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Violating Her Conscience

DaPastor

DaPastor

Member
Real Person
This is for everyone to discuss.

I am a firm believer that the husband is the head of the home. I am also a believer of servant leadership, rightly understood. So, with those things in mind, do you believe a husband is abusing his authority by asking his wife to do things that are not unbiblical, but, they are things that violate her conscience, none the less?

I ask this question because it is a core value in Christian theology. Martin Luther expressed it this way: "To go against conscience is neither right nor safe." Furthermore, it is something that really should be discussed in regard to polygyny in Western culture.

Respectfully
 
i would need the specific situations explained in order to understand your question. :)
 
I had to deal with this issue in my home long before PM became an issue, as I felt the freedom in Christ to enjoy many things which my wife did not.

I came down then, and do now, squarely with Luther.I am convinced that while God clearly says, "This is my standard. Don't move it and claim that I did.", His practice is to DRAW us into compliance, not drive us. I believe that is the meaning of the passage that says He takes into consideration that this one was born here, and that one there.

For a husband to try to use his husbandly Authority to attempt to force or coerce his wife or wives to go against their conscience would be WRONG, even if what he wanted them to do was itself RIGHT.

Having said that, neither does his wife or wives have the right to announce that they are his conscience, and he is not to be "allowed" to do something because she or they insist it is wrong.

Each is responsible for his or her conscience alone.
 
I think there are two issues to deal with here.

Romans 14 says not to do anything that would cause another to be damaged. Yet, if the head truly is mature then he should be able to teach someone enough over a period of time to mature that lady if she is teachable.

Take for example a theologian who worshiped in a Messianic fellowship. The lady he courted and then later joined to thought that she could only worship the Lord on Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown. This was indeed her conscience. He allowed and tolerated that in mercy and love and attended with her ONLY at those times until later he was able to mature her through his teaching and their ministerial leadership of that fellowship to the point where she saw that she could indeed worship on other days as well with no violation of any law.

In this case the man as the head accepted and tolerated the conscience of his lady, which is what Romans 14 teaches people to do with those who have a more restricted conscience, even though he had a different conscience and walked in Christ's liberty. Then in time through the skill of proper teaching and doctrinal guidance from him and their spiritual leadership the lady's conscience was matured and she was then free to walk in and with that man's liberty.

There must be tolerance for a weaker or more restricted conscience and yet at the same time the man must fulfill his stewardship of leadership and teaching to the family by bringing the lady towards maturity (Eph. 5:25-33).

But until the conscience is mature the more mature must show that maturity by accepting the less mature and the less mature must not refuse the more mature his or her liberty. This is the teaching of Paul in 1 Cor. 10:23-30 and in Romans 14 on what has been termed the disputable matters, or conscience issues.

Dr. Allen
 
How does an Ephesians 5:25 husband find the right balance?

I firmly believe in Biblical Marriage, my wife still believes in the false doctrine that has been rammed down the collective throat of Christianity for a thousand years or more.

I am trying to gently lead her to an understanding of truth. It helps that she loves the Lord for over 50 years now, but that also represents a lifetime "bad habit" to overcome.

When she does accept the doctrine of Biblical Marriage, there will still be emotional issues based on all the cultural monogamist-only baggage.

So at what point do I assert my patriarchal authority and tell her to obey...? If I do that too soon, it would amount to "kicking her to the curb," because she would leave. (Which would be an act of rebellion on her part, and certainly NOT an act of love on mine.) But if I wait too long, hoping she will someday agree with me, I might be too old to properly provide for two (or more) wives IAW Exodus 21:10! (And I'm not talking about their food or raiment...)
 
PolyDoc said:
So at what point do I assert my patriarchal authority and tell her to obey...?
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What precisely do you mean by "obey"? What is SHE to do different than she does now?

It seems to me that YOU are the one who will be doing things different ... courting another wife, marrying her, etc. It is possible that all your wife need do is ... nothing.

If she actively tries to prohibit you from doing what you believe you should, then she is getting involved, right? And that becomes another topic. She's trying to control or interfere in your business.

And if she says, "Well, if you..., than I'm outa here," again she has taken action. If her reason for doing so is that it is against her conscience to be married to you while you pursue your new beliefs, I see no way to properly prohibit her. Woo her back to your side, and to God's word if you can. But you can't control her either.
 
Dr. George,

Ephesians 5 would indeed apply to your circumstance.

What I will share here publicly with you is this, and we can talk more on this in private conversation, your lady needs to meet first and build friendships with other like minded mature ladies who affirm polygyny. I stress the mature part because that is critical.

Part of loving your lady is placing her in front of good female friends, right? Is that not part of what Christ does for us in his providence as he leads us? Does he not give to us people we can fellowship with? Are not our friends precious blessings of grace as we walk on this pilgrimage home to glory?

Notwithstanding the counsel about the "right a man" has to move along there is a definite preliminary step before you should ever go forth in bringing in another lady. To simply act and bring in another before trying to give her an opportunity to build relationships when she is opposed to it now is unwise. It is not a matter of "rights" per se but a matter of "wisdom." Granted, there have been exceptional cases where it was done a different way. But if an opportunity exists, as it now does, then wisdom (Proverbs 2) calls us to lead and love in that way.

As a shepherd you need to build a base of friends that your lady can meet to begin building relationships with. I can testify to how this has worked. These other ladies, who affirm polygyny, are a means unto the end of her learning that those in this persuasion of thought are moral, solid, upstanding people.

If you need I can give you a list of good places to start for those bridge building opportunities. Plus the retreats are very helpful as well. The more you and your lady can attend the better those personal bridges can be built. But it can be done in several different ways.

Also if you have not, go read the article in the teaching forum on "Why Do People Get So Angry Over Polygyny." In that article I touch upon the medical and physiological issues that must be taken into consideration. To help overcome those brain molecular structures that have been established (what you noted as many years of monogamy only indoctrination) in her mind she needs true friends, mature lady friends, who can help her brain to build a new set of cords that processes this information and lifestyle differently.

Believe me, this step is worth its weight in gold! And your lady will love you and respect all the more for placing in her life a good support system should the Lord lead you to later progress into such a union.
 
If she actively tries to prohibit you from doing what you believe you should, then she is getting involved, right? And that becomes another topic. She's trying to control or interfere in your business.
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Due to that #@*&$ (pardon my cussing :x ) false doctrine that we all were taught, she thinks it IS her business if I would try to court another woman. I understand WHY she thinks that. I thought that, too, until I studied what the Bible really says about marriage. It was not easy for me to change my mind, and she is having trouble with the concept.

Maybe all I'm really doing is venting a bit of frustration...so please forgive me for that! But I am open to any advice you may have to offer. I'm new at this Biblical Marriage "thing," and do not want to "blow" it. Not only would that be detrimental to me and my family, but also to the Biblical Marriage movement in general.
 
Not only would that be detrimental to me and my family, but also to the Biblical Marriage movement in general.
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For sure, true indeed. Try the friends suggestion from the prior post and give it a year and see if that does not make a difference for the good. You may be surprised.
 
So, with those things in mind, do you believe a husband is abusing his authority by asking his wife to do things that are not unbiblical, but, they are things that violate her conscience, none the less?
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The question back atcha' DaPastor. :)
I would really like to know. Thx.
 
What timing. My husband and I were just discussing, this past week, the idea of putting your wife on a timer. We’re wondering if there is any example in the bible where God spelled out a short time line for someone to meet his expectations or he’d kick them out or force an issue. I don’t seem to recall such anything like that, but of course I could be wrong. I’m wondering why the guys never say much about being more like Job and having some patience, even longsuffering patience with someone you probably made a big promise to years ago, and who has invested many years of her life comforting, helping and being patient with you. I just had to ask.
 
Great point Cecil! If a husband takes a second wife, what sin could the first wife be in danger of committing?

1. Stay with her husband even though he is having a sexual relationship with another woman? Well Christ said he gave us divorce because of the hardness of our hearts. So his preference would be for the woman to stay with her husband, right? So she would not be sinning.

2. To have this woman stay in her home? That is not a sin?

So really, in my opinion, it isn't about her conscience, but rather her preference.

SweetLissa
 
It appears that there is a fine line to consider. On one side is the ladies troubled and uncertain conscience seeking truth and just a little bit to the right, across that line is her troubled and certain conscience that has employed a stubborn will refusing to consider anything different than was previously learned. The lady on the right of the line becomes the authority and controller of the relationship.
What is a reasonable time for the lady on each side of the line to adjust to the leadership of a godly husband?
Also are we assuming that these ladies were already in good position as a wife before this catastrophic upheaval?
 
I think the key is her willingness to learn and consider the biblical truths. Is she teachable?

If a woman is introduced to Biblical Marriage based on scriptures and refuses to acknowledge the truthfulness of it then you have a stubborn ungodly wife that may also be selfish and controlling. I am not sure if time will do anything but harden her against it further (I am reminded of Pharaoh and the ten plagues).

If a woman is at least willing to study and discuss it then the husband should actively and frequently pursue the subject with her using the scriptures and allow the Holy Spirit to lead her and guide her in truth.

Isa 55:10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

There have been a number of times when the lord has "broken" me in order to show and teach me different things. My pride, my selfishness, my ego...all get in the way sometimes...He has to set those aside to show me things that I otherwise wouldn't understand...I wonder if women have to go through a similar process to overcome the ingrained monogamy doctrine. If so then I can empathize with them.
 
In the story of Jonah, God gave the Ninevites 40 days to change their ways or be destroyed

Jon 3:3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
Jon 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Jon 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
Jon 3:6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
Jon 3:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
Jon 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Jon 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
Jesus gave people the opportunity to follow him and he didn't follow them around and beg them to follow him. If they wanted to follow, they were welcome, but if they didn't follow, then he was fine with that.

When Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac, he wasn't given any time to comply. His wife wasn't given any chance to deal with the decision.
 
"he wasn't given any time to comply"

He was also dealing with a specific command directly to him directly from God. The women today have been told all their lives that a man should have only one wife and seen that modeled throughout the society they are a part of. Theyy have been given a secular definition of adultery as well. If you want a woman to consider different circumstances I believe it is appropriate to allow her time to realize the truths revealed in the scriptures rather than forcing it on her. That takes time.
 
Donnag asked for examples. I am not saying that women shouldn't have time to comply. I was simply showing a couple of examples.

SweetLissa
 
As a way of introduction to my views I would like to share my understanding of a "violation of conscience." A violation of conscience involves asking, encouraging, or exhorting someone to do something that they hold as "unclean" (Romans 14:14), that is, impure or unholy. There is nothing in the act of polygyny itself that is a violation of a wife's conscience if her husband desires, or acquires another wife. She may not agree with it culturally, but the fact that her husband is moving in the direction of polygyny does not ask her, encourage her, or exhort her to do anything unclean, impure or unholy. At this point, if the wife believes that her husband is actually committing sexual immorality, only then, she may be violating her conscience by remaining with her husband. However, if a wife knows the truth about polygyny, though she may not personally desire her husband to have another wife, her conscience is not being violated by her husband acquiring another wife.

I will share more later
 
What ever happened to 'Love not Force'? Has that fallen down the wayside now or something?

B
 
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