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Witness #2

I can see two sides of the story. What I am reading is that mostly everyone (the commenters any way) seem to fully understand the conscept of veriabilities in any given situation, cultur, education extra. I went clubbing when I was 12 and for all intense and purposes I looked like a grown woman, I didn't get into men till about 14 but oddly enough I may have done better to be alowed to marry at 16. My mind and culture would never have alowed for such things but if we are asking woman to be virgins by 16 some young men and woman are going squirly in there skin. But we are all diffrent I have known those who didn't seem to care till oder and girlfriends who were boy cazy serveral years younger. I just got an e-mail from a friend from highschool who is with the same man since 17 their oldest is 7 like mine and she also has two others. But if you consider that a child isn't fully developed mentaly till they are 18-25 and are actualy not criminaly held accountible for there actions in the same manner as an adult are they infact of age to make the disision that they want to marry, or have they been tought it's pleasing to God and your parents to marry said man. If you think that your status in heven will be affected by your choice to not go with said man, if you think that your home life will become hard because your parents and your siblings are unpleased, what kind of a choice is that? and if the man you marring is 20 or more years older than you, it's like asking you to adventualy be a widow. Now back to the other side of the story. Growing together is amazing. When I first lived with my ex-husband we rented a room in a house, our room was the room of teenagers: posters on the wall, matress on the floor, we liked to lisen to music, drink tea and dance barefoot in the back yard. It's hard to explain but I am so diffrent from then that I think it's sad to lose, it's something another man won't get to do with me. Watch me grow. I also think it's said to get divorced, a woman likes to know her man remembers what she looked like in her youth, pre-children, but remember I didn't marry till 19 so that doesn't apply to the topic on hand.

In conclusion I am saying that it is such a wide topic, so many things to consider. Yes it's hard to make a general statement. I don't think it's beyond the courts responsibility to get envolved.
 
NO Lissa, I didn't think you were arguing at all. Sorry if you thought that, I was in a hurry this morning and guess I wasn't being careful with my words.

I am so grateful to have folks to help examine things with.
 
I was thinking about my sisters today. I’ve worked since I was 16, next youngest sister has worked on and off over the years and just got a paralegal degree. Youngest sister never wanted to work; she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. This worked well until 2 years ago when her husband lost his job and hasn’t been able to get another one. Then he hurt his back and is now disabled and can’t work. Now my sister needs to work and can’t get a job because she has no job skills at all to make her the least bit attractive to an employer. They are in bad shape now. I still think even if you want to be a stay-at-home person a marketable job skill or at least a good education is a good thing to have. I still vote for getting married after an education or some sort of job skill is aquired. You never know when you're family will need you to step in and help with income.
 
Back to talking about marrying very young and not getting any job skills....

Today I got to thinking back to when I used to sit in on a lot of job interviews...just wanted to share a couple of things with everyone on how the cards are stacked against women getting jobs after they've been out of the market for a while....

I had one boss who wouldn't hire anyone with more than a 3 year gap in their work history. She said she worked when her kids were small because she had to support them and she saw work gaps as a cop-out and thought it gave career women a bad rap. If she saw more than a 3 year gap she tossed the resume. I'm not saying that it's right, I'm just saying it's a fact to deal with and something to be aware of.

Believe me, it happens all the time. My sister with 2 degrees is having a hard time getting a job now because she doesn't have a lot of job experience (because she stayed home a lot of years too) and she is on the down-hill slide to 50.
 
donnag said:
In the United States, all but two states require a couple be age 18 in order to marry without parental consent. Nebraska sets the age at 19 and Mississippi at 21 at the time of this writing (May 2003). A few states will waive this requirement if there is a pregnancy involved, but the couple may still have to have court approval.

God Bless Nebraska and Mississippi.

http://www.coolnurse.com
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Man : Should we get married honey?

Woman : I think you have to get me pregnant first

Man : But isn't that illegal?

Woman : Yes but if you get me pregnant we can get married and you won't go to jail

Man : But we could go to jail if the courts decide we aren't married?

Woman : Yes but you cannot marry me unless we get pregnant first.

Man : But I cannot legally marry you until you get pregnant.

Woman : Yes but you can get me pregnant first

Man : But I cannot get you pregnant legally until we are married
 
Funny!
OR they could just wait till they are at least 18 with a job skill that will support them and their family instead of being young, preg. unskilled and on public assistance..... (just a thought).
 
Moses (not merely the most "humble', or "meek", but perhaps the most TEACHABLE man of all time) need FORTY years of tending sheep before he had all the skills necessary to lead the people of Israel out of bondage. ;) He was about 80 years old before God decided he was ready to be used.

Today we teach immaturity and rebellion to the plan of God for our lives, instead of what is True, and most important. Is it any wonder that most people aren't ready for "marriage" (whatever that may mean to society) at the age of 18? The divorce rate suggests that the majority - of both men and women - may simply just NEVER be ready, at any age.

I find it particularly revealing that our bodies, which have not changed much since the Flood, are obviously ready to join in marriage long, LONG before our brains are. It probably has a lot more to do with how, and what, we are taught, rather than the way He made us.
 
donnag said:
Funny!
OR they could just wait till they are at least 18 with a job skill that will support them and their family instead of being young, unskilled and on public assistance..... (just a thought).
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So one culture is right and the other is wrong?

This age factor was not a finance problem until our culture repressed the more moral cultures of the world.

And who said that man had to be young when he got married. That being said in the better cultures a young man was permitted to provide for his wife but not in the modern repressive cultures.
 
Perhaps not a matter of right and wrong. Perhaps more a matter of dealing with the time and place you happen to find yourself in history. It's easy to look back and say this or that was better; It's a bit more difficult to apply practically to the time and culture at hand.
 
donnag said:
Perhaps not a matter of right and wrong. Perhaps more a matter of dealing with the time and place you happen to find yourself in history. It's easy to look back and say this or that was better; It's a bit more difficult to apply practically to the time and culture at hand.
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OK so I am not intending to go out and break laws in America which would seriously destroy my life

But I think those laws should be changed.

What right do Atheists have to judge Christians for being judgmental and then judge Indian and Muslims and Hmong and Korean and African cultures marriage rules. And what right have Christians to judge based on make believe numbers that are not actually in the Bible.

Using make believe numbers to govern marriage is a doctrine of demons. Any alleged "Christian" who supports these non-Biblical make believe numbers is supporting a doctrine of demons.

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

1 Timothy 4:1-5 NIV 2010

As Christians it is our Biblical duty to let doctrines of God rule marriage instead of doctrines of demons. And thus Christians have a duty to support the overturning of and prevention of make believe numbers in marriage laws.
 
Well I can only say that perhaps they'd better start running for political office then. Wouldn't that be fun? It's hard to change the rules of a culture from the sidelines. -not trying to argue, my husband and I debate this stuff all the time. Sometimes we back each other to the wall and have to shake hands and walk away. He and I can be polar opposites a lot and that makes for some good entertainment in our house!

All I'm trying to point out is that it's one thing to have an 'armchair debate' on ideals, but it's a whole nuther thing to try and figure out a practical way to impliment them.
 
donnag said:
Well I can only say that perhaps they'd better start running for political office then. Wouldn't that be fun? It's hard to change the rules of a culture from the sidelines. -not trying to argue, my husband and I debate this stuff all the time. Sometimes we back each other to the wall and have to shake hands and walk away. He and I can be polar opposites a lot and that makes for some good entertainment in our house!

All I'm trying to point out is that it's one thing to have an 'armchair debate' on ideals, but it's a whole nuther thing to try and figure out a practical way to impliment them.
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I feel the government, media, "Churches" and powers that be would falsify info about me on the news, and look me up and kill me, torture me or let me go free with a life so ruined by slander that I am unable to do anything in society due to great persecution.

Know if I ran with that platform I would be imprisoned on false charges.

I like the opportunity to semi-anonymously convince others, it is about all I know to do without getting locked up for political incorrectness.

I feel other than about Jesus I have more freedom of speech in Muslim countries.
 
ooy- really? I've been in a few Muslim countries including Malaysia and I didn't get that feeling at all...My brother-in-law lived in Saudi for almost 20 years and he didn't feel that way either, and he's a total atheist.

Cultural change is famously laborious and time consuming.
 
donnag said:
ooy- really? I've been in a few Muslim countries including Malaysia and I didn't get that feeling at all...My brother-in-law lived in Saudi for almost 20 years and he didn't feel that way either, and he's a total atheist.

Cultural change is famously laborious and time consuming.
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I do not understand what you are saying

It could go either direction. I just do not get it.

Perhaps I did not explain myself correctly, because it sounds like you are disagreeing with me (unless I misunderstand you.)

My point was there are certain things Christians are free to speak in Muslim countries that they are not allowed to speak in America.
And that there are certain things Christians are free to speak in America that they are not free to speak in Muslim countries.
 
I feel other than about Jesus I have more freedom of speech in Muslim countries.

Sorry I confused you. I'm just surprised that you feel you have more freedom of speach in a Muslim county, that's all. It's just so opposite of anything I've experienced or heard about.

I cannot figure out how to highlight and quote on this site. I've also been trying to upload a pic to my profile for 2 weekends and no luck there either.
 
Having lived in a Muslim country for three years, and visiting several others, I am wondering to what you are referring when you speak of things that can be discussed in a Muslim country, but not America?
 
donnag said:
I feel other than about Jesus I have more freedom of speech in Muslim countries.

Sorry I confused you. I'm just surprised that you feel you have more freedom of speach in a Muslim county, that's all. It's just so opposite of anything I've experienced or heard about.

I cannot figure out how to highlight and quote on this site. I've also been trying to upload a pic to my profile for 2 weekends and no luck there either.
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Hit the button that says quote on the upper right of someone else's comment. Then it will quote everything between quote = "their name here" and /quote except it will not look quite like I wrote because there will be []

or alternatively type in [ followed by quote followed by =" followed by their name here followed by " follolwed by ] followed by text in between followed by [ followed by / followed by quote followed by ]
 
alit53 said:
Having lived in a Muslim country for three years, and visiting several others, I am wondering to what you are referring when you speak of things that can be discussed in a Muslim country, but not America?
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I cannot answer that because I am in America


Are you familiar with Sura 65:4 ?

By the way I do not put my faith in the Quran, but Muslims do allegedly put their faith in the Quran, so they can talk about MUSLIMS approval of Sura 65:4 all they want, but Muslims cannot openly approve the real Sura 65:4 in America on mainstream television.

There is one thing I can discuss more clearly

In certain European countries, Christians who say man with man homosexuality is wrong will be charged with hate speech but would they be punished for "hate speech" against man with man homosexuality in Muslim countries?
 
Yes, I am familiar with 65:4. Like many other passages in the Quran, it is being sanitized to not mean what it really means, like jihad being massaged into being "an internal struggle." But you can't get around the fact that 65:4 is talking about prepubescent girls.

What is even weirder is that the Quran doesn't actually condemn homosexuality. There is an understanding in the culture that you get everything you want in Paradise, depending on your persuasion. At the same time the culture makes a show of condemning it.

I agree with you about Europe and the hate speech. What is little known is that in Paris there are whole sections of the city that have become exclusively Muslim, and the police won't even go there. Teenagers wear T shirts that say "2030 We Take Over," and they aren't kidding...
 
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