Violating Her Conscience

[Anonymous]

So, who gets to decide when the time of 'prodding and unfruitful teaching' has been enough time?

Good and honest question that troubles many of us. I doubt anyone wants to run ahead of God in this area. I feel it is hard to put weeks, months and years to spiritual issues. Recognizing this as a spiritual issue helps answer the question. Too often we strive to separate in our minds service to God and service to our spouse, when in reality it is all the same. If a husband is not being, loving, gracious and teaching his wife the truth, he is also being unfaithful to God. If a wife is being unyielding to her husbands leadership, she is also in rebellion to God also. God is gracious to us, in that He loves us, teaches us and calls us to serve Him, showing us the way, But, He doesn't wait for us to get around to it, putting His program on hold until we are ready. He keeps moving and doing. If we are rebellious, He creates circumstances where we change our mind (think Jonah) or He get's someone else to do the job (think Deborah and Barak). Neither men nor women have forever to yield to the leadership of God, but who's to put numbers to that time?

 

[Scarecrow]

PolyDoc...Cecil...

As I read through this thread it occurred to me that another verse applies to the situation...

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

It may be difficult for women to understand that most men that consider polygyny are being led to walk in it...at best it is difficult for me to describe the "pull" I felt into this type of marriage.

If a woman is able to comprehend that her husband is being led into this type of marriage perhaps it is easier for her to support him. For those who do not understand it is likely that they would believe there are ulterior motives and resist it.

I think it is also difficult for a woman to understand that a man can love more than one woman because she is wired to love only her husband.

That's two strikes against us from the start for most men...

 

[Isabella]

I think it is also difficult for a woman to understand that a man can love more than one woman because she is wired to love only her husband.

You know that is an incredibly presumptuous idea, you know there are quite a few wives out there who love more than one man.

I think you mean that women are more often monoamorous? I don't actually think this is necessarily true, I think it is more culturally imposed but that is by the by as it is assumed that more women are monoamorous, personally I believe that it is more often that women are more often sexually fidelitous.

Kind regards,
B

 

[Scarecrow]

Perhaps I should have phrased it differently...

I think it is also difficult for most women to understand that a man can love more than one woman because most women are not inclined to love more than one man.

Unfortunately the English language is lacking when it comes to expressing "love" in words. I love french fries, I love my wife, etc...when it comes to a spouse I think women love their husbands a little differently than husbands love their wives which also leads to some of the misunderstanding we see.

 

[CecilW]

So, who gets to decide when the time of 'prodding and unfruitful teaching' has been enough time?

It's a question with which I, too, have struggled.

I got a clue, however, when my first wife said, "I don't care WHAT you find in the Bible. I know what is right and wrong, and that isn't."

I got another clue when she tricked me into an "intervention" with our pastor, and demanded that I go before the congregation, who were generally unaware of my changed beliefs, and confess that it was wrong, I knew it to be, and was only trying to justify it so as to have an excuse to pursue some "variety" due to my sexual addiction (what other possible explanation could there be, right? :x ) When I refused to say what wasn't so, she initiated a separation. That was a pretty good clue.

Previous to that, she had tried to forbid my attendance at a retreat and, of course, refused to accompany me. I attended anyway, needing the support of fellow believers.

Please don't imagine that this was or is easy for me. 11 years later, I still miss her, pray for her, and struggle with a broken heart. Yes, I have another wonderful wife now, but you ladies are NOT replaceable! Another wife can only ever have her own place, NOT yours!

But that's just MY journey. Nearly 3 years later, God brought along my current wife, and I withdrew from "seeking" to build a new family with her and take care of issues she was facing. 5 years later, she drew me back into this group.

Point? Everyone's experience is gonna be different. All I can suggest is that we impute as much goodness as we can to each other. Let's assume that wives are adjusting as rapidly as they can, and that guys are doing their best to patiently wait on God's leading and not run ahead. We may be proven wrong at times, but I bet we'll be MOSTLY right!

But if you as the husband start getting ultimatums and a laying down of the law, so to speak, it will be time to declare yourself clearly, let the broken hearts fall where they may (your own included!)

 

[porkchop]

Cecilw,

I don't disagree with that. I think sometimes the way we express ideas and ideals just come across in a rather harsh way. I don't respond well to 'harsh'!

 

[CecilW]

I don't disagree with that. I think sometimes the way we express ideas and ideals just come across in a rather harsh way. I don't respond well to 'harsh'!

I understand. I doubt ANY of us enjoy 'harsh', either receiving or dishing it.

I guess where I'm at (at this point in my journey) is that if we don't, finally, draw a line and say, "This is it", everyone gets left wondering just where it is, ya know? Can't see how that serves anyone's needs unless they hope to hide opposition behind fuzziness.

Guess what I'm aiming at is gentle but stark clarity. Dunno how well I'm doing. :?

 

[porkchop]

I totally understand. I have a brother-in-law who loves to stir up 'stuff' if you know what I mean, and he thoroughly loves to be a 'stick-in-the-eye of anyone who dares to disagree with him. Believe me, he doesn't get away with that when I'm involved (he cuts a wide path around me). Once in the heat of quite a good argument he said 'I don't care to socialize with anyone who disagrees with me' and that just shut down communications. I try not to get into that position.

 

[DaPastor]

I think Pastor John's point about the issue is one of does the woman have a legitimate fear or misunderstanding.
That requires a different response than the one who knows the truth, sees the truth, and yet still rebels against the truth. The first requires more patience. The second requires a different response.

But, back to my point, and singing the same tune again or maybe my cd player is stuck, but I find that it is always a great aid to a lady to find other women that she can become friends with and bond with.

A lot of women when they begin to bond with a lady or several ladies who believe in polygyny it helps to build a bridge for them to move from an anti-position to more of a pro or willingness position. It can go a long ways.

I think that this practical approach can literally change the heart of some wives. I have witnessed this... This is one of the top ten practical approaches to helping a reluctant wife move forward. On the other hand, if a wife is adamently against polygyny, do not start off with this approach. It may serve to undermine a husbands goals.

 

[DaPastor]

So, who gets to decide when the time of 'prodding and unfruitful teaching' has been enough time?

Good and honest question that troubles many of us. I doubt anyone wants to run ahead of God in this area. I feel it is hard to put weeks, months and years to spiritual issues. Recognizing this as a spiritual issue helps answer the question. Too often we strive to separate in our minds service to God and service to our spouse, when in reality it is all the same. If a husband is not being, loving, gracious and teaching his wife the truth, he is also being unfaithful to God. If a wife is being unyielding to her husbands leadership, she is also in rebellion to God also. God is gracious to us, in that He loves us, teaches us and calls us to serve Him, showing us the way, But, He doesn't wait for us to get around to it, putting His program on hold until we are ready. He keeps moving and doing. If we are rebellious, He creates circumstances where we change our mind (think Jonah) or He get's someone else to do the job (think Deborah and Barak). Neither men nor women have forever to yield to the leadership of God, but who's to put numbers to that time?

Very well said

 

[DaPastor]

I don't disagree with that. I think sometimes the way we express ideas and ideals just come across in a rather harsh way. I don't respond well to 'harsh'!

I understand. I doubt ANY of us enjoy 'harsh', either receiving or dishing it.

I guess where I'm at (at this point in my journey) is that if we don't, finally, draw a line and say, "This is it", everyone gets left wondering just where it is, ya know? Can't see how that serves anyone's needs unless they hope to hide opposition behind fuzziness.

Guess what I'm aiming at is gentle but stark clarity. Dunno how well I'm doing. :?

The truth be known, all husbands who are serious about serving God wrestles with these issues. Since Scripture does not spell it out, this suggests that it belongs in the category of personal choices. It is kind of like trying to figure out how long should one know someone before marrying someone. Scripture does not spell it out. It leaves room for a great deal of liberty in these regards.

 

[porkchop]

I salute the bible!

 

[CecilW]

I totally understand. I have a brother-in-law who loves to stir up 'stuff' if you know what I mean, and he thoroughly loves to be a 'stick-in-the-eye of anyone who dares to disagree with him.

*wince* I used to resemble that remark during my younger days.

Nowadays, I'm more intent on establishing peace along with a tolerant broader understanding (if not acceptance.) :roll: Doesn't always work. And the "stuff" keeps getting stirred up around me.