Witness #2

[DiscussingTheTopic]

What is even weirder is that the Quran doesn't actually condemn homosexuality. There is an understanding in the culture that you get everything you want in Paradise, depending on your persuasion. At the same time the culture makes a show of condemning it.
.

="http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm"

Islam and Homosexuality

A Collection of Articles dealing with this subject:

The Qur'an and Homosexuality:

There are five references in the Qur'an which have been cited as referring to gay and lesbian behavior. Some obviously deal with effeminate men and "masculine women." The two main references to homosexual behavior are:

"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

"What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk." Qur'an 26:165

Both references relate to gay sexual activities; lesbian practices are not mentioned in the Qur'an.

Lut is referred to as "Lot" in the Hebrew Scriptures. This passage is an apparent reference to the activities at Sodom and Gamorah. It seems to imply that there was no homosexual behavior before it first appeared in Sodom. This is a uniquely Islamic concept; it does not appear in Jewish or Christian beliefs. The passage also links the sin of Sodom (the reason for its destruction) to homosexuality.That linkage is contradicted by other verses in the Hebrew Scriptures.

The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are:

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners in gay sexual intercourse)

There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them."

Traditionalist orthodox Muslims generally claim that the Hadith literature contains the authentic sayings of Muhammad. Many liberal Muslims doubt their authenticity. The latter might point out that during the times of the first Caliphs, Muslims did not know what to do with individuals guilty of "liwat/lutiyya". No sahabi (companion) of Muhammad could quote a saying or decision of Muhammad relating to this question.

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm

Both references relate to gay sexual activities; lesbian practices are not mentioned in the Qur'an.

 

[Tali]

I should have been more precise in my "what is weirder...." statement.

I should have said, while the Quran states in several places an objection to homosexual behavior, it is understood in the culture that the "pearls" described in Paradise (Sura 52:24 and other places) are boys, and you can have your way with them.I know that Islamic scholars will deny this, but it is true.

At times Islamic homoerotic poetry and literature have dwarfed by sheer numbers anything written about heterosexual love, especially around the 8th century.

Another odd twist is that it is assumed that young men will service each other until they can marry women. To engage in sodomy is not considered a loss of virginity for men or women, something which can call for an honor killing if it can be proven that what we would consider heterosexual fornication had been committed.It is also completely normal to sodomize a woman and still be considered pure sexually. As the civilian SARC (sexual abuse recovery) person for our camp, I dealt with this as well from the Iraqi female perspective.

I lived on a base where Iraqi Special Forces were trained, and our medics were commonly having to give medical care to young men for these issues.

While it's true that recently Iran in particular has gained notoriety for executing teenage boys involved in sodomy, believe me when I tell you there is a double standard, both in the literature and the culture.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

I should have been more precise in my "what is weirder...." statement.

I should have said, while the Quran states in several places an objection to homosexual behavior, it is understood in the culture that the "pearls" described in Paradise (Sura 52:24 and other places) are boys, and you can have your way with them.I know that Islamic scholars will deny this, but it is true.
/quote]

Is that talking about the afterlife, or here on earth in Sura 52. It could be like that thing where they can get a very large number of wives in the afterlife but nor more than four in this life.

 

[Tali]

Afterlife.

As I said previously, there are more than just female Houris in Paradise. Everything you went without in this life you get to have there for self martyring--Wine, women, boys, silk clothing, on it goes. The "Pearls" are known to be boys, although "scholars" will try to sanitize the fact, just like they try to get around "Aisha the favorite of the Prophet" only being 9 years old. Also, remember that the only way one is assured of Paradise is to self martyr. All else is a crap shoot, which is why the wailing at funerals is so intense. There is no assurance that Allah will be merciful with an unmartyred life.

Bottom line, if you don't worship the Creator, you'll worship the Creation, and the minarets are, shall we say, anatomically correct. Stylized phallic portrayals as well as female genitalia show up everywhere, in the ornate plaster work on walls and ceilings, the marble work, flanking doors and entry ways, the shapes of windows. Some of it is more subtle, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. It freaked out the intel officers and the historians, believe me.

Let's move on, seeing as this is a family friendly site, shall we?