the (emotional) waters, only when all are happy with the situation should anything progress further .

Regarding the special icon thing, I belong to a online group which has two separate lists, one was for people you had met in person only and the other one was people you have had other personal contact with, like telephone or video messaging. This way people had a better idea of who was a real person and also who was willing to put themselves out there and be part of the community. It was very useful actually.

Bels

 

[DaPastor]

I will not look without my wife's knowledge.
I will not move a woman into my home within too short of a time.
I will not see her on a first face to face without my wife being present.
I will not marry this woman without her going to a retreat and meeting the BF people so they can counsel us and that she has a PM friend network OUTSIDE the family.
I will not have any established contact without my wife's knowledge.
I will have at least one other man from BF that will be copied on all email, correspondence, and will act as my wingman to catch me if I am "in the flesh" too soon or not keeping level headed, and I will call him each week to update him on my wife, myself and my potential.

Hello,

When I was a young believer I fell into a movement known as the "Discipleship Movement," the similarities of this list to their list is uncanny. Of course, they did not advocate polygyny during that day, but they had oversight over all relationships.

So their list would be more like:

I will not look for a relationship without my leader's knowledge and approval
I will get permission to pursue a dating relationship
I will not date without a chaperone.
I will not marry her without her being a part of our group
I will not marry her without the counsel of leadership
I will allow my leaders to know every aspect of this relationship

Did people violate these rules? Yes! Many times rules like these actually promote the very things they are attempting to prevent. Human nature is naturally "aroused" by "laws." These rules made people feel like they were in control of the situation, but human nature will either find a way around them or turn them into a pseudo righteousness - a self righteous legalism. Remember the Pharisees!? They made rules about everything. Even the Law didn't regulate all aspects of relationships.

Certainly, I believe that one is free to create their own guidelines, but not having these guidelines does not make you unholy, wrong, or immoral; and having these guidelines doesn't make one more holy, right, or moral. They are merely self imposed guidelines.

Here are my thoughts about these rules based upon clear Scripture teaching and example:

*I will not look without my wife's knowledge.

First of all, if a husband and wife believe in polygyny, the husband has the liberty to be in a "state of looking." With that said, each family should decide together what "looking" means for their family. Some families may agree that the husband has total freedom to date until he finds someone that he would like to introduce to the family for further consideration. Others may decide that the husband can go on one date, but must introduce the potential before any further dates. However, I would suggest that any husband that believes in polygyny is always in the "state of looking," even if he hides those thoughts from his wife.

In should be pointed out from a pure Scriptural position that Scripture does not require any husband to ask permission from his wife concerning courting or marriage (This is only for very secure and mature families). It is out of his love and consideration to his wife and family that he lay down this prerogative (1 Cor. 6:12; Col. 3:19). Most here would be offended how wives were acquired by all the Godly patriarchs in the Bible! It would be interesting to hear their perspective!

*I will not move a woman into my home within too short of a time.

"Too short time" is something that can only be defined by each family. This is the age old argument "Does long courtship guarantee successful marriage?" I suppose one could ask the author "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" to see his perspective.

Recently, I read some interesting studies that suggest that longer (25 months) exclusive type courtships (those where each partner is not dating others) relate to longer marriages. However, even longer general courtships (36 months) actually lead to shorter marriages. It should be recognized that this is a study of 126 couples that have been married less than 20 years. How one can acquire solid conclusions on such a small cross section of society is beyond me. It seems to me that one would need to study two or three generations of thousands of people representing a vast cross section of people to reach any solid conclusions. In other words, it would take a hundred year study to really determine the answers to this one.

There are many things to be said about this topic, both pro and con, but the bottom line issue is the security of the present family and the core values of everyone concerned. If the core values are firmly rooted in covenant, Scriptural authority, and living for God's glory, a family will not only make it but will thrive whether it is a short courtship or long courtship (both having pros and cons).

*I will not see her on a first face to face without my wife being present.

IMHO, this is based on two sets of possible insecurities. One, the present wife is afraid that a person might actually follow through on another marriage. Two, a man who is very weak in the flesh and doesn't trust himself. Some may protests - "this is being accountable!" Well, there are other ways of being accountable that creating this kind of drama. I really do not think that most women would appreciate this maneuver at all. It would be the equivalent of taking one's mother to the movies on a first date.

*I will not marry this woman without her going to a retreat and meeting the BF people so they can counsel us and that she has a PM friend network OUTSIDE the family.

Personal choice! Don't misunderstand me, Scripture says that there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors, but some people replace insecurity with a counselor. Counselors are to be used wisely and cautiously. Ultimately, the family needs to assume full responsibility for their decisions. Furthermore, the counseling could be based upon personal opinion, not Scripture, and one may find themselves going in the direction of the counselor instead of the Spirit. I certainly believe in counseling, but it should be merely used as a possible sounding board - nothing more and nothing less. The final authority for all faith and practice is the Word of God!

I do think that healthy relationships are important, but a friend network should be natural, generally speaking, not programmed.

*I will not have any established contact without my wife's knowledge.

Again, I think this is a family decision. If one thinks this will help their scenario, great!

*I will have at least one other man from BF that will be copied on all email, correspondence, and will act as my wingman to catch me if I am "in the flesh" too soon or not keeping level headed, and I will call him each week to update him on my wife, myself and my potential.

IMHO, the email idea is simply a bad idea - there is just no other way to put it. Most women would be extremely offended by this kind of "exposure" to personal conversation. An accountability partner that you check in with who asks 10 hard questions for each contact may be a better plan.

I should end this by saying that if one decides to do these things, the Scripture does not forbid it, and so one certainly has the freedom to implement it. Just don't make it a "holy," "the right way," "the correct way" kind of guideline. It is merely your family's guideline - nothing more, and nothing less.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

An accountability partner that you check in with who asks 10 hard questions for each contact may be a better plan.I should end this by saying that if one decides to do these things, the Scripture does not forbid it, and so one certainly has the freedom to implement it. Just don't make it a "holy," "the right way," "the correct way" kind of guideline. It is merely your family's guideline - nothing more, and nothing less.

I think this is the crux of the matter here.

Some people are less mature. Other people are more mature. But all people need people. The point I think that is so important is a relational connection. I think that was Ignatius' point, i.e. people need to have a relational connection to someone, such as their shepherd or someone spiritually mature, someone who they have a trust relationship with, someone they know is truly solid in CHARACTER and one who truly LOVES them and is out for their good.

God himself lives in community and thus I think we too, to be safe, will live in community and will place around ourselves someone or several someones who can give us objective, biblical, and spiritual insight as we seek to live an honorable life for God.

Two dangers exist in this:
(1) Pride and self sufficiency where people claim they do not need any help in their life or relationships
(2) Legalism and lording it over others where those on the outside try an force their will on another when it may not be an absolute requirement in Scripture.

Somewhere in between those two extremes is a healthy balance of life in the Spirit and in the fruit of the Spirit.

A journey indeed it is though.

 

[Paul not the apostle]

Just for clarification, my time is limited, so when I posted the above list, it was just a catalyst for discussion and does not mean that I think that list is some kind of master list.

Simply broad sweeping suggestions.

I know for a fact that at retreats that we have been to that a man will say in the men's group that he and his wife are ready and looking, and in the women's group the wife says that she is not ready and that they are not looking. The accountability ones are of the essence of having someone else to advise you in your journey, someone unbias that can tell you if you are off track, and with this fellowship being spread out, copying emails or just simple once a week phone calls can be a good thing.

Please don't read too much into the list, it was only quick thoughts typed out on a forum.

Also, the not meeting face to face alone thing is based on the number of stories that I know of where the man and potential end up in less than honorable circumstances physically at their first meeting, or the man proposes marriage at the first meeting without his wife even knowing he was going to do that.

Of course, I also know of a first meeting between husband, wife, and potential where the husband and potential were intimate without the wife knowing because the wife said it was ok for the two of them to go pick up lunch together so they could spend that time alone. They shared more than a slice of pizza and when the truth came out months later, it nearly destroyed the marriage. Anyway...

There is no perfect remedy or plan, just a basic thought was all, and I don't believe I intended to imply or did imply that any man that did not participate was less of a catch or should be looked negatively upon. It really comes down to establishing a pattern of being a legitimate man, or family. Am I known in the poly community, is my wife going to jump a cliff if I do this, do other people know what my temperament is? These are all things that I would want to have some outside input on if I were a single woman, that is all.

Any law or rule is not made for the honorable, only those without restraint that offend or harm others. A real man would not need any accountability or anyone else to give him credibility. However, the OP was about negative situations, and my response was an effort to get some thoughts out on how to set some kind of loose agreement of standard for this fellowship. When we consider the type of view that the world has on this lifestyle, showing a structure or outward sign of how seriously we honor ALL ladies in our hearts and minds is not a bad testimony.

 

[DaPastor]

Some people are less mature. Other people are more mature. But all people need people. The point I think that is so important is a relational connection. I think that was Ignatius' point, i.e. people need to have a relational connection to someone, such as their shepherd or someone spiritually mature, someone who they have a trust relationship with, someone they know is truly solid in CHARACTER and one who truly LOVES them and is out for their good.

Having my core planted in covenant theology, you will probably not find anyone with stronger convictions than I of the importance of the church and the interconnection of those relationships. However, I think that although Ignatius may have had good motives for what he said, I believe that it is fundamentally against the tenor of Scripture.

Is it important that Elders guide, teach, counsel and love those who they have been given charge over - absolutely. That is quite different, however, than controlling, moderating, or assuming responsibility for all the "romantic" relationships in the body.

God himself lives in community and thus I think we too, to be safe, will live in community and will place around ourselves someone or several someones who can give us objective, biblical, and spiritual insight as we seek to live an honorable life for God.

I certainly agree, but IMHO, this is done through a local church setting not from an para-church setting. It is not that I am anti-para church, it is that I am very pro local church. Para church settings take on a life of their own and really, quite Biblically, fall outside of true Biblical community (as set up in Scripture) and balanced discipleship.

Many people avoid the local church because they cannot truly handle relationships. I used to share when I was pastoring to the congregation "God brought you here to rub you the wrong way; to mature you; to help you grow through relational issues; to sanctify you."

Two dangers exist in this:
(1) Pride and self sufficiency where people claim they do not need any help in their life or relationships
(2) Legalism and lording it over others where those on the outside try an force their will on another when it may not be an absolute requirement in Scripture.

Somewhere in between those two extremes is a healthy balance of life in the Spirit and in the fruit of the Spirit.

I would generally agree. However, I don't see it necessarily as that black and white. Not everyone who is self sufficient is walking in pride, nor is every control necessarily legalism. My heart is that we all learn to lay down our own philosophies, and allow the Word of God to be our final authority in our lives. I wish I was there, but it is a lifelong process.

 

[DaPastor]

Just for clarification, my time is limited, so when I posted the above list, it was just a catalyst for discussion and does not mean that I think that list is some kind of master list.

Simply broad sweeping suggestions.

I know for a fact that at retreats that we have been to that a man will say in the men's group that he and his wife are ready and looking, and in the women's group the wife says that she is not ready and that they are not looking. The accountability ones are of the essence of having someone else to advise you in your journey, someone unbias that can tell you if you are off track, and with this fellowship being spread out, copying emails or just simple once a week phone calls can be a good thing.

Paul, I think I understand your heart. All I am trying to do is to get people to think these things out more.

Yes, it is true that the men are ready to go, and the wives are waiting to get ready to go. This is normative. It is best to ask the question to both of them.

All I would suggest is weighing all counsel against the Word of God.

Please don't read too much into the list, it was only quick thoughts typed out on a forum.

Also, the not meeting face to face alone thing is based on the number of stories that I know of where the man and potential end up in less than honorable circumstances physically at their first meeting, or the man proposes marriage at the first meeting without his wife even knowing he was going to do that.

Of course, I also know of a first meeting between husband, wife, and potential where the husband and potential were intimate without the wife knowing because the wife said it was ok for the two of them to go pick up lunch together so they could spend that time alone. They shared more than a slice of pizza and when the truth came out months later, it nearly destroyed the marriage. Anyway...

This will not be prevented because of some guidelines. People will do this no matter what guidelines are set in place. Some men may need more guidelines than others. That is ok. Men are weak in primarily three ways. I call them the 3G's:

Girls
Gold
Glory

Some men are weakest when it comes to the Girls. Some men are weak when it comes to the Gold. Yet others, they are weak when it comes to Glory. The trick is being honest with oneself. Unfortunately, some wives try to control the husbands relationship encounters because of less than honorable purposes as well. That is an entirely different matter. I simply calling it usurping authority.

There is no perfect remedy or plan, just a basic thought was all, and I don't believe I intended to imply or did imply that any man that did not participate was less of a catch or should be looked negatively upon. It really comes down to establishing a pattern of being a legitimate man, or family. Am I known in the poly community, is my wife going to jump a cliff if I do this, do other people know what my temperament is? These are all things that I would want to have some outside input on if I were a single woman, that is all.

I agree 100%.

Any law or rule is not made for the honorable, only those without restraint that offend or harm others. A real man would not need any accountability or anyone else to give him credibility. However, the OP was about negative situations, and my response was an effort to get some thoughts out on how to set some kind of loose agreement of standard for this fellowship. When we consider the type of view that the world has on this lifestyle, showing a structure or outward sign of how seriously we honor ALL ladies in our hearts and minds is not a bad testimony.

[/quote][/quote]

I wish it were that simple. Having been in church life longer then the ages of most people on this board, I have seen similar attempts fail miserably when just dealing with monogamous dating when local churches have established their church guidelines. If people want to sin, they are going to sin. Real accountability is as good a those who are committed to it. Even if there is a rule that says we will only meet with a wife, a dishonorable fellow could easily slip a note to his date with another time to meet. Although I agree with your noble heart Paul, it is hard to legislate all aspects of courting relationships in my opinion. So, I always say, if everyone agrees that the Word of God is the final authority, half the battle is already won!

 

[Paul not the apostle]

I think that you are missing my point but maybe I am misunderstanding because even though you are quoting me specifically, you might be speaking generally.

This will not be prevented because of some guidelines. People will do this no matter what guidelines are set in place. Some men may need more guidelines than others.

I wish it were that simple. Having been in church life longer then the ages of most people on this board, I have seen similar attempts fail miserably when just dealing with monogamous dating when local churches have established their church guidelines. If people want to sin, they are going to sin. Real accountability is as good a those who are committed to it. Even if there is a rule that says we will only meet with a wife, a dishonorable fellow could easily slip a note to his date with another time to meet. Although I agree with your noble heart Paul, it is hard to legislate all aspects of courting relationships in my opinion. So, I always say, if everyone agrees that the Word of God is the final authority, half the battle is already won!

I agree, which is why I said previously,

Any law or rule is not made for the honorable, only those without restraint that offend or harm others. A real man would not need any accountability or anyone else to give him credibility.

and

voluntary.

The main focus is to help men that are new to this type of belief NOT make mistakes that can be avoided with proper Godly counsel, and to help women, both married and looking, by having some kind of method to verify the true intents of a man and his family, as well as the spiritual, emotional, physical, and financial ability of that suitor. And in doing so, help prevent some of these sad stories.

 

[DaPastor]

I think that you are missing my point but maybe I am misunderstanding because even though you are quoting me specifically, you might be speaking generally.

This will not be prevented because of some guidelines. People will do this no matter what guidelines are set in place. Some men may need more guidelines than others.

I wish it were that simple. Having been in church life longer then the ages of most people on this board, I have seen similar attempts fail miserably when just dealing with monogamous dating when local churches have established their church guidelines. If people want to sin, they are going to sin. Real accountability is as good a those who are committed to it. Even if there is a rule that says we will only meet with a wife, a dishonorable fellow could easily slip a note to his date with another time to meet. Although I agree with your noble heart Paul, it is hard to legislate all aspects of courting relationships in my opinion. So, I always say, if everyone agrees that the Word of God is the final authority, half the battle is already won!

I agree, which is why I said previously,

Any law or rule is not made for the honorable, only those without restraint that offend or harm others. A real man would not need any accountability or anyone else to give him credibility.

and

voluntary.

The main focus is to help men that are new to this type of belief NOT make mistakes that can be avoided with proper Godly counsel, and to help women, both married and looking, by having some kind of method to verify the true intents of a man and his family, as well as the spiritual, emotional, physical, and financial ability of that suitor. And in doing so, help prevent some of these sad stories.

Hi,

You are correct Paul. I was answering in a general sort of way.

I understand your heart, and your intent completely. I think it is quite noble. There are many others here that desire the same thing. What I am not sure of is how far leadership should really be involved with this without being guilty of micro managing the lives of others. Historically, this has been tried before - not with polygyny in mind - but with courting period. The heart and intent was to protect couples and women from great pain and suffering from casual sexual relationships, flaky relationships, etc... I have never seen one work except on a very surface like level. Part of the reason this ministry exists is to help out people in this regard, but quite frankly, these are uncharted waters pastorally speaking. I think that BF retreats, teaching, etc... is one of the best para church means of helping to prevent unnecessary problems, but even this has a great deal of weakenesses.

Blessings Paul

 

[ylop]

the number of stories that I know of where the man and potential end up in less than honorable circumstances physically at their first meeting, or the man proposes marriage at the first meeting without his wife even knowing he was going to do that...Of course, I also know of a first meeting between husband, wife, and potential where the husband and potential were intimate without the wife knowing because the wife said it was ok for the two of them to go pick up lunch together so they could spend that time alone.

Paul NTA thanks for sharing those examples, and I like the intentions of the suggestions in your posts. The thing is, from my observations of behaviour reported on this and other forums I could certainly imagine such scenarios as quoted above occuring. And they are so NOT what I am about or want to be associated with.

I feel I am coming to a philosophical position where I strongly support Biblical marriage in principle; however have no vision for it in my own life. I like honesty, openness and integrity, but the illegal nature of polygamy and its method of practical implementation seems to be in contradiction to those principles.

I mean, the kind of woman I would be interested in as an additional wife - Christian, stable background, well-brought up; would highly likely not consider polygamy and probably reject it out of hand (I am not saying everyone has to pursue these criteria, it is just me).

I can see why the fundamentalist Mormons develop their own communities - it normalises their polygamous behaviour within their own group, among other things. But I don't want to live in a compound.

We are a long way from being 'normal' (and who wants to be normal anyway). It is just that I am not going to remove my criteria and beg for a woman to accept my proposed illegal lifestyle. I have a solid track record and plenty to offer. If I was divorced I would be a prime catch and probably acceptable to most Christian women (I am not getting divorced, this is just an example). So I just cant see this working out in Western society.

Apologies for the rambling post.

ylop

 

[ylopsonlywife]

Glad to hear you are not getting divorced hon

 

[porkchop]

Thank you ylop. I really needed to read your post. I think I'm in the area of support for biblical marriage but no vision for it in my life too. After a summer of turmoil ourselves, we came to the conclusion that at this time the lifestyle is just too difficult for us.

When you consider your grown children, grandchildren, 2 sets of parents, siblings (lots of them), co-workers and friends, it's just too fraught with landmines for us. Throw in the adult kids and almost adult kids not liking each other, and one or more of us, and you have a turf struggle for the rest of your life. Not the kind of future I'm looking forward to because honestly, we love our family, whacky as it is, and who really wants to spend every holiday deciding who hubby is going to be with and who gets left out, and who wont speak or visit us anymore. At this point, it's just all too much for us to handle. We'll just be happy to read, listen, support and grow ourselves. The ideal is great but the parctical application is too difficult right now. Besides, what's the rush?

 

[porkchop]

I wish there was a danged spell check button on here (or if there is someone please point it out to me). Obviously I need it.

 

[MarvelousMarvin]

I wish there was a danged spell check button on here

When writing a lengthy post, I usually write it in my word processor (OpenOffice.org) and after spell check, proof reading, etc., copy and paste it to the forum's text editor. That involves a few extra steps, because all formatting (like quoting you, above) needs to be done in the forum's editor, but it all results in a (hopefully) better post. Plus I can easily save a copy to my own local hard drive.

Short posts, such as this one, get composed "on-the-fly" using the forum's editor.

 

[sweetlissa]

For long posts I use word. I noticed that on long posts this editor gets a bit squirrely and I have lost large quantities of material, so by doing it in another wordprocessor, not only do I have the option of spell checking and writing more, I can also save it for future use. In ministry we find ourselves defending our positions often. It is nice to have our writings in a re-useable format.

SweetLissa

 

[MarvelousMarvin]

Proverbs 18:22 KJV Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

So far, my interest in Biblical Marriage is more theoretical than practical. About a year ago, I had to be intellectually honest and admit that I had been taught – and that I had been teaching – false doctrine about marriage, all of my life. And that's a long time compared to many of you.

I have one wife, and I love her more than I ever thought possible for one human to love another. That love is mutual, which makes it even better. Yet, she knows I want another wife. Not instead of her, but in addition to her.

That can not happen yet for the simple reason that we have a covenant. When we "said the shoobie-doos" almost 12 years ago, the "vows" we exchanged (what we commonly call "wedding vows" is actually a covenant) included language that, in plain English, mean, "You are my one-and-only as long as we are both alive." I hope that is a long time, unless the Rapture takes place real soon.

Yes, that "one-and-only" part is in there because of fraud on the part of the Church, teaching the false monogamy-only doctrine. But God expects us to keep our covenants anyway. So I will keep our covenant, and pray that my wife will someday be willing to modify our covenant to make it more in line with what the Bible actually teaches. But if she never does, I love her.

She obeys me as Ephesians 5:22 says she should, and she loves me. And I am still learning what it means to love her in keeping with Ephesians 5:25 and similar verses.

Somehow, I think that my commanding her to obey me and modify our covenant would be the same as kicking her to the curb. I could never do that.

I love her.

 

[porkchop]

OOHH so that's how you do it! Thanks for the info. I'll try it.

 

[porkchop]

Thanks everyone for your ‘shares’. I’d sure like to see more info on how you actually make this lifestyle work in the average day-to-day life. Who is making it work successfully every day? Who has blended real families together and had it turn out positively? Who had tried this with older children? One problem we had was that our adult daughter did not like the ‘almost’ SW at all -and I can’t emphasize ‘at all’ strongly enough. Of course, we would never alienate our daughter and our granddaughters- so that was difficult. Almost SW’s 17 yr old daughter despised husband. She gave him ‘dagger eyes’ all the time which was hurtful to him and upsetting to all of us. Please note though that no one outside the three of us (hubby/almost SW/myself) knew exactly what was up either.

We tried approaching the lifestyle lightheartedly one night when ‘Sister Wives’ was on and I thought my in-laws would have a stroke. My father-in-law was ready to burn them all at the stake, and my mother-in-law was just disgusted, so we know that we’ll never get them on board. My mother will never go for it. We brought the lifestyle up with our son while we were visiting him during Christmas and he said “if I knew someone doing that, I’d disown them on the spot” –plus his in-laws are Eastern European immigrants and they are super conservative so can’t ever let them know either. All of our siblings are very catholic and take wedding vows super seriously so they’re out too. Add in the additional stuff like company holiday parties and just general work-a-day dealings like that and I just don’t see it being practiced practically. Let’s face it, plenty of people just work normal jobs in normal companies and it just complicates everything-who wants to get left at home when you’re going to a party? If I were a second wife I’d sure not like being a big secret kept in the closet. I guess what I’m trying to get at is how do you do this?? This makes me remember something I told my daughter before she married a tattoo artist, “It’s great to have an alternative lifestyle as long as you’re good enough at it and make enough money to live outside ‘normal culture’, otherwise you’re always at odds with society and you’ll have very few friends”; If you can live like that great, if not, count the cost before you do it”.

 

[porkchop]

PolyDoc,

I have been thinking about your post since you put it up. I just want you to know how much I appreciate your thoughtfulness and kindness with your wife. I must say it's refreshing to see someone who understands that it's one thing to desire the ideal but realize that you can't be a 'stick-in-the-eye' to the people who love you. Strive for the ideal, live in reality. It's so much easier to be a good witness to your family and friends (the people you're around most and have a real history with) if you show them love and understanding- I always say. We made the mistake of really turning our family off when we were new christians, years ago, because my husband loved to beat them over the head with his bible when they came to visit. He was determined to make them believe if it was the last thing he did on this earth! It's a wonder that they didn't disown us and they've never forgotten that either. As my husband says now "Why use a jackhammer when a feather duster and a little elbow grease will do"?

 

[MarvelousMarvin]

Donnag,

Thank you for the kind words. And I like your husband's feather duster vs. jackhammer analogy!

May God richly bless you and your family.