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May I ask opinions... So still nothing. I have not been able to talk to or see my son's or wife since she left for the UK without my knowledge or consent.... I've missed both my sons birthday, Christmas and New Year as well as now almost 6 months! I honestly feel so hurt and angry as I type this.. My question is this, am I sinning because I'm fileing for legal divorce? Am I supposed to be like Abraham and just let Hagar leave with my son(s)? It's purly eveil that she's allowed this and done this, no that doesn't mean I think she's evil. My other said she left because she didn't want the kids brought up in or around poly and the possibility I may marry another wife who wouldn't stick around (happened before). Me working at loving more than one wife is not damaging to my children, if the wife leaves that's not me throwing her away! I would accept my wives who left return If they repented and asked to come home, legal marriage or not. So just because I'm doing legal action is that divorce in my heart because there is a certificate? Therfor I'm breaking my faithfulness? I don't think so.... but these are thoughts that roll around all the time. I want to be angry at my wife for what she did, yet I still love her. I just want my son's back :(
 
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Sean Miller said:
May I ask opinions... So still nothing. I have not been able to talk to or see my son's ory wife since she left for the UK without my knowledge or consent.... I've missed both my sons birthday, Christmas and New Year as well as now almost 6 months! I honestly feel so hurt and angry as I type this.. My question is this, am I sinning because I'm filing for legal divorce? Am I supposed to be like Abraham and just let Hagar leave with my son(s)? It's purly eveil that she's allowed this and done this, no that doesn't mean I think she's evil. My other said she left because she didn't want the kids brought up in or around poly and the possibility I may marry another wife who wouldn't stick around (happened before). Me working at loving more than one wife is not damaging to my children, if the wife leaves that's not me throwing her away! I would accept my wives who left return If they repented and asked to come home, legal marriage or not. So just because I'm doing legal action is that divorce in my heart because there is a certificate? Therfor I'm breaking my faithfulness? I don't think so.... but these are thoughts that roll around all the time. I want to be angry at my wife for what she did, yet I still love her. I just want my son's back :(
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Well, Jesus said that if you divorce AND remarry, it is adultery. I have contended that He was actually saying that the man who divorces is causing his wife to commit adultery, as it states in Matt 5:31-32. I am no Greek expert though, so take that opinion for what it's worth.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Well, Jesus said that if you divorce AND remarry, it is adultery. I have contended that He was actually saying that the man who divorces is causing his wife to commit adultery, as it states in Matt 5:31-32. I am no Greek expert though, so take that opinion for what it's worth.
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Right. Well I would always believe the divorce was as the OT says or refers to " sending her away". In my case I didn't send her away. In the world view it would be seen my fault she left because I married another wife (who is and was part of our family 2 years before my 1st left). I'm not to concerned to the worlds way of seeing it but the biblical. Yet,lol I have family who blame it on me also who are Christians. Saying similar thing, "it's not loving to your wife to marry another, so it's understandable she left".

I've accepted I can not please everyone so I'm not aiming for that as I get older, but I do want to please God if I can properly.
 
Sean Miller said:
Right. Well I would always believe the divorce was as the OT says or refers to " sending her away". In my case I didn't send her away. In the world view it would be seen my fault she left because I married another wife (who is and was part of our family 2 years before my 1st left). I'm not to concerned to the worlds way of seeing it but the biblical. Yet,lol I have family who blame it on me also who are Christians. Saying similar thing, "it's not loving to your wife to marry another, so it's understandable she left".

I've accepted I can not please everyone so I'm not aiming for that as I get older, but I do want to please God if I can properly.
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My friend, read 1 Cor. 7:12-15. Take particular note of verse 15; But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

If your wife has departed as an unbeliever, let her depart. God has given you the freedom to have another wife. May God bless you with His peace.
 
frederick said:
My friend, read 1 Cor. 7:12-15. Take particular note of verse 15; But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

If your wife has departed as an unbeliever, let her depart. God has given you the freedom to have another wife. May God bless you with His peace.
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Yes, I'm very familiar with this verse. Yes she is an unbeliever now. This is the words of Paul though, not of Christ. Christ only gave one exception for divorce though. He didn't say if the unbeliever leaves you may divorce her, Paul said that, why didn't Christ vs Paul? This was Paul's opinion, let is remember it's not not a directive from Christ, so shouldn't we obide to Yeshua first?
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Well, Jesus said that if you divorce AND remarry, it is adultery. I have contended that He was actually saying that the man who divorces is causing his wife to commit adultery, as it states in Matt 5:31-32. I am no Greek expert though, so take that opinion for what it's worth.
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I'm re thinking this again. Sorry guys if this is annoying. Isn't adultry that he commits by marrying another have to do with him? Maybe I was wrong on the Greek understanding that adultry had to do with a married woman only. Because what if a husband does divorce his wife and marry another and is ex wife doesn't have relationships with any other man, then how is it Adultry?
 
Sean Miller said:
Yes, I'm very familiar with this verse. Yes she is an unbeliever now. This is the words of Paul though, not of Christ. Christ only gave one exception for divorce though. He didn't say if the unbeliever leaves you may divorce her, Paul said that, why didn't Christ vs Paul? This was Paul's opinion, let is remember it's not not a directive from Christ, so shouldn't we obide to Yeshua first?
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Jesus didn't address this issue but Paul did hence Paul's statement (v:12); But to the rest I, not the Lord, say:

There are other matters addressed in the epistles which Jesus never spoke of directly. For example, Jesus gave no instruction regarding the qualities a man should demonstrate before being appointed to serve as overseer (cf. 1 Tim. 3:1-7) or deacon (cf. 1 Tim. 3:8-13) but Paul did. Was Paul wrong to write these and many other such things? Was this only Paul's opinion? I think not. It is written, All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Shalom
 
Sean Miller said:
I'm re thinking this again. Sorry guys if this is annoying. Isn't adultry that he commits by marrying another have to do with him? Maybe I was wrong on the Greek understanding that adultry had to do with a married woman only. Because what if a husband does divorce his wife and marry another and is ex wife doesn't have relationships with any other man, then how is it Adultry?
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Of course this would simplify things a lot more, if you had any indication that your wife DID have relations with another man, not that you would want that, but if you did, you would clearly have nothing prohibiting you from moving forward. As it stands now, this seems to be a gray area that comes down to how to view the entirety of the NT. Of course, we are only referring to the legal recognition of your marriage here, and not how you or God views your commitment to the woman (or women?) who ran out on you.
 
Sean Miller said:
My question is this, am I sinning because I'm fileing for legal divorce?
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Allow me to ask this: why are you filing for divorce?

Might it make it even harder for you to find and get into contact with your sons if you divorce her? There are certain rights and privledges that a husband retains.

No judgement. Just brainstorming with you.
 
frederick said:
Jesus didn't address this issue but Paul did hence Paul's statement (v:12); But to the rest I, not the Lord, say:

There are other matters addressed in the epistles which Jesus never spoke of directly. For example, Jesus gave no instruction regarding the qualities a man should demonstrate before being appointed to serve as overseer (cf. 1 Tim. 3:1-7) or deacon (cf. 1 Tim. 3:8-13) but Paul did. Was Paul wrong to write these and many other such things? Was this only Paul's opinion? I think not. It is written, All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Shalom
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I live by the word but I would not go as far as to say it's all God's word or "breathed by God", nothing says that in the NT. Most of it is letters to the people in the churches, even Paul is clear when it's the Lord's command, so I'd say it's pretty dangerous to blasphemy and say another man's words are God's. Are the words wise? Yes, I'd agree there is a great amount of wisdom written in the NT
cnystrom said:
Allow me to ask this: why are you filing for divorce?

Might it make it even harder for you to find and get into contact with your sons if you divorce her? There are certain rights and privledges that a husband retains.

No judgement. Just brainstorming with you.
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Thanks for the feedback. The reason I'm filling is because it's the only way to get a custody order here. So I have no legal way to get my son's back if I don't file and put in for a motion for custody. Once I have that then I can motion the courts in the UK for a return order. Then it's up to her if she returns with the kids or not. The divorce process shows that we are perminant residents of Thailand, not of UK.
 
Sean Miller said:
Thanks for the feedback. The reason I'm filling is because it's the only way to get a custody order here. So I have no legal way to get my son's back if I don't file and put in for a motion for custody. Once I have that then I can motion the courts in the UK for a return order. Then it's up to her if she returns with the kids or not. The divorce process shows that we are perminant residents of Thailand, not of UK.
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Interesting legal mess that one! Could you file for a legal divorce, while making very clear in lawyer-to-lawyer communications that this is simply a paperwork exercise in order to obtain a legal custody order, because if she won't return the second-best option is to have the children back? But you are not truly rejecting her, only using the only legal avenue available to you, you consider her your wife scripturally and she is always welcome back.
You'd have to discuss with your lawyers about how and whether something like that could be worded in a way that did not jeapordise the divorce order itself though. I do not know if this is an option, and it is a scriptural grey area, just throwing out some food for thought.
 
Sean Miller said:
I'm re thinking this again. Sorry guys if this is annoying. Isn't adultry that he commits by marrying another have to do with him? Maybe I was wrong on the Greek understanding that adultry had to do with a married woman only. Because what if a husband does divorce his wife and marry another and is ex wife doesn't have relationships with any other man, then how is it Adultry?
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1. There is no way she abstains, her adultery is only a matter of time.
2. @frederick has it right. Paul's not contradicting Christ because our Lord was speaking of serial monogamy: a man divorcing his woman in order to marry another. Read it as "divorcing and marrying another": one interrelated action. The classic "he left me for her" action. Your case is as Paul talked about.

Your marriage to her is over, regardless of whether or not you file divorce paperwork. Doing so as part of the process of getting access to your children again is a good thing, not evil. The evil is on her part.
 
Sean Miller said:
Thanks for the feedback. The reason I'm filling is because it's the only way to get a custody order here. So I have no legal way to get my son's back if I don't file and put in for a motion for custody. Once I have that then I can motion the courts in the UK for a return order. Then it's up to her if she returns with the kids or not. The divorce process shows that we are perminant residents of Thailand, not of UK.
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Thank you for the clarification. This certainly makes a lot of sense.
 
FollowingHim said:
Interesting legal mess that one! Could you file for a legal divorce, while making very clear in lawyer-to-lawyer communications that this is simply a paperwork exercise in order to obtain a legal custody order, because if she won't return the second-best option is to have the children back? But you are not truly rejecting her, only using the only legal avenue available to you, you consider her your wife scripturally and she is always welcome back.
You'd have to discuss with your lawyers about how and whether something like that could be worded in a way that did not jeapordise the divorce order itself though. I do not know if this is an option, and it is a scriptural grey area, just throwing out some food for thought.
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I'm greatful for the food for thought, and I fully agree with you, however there's no possibility for that, she's not here, she's not coming, she doesn't have a lawyer here and so on. Additionally, there are strict guidelines inorder to get grounds for divorce, this unfortunately means I have to pull into the paperwork the dirty things that's happened, which is like not to have to do but have no other way. Yes, you said it, is a mess of legal jumble and I still feel very hopeless.
 
rockfox said:
The classic "he left me for her" action. Your case is as Paul talked about.

Your marriage to her is over, regardless of whether or not you file divorce paperwork. Doing so as part of the process of getting access to your children again is a good thing, not evil. The evil is on her part.
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Maybe I am missunderstanding you but Paul was referring to as you said divorce to marry another. I am not divorcing/putting my wife away to marry another so I'm not sure how you mean my case is as Paul talks about. I Married long before she left and did not send her away or divorce her. Yes, the unbeliever left, I'm not fighting for her back, I am fighting for EQUALL RIGHTS to my son's. This is again what the Red Pill Movement is all about. I'm sick to my stomach as I write this, this was not my choice, months before she left I gave her other options if she didn't want to live with me anymore, reasonable more than fair options, she refused it because it was not what she wanted, she wanted to leave and me be okay with her taking my kids away and not seeing them but once a year. This isn't even about me being the provider financially it's about that I am in the home with the kids as much as she was, and even if not, why does that give her the rights to take my kids (because she doesn't think it's good for them to grow up in a poly home).
 
Sean Miller said:
Maybe I am missunderstanding you but Paul was referring to as you said divorce to marry another. I am not divorcing/putting my wife away to marry another so I'm not sure how you mean my case is as Paul talks about. I Married long before she left and did not send her away or divorce her. Yes, the unbeliever left, I'm not fighting for her back, I am fighting for EQUALL RIGHTS to my son's. This is again what the Red Pill Movement is all about. I'm sick to my stomach as I write this, this was not my choice, months before she left I gave her other options if she didn't want to live with me anymore, reasonable more than fair options, she refused it because it was not what she wanted, she wanted to leave and me be okay with her taking my kids away and not seeing them but once a year. This isn't even about me being the provider financially it's about that I am in the home with the kids as much as she was, and even if not, why does that give her the rights to take my kids (because she doesn't think it's good for them to grow up in a poly home).
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He was just trying to clear up the confusion as to how adultery could be divorcing AND remarrying, when that should probably have been translated "for the purpose of marrying". He wasn't trying to implicate you.
 
Sean Miller said:
Maybe I am missunderstanding you but Paul was referring to as you said divorce to marry another. I am not divorcing/putting my wife away to marry another so I'm not sure how you mean my case is as Paul talks about. I Married long before she left and did not send her away or divorce her. Yes, the unbeliever left, I'm not fighting for her back, I am fighting for EQUALL RIGHTS to my son's. This is again what the Red Pill Movement is all about. I'm sick to my stomach as I write this, this was not my choice, months before she left I gave her other options if she didn't want to live with me anymore, reasonable more than fair options, she refused it because it was not what she wanted, she wanted to leave and me be okay with her taking my kids away and not seeing them but once a year. This isn't even about me being the provider financially it's about that I am in the home with the kids as much as she was, and even if not, why does that give her the rights to take my kids (because she doesn't think it's good for them to grow up in a poly home).
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I don't think the Red Pill Movement has anything to do with fighting for custody, but I can understand why you would not want them raised in the environment of an unbeliever.
 
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