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The War On Men

Hello everyone, I would like to add this comment. When I explained polygyny to my wife, her first thought was bondage. Must harm has been done because of wrong translation of scripture and teachers Because of the western teaching against patriarchy, my wife and other women in General felt that, this is a HUGE step backward. The rage and bitterness that I've seen is unbelievable. People do perish because of the lack of knowledge.
 
I'm sorry people... I hit the wrong button and replied to soon... Wasn't finished with my thought....
I will repost my reply...
 
cwcsmc said:
I agree with you JayJ. I believe when fathers start standing up for their families and take on the responsibility to keep them together, instead of letting the world tear them apart, then things will begin to change.
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Amen, let the fathers and men in general stand up!
 
Hello everyone, I would like to add this comment. When I explained polygyny to my wife, her first thought was bondage. Much harm has been done because of wrong translation of scripture and teachers that gave their own interpretation of what they believed to be the truth. Because of the western teaching against patriarchy, my wife and other women in General felt that, this is a HUGE step backward. The rage and bitterness that I've seen is unbelievable. People do perish because of the lack of knowledge. No longer do many women want men to really be men, they want boys who will listen to momma.. More men are being lead by their wives belief system and basically told what they can and cannot do. I had a pastor friend who wanted a particular automobile, in front of myself and other pastors and their wives, she responded to us by saying... I told him NO!!! He can't have it... And this discussion is over... The pastor put his head down in utter embarrassment.

Yes there is a war against men, and the war for him starts in his Home! How unfortunate. Men want to lead their families, but are made to feel less than..... a lustful prude, or everything but a child of God.
As for my wife she does know and understand polygyny from a biblical perspective, but I believe she is still not comfortable (even though she doesn't say it) with the idea of us living it.
 
ADHERE said:
Hello everyone, I would like to add this comment. When I explained polygyny to my wife, her first thought was bondage. Much harm has been done because of wrong translation of scripture and teachers that gave their own interpretation of what they believed to be the truth. Because of the western teaching against patriarchy, my wife and other women in General felt that, this is a HUGE step backward. The rage and bitterness that I've seen is unbelievable. People do perish because of the lack of knowledge. No longer do many women want men to really be men, they want boys who will listen to momma.. More men are being lead by their wives belief system and basically told what they can and cannot do. I had a pastor friend who wanted a particular automobile, in front of myself and other pastors and their wives, she responded to us by saying... I told him NO!!! He can't have it... And this discussion is over... The pastor put his head down in utter embarrassment.

Yes there is a war against men, and the war for him starts in his Home! How unfortunate. Men want to lead their families, but are made to feel less than..... a lustful prude, or everything but a child of God.
As for my wife she does know and understand polygyny from a biblical perspective, but I believe she is still not comfortable (even though she doesn't say it) with the idea of us living it.
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I recommend reading the book Wild At Heart. And for your wife Captivating.
 
Good points, Adhere.

Scripture has been twisted to make it "fit" an unbiblical culture, and this unbiblical culture has been spread through the earth. Even though patriarchy was given lip-service, matriarchy has been being lived, and the Bible has been used to enforce it.

Yes, the resistance to patriarchy, God's ordained order, is visceral. It is certainly demonic in its origin - a doctrine of devils. Is it any wonder that the visceral opposition to patriarchy not seldom manifests with displays (demonic) rage?

Patriarchy is a creation principle. Tom Shipley's "Man and Woman in Biblical Law" proves that beyond the shadow of a doubt - for those who love the truth. Patriarchy is good, because God established it, and God is good. (Gen. 18:25) Polygyny follows from patriarchy - necessarily; therefore, polygyny is good.

The enemy of our souls knows all this, of course, and, therefore, is utterly opposed to patriarchy and also, of course to polygyny. Bring down polygyny and you bring down indirectly(!) patriarchy. Isn't that just the way this our enemy likes to do things - indirectly, subversively, whisperingly?
 
Gulliver, I enjoyed "Wild At Heart". Some good things in it.

Correct me if I am wrong please, but as I recall there was a vry strong element of chivalry there. I'm thinking about the sword ...
 
Good question, cwcsmc. Fundamental question.

The answer I have found is that wr are to follow God. Period.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

"A man cannot serve two masters ..."

There is no mention of Abraham even informing Sarah of his intentions.

Interesting is also, I think, the incident between Moses and Zipporah on the way to Egypt. Seems he went on alone.

If a man turns back from following God, because his wife will not follow him on that path, then he had turned aside from following God.
 
Oh, yes, if we turn back from obedience to God out of fear of our wives, surely, we will be despised in their hearts.

Was Zipporah a "bad match" for Moses? Or was this something which is in every woman's heart? Consider that one aspect of Eve's sentence after the Fall was that her "desire would be to her husband" - the same statement/formulation made about sin to Cain. Is it not in the heart of every woman to rule her husband? And to despise him if she suceeds?
 
JayJ said:
Gulliver, I enjoyed "Wild At Heart". Some good things in it.

Correct me if I am wrong please, but as I recall there was a vry strong element of chivalry there. I'm thinking about the sword ...
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I'm not sure what you are referring to. Could you quote or say a page number for instance?
 
JayJ said:
Oh, yes, if we turn back from obedience to God out of fear of our wives, surely, we will be despised in their hearts.

Was Zipporah a "bad match" for Moses? Or was this something which is in every woman's heart? Consider that one aspect of Eve's sentence after the Fall was that her "desire would be to her husband" - the same statement/formulation made about sin to Cain. Is it not in the heart of every woman to rule her husband? And to despise him if she suceeds?
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I don't think it is in the heart of every woman. Depends on the maturity.
 
cwcsmc said:
But, another question arises, what if the family/wife won't go?
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That was my question many times here on the forum and most often I got the answer: just wait, she needs time, don't force etc.

I disagree. If it's on your heart you should do it. If your wife won't follow that's her problem. She will need to deal with it.

If your children would not follow that may show lack of training and I'm not sure you would be able to "correct" it at life-junction. Otherwise, kids most likely will follow you as they are not adults. You'll have problems with the adult (wife) only - most likely.
 
Gulliver said:
cwcsmc said:
But, another question arises, what if the family/wife won't go?
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That was my question many times here on the forum and most often I got the answer: just wait, she needs time, don't force etc.

I disagree. If it's on your heart you should do it. If your wife won't follow that's her problem. She will need to deal with it.
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May I suggest that BOTH answers contain elements of truth?

Unless God unmistakably, indisputably tells a man, "THAT woman, right NOW!", there's no harm and much to approve in "making haste slowly" (Chinese proverb). After all, God exhibits incredible patience with us.

Having said that, there's a difference between saying, "I AM following God down this path, but doing so slowly while I beg you to come along," vs. "I won't follow God down that path unless you come with me or perhaps lead the way." !!!

This is where folks sometimes get confused. "He's forcing me into plural marriage! He should practice Love Not Force!" Really? If God leads the man, and the man leads his family, his family gets to CHOOSE whether to follow. As long as he is not harsh, and allows them to choose, he is not forcing anything. Perhaps his family becomes reduced to a family of one. That's the possibility inherent in free choice! :shock:

"But he's forcing CHANGE, and I want things to stay the same! He has no RIGHT to do that!" Really? Where is it written that life is going to stay the same, if you will it? Illness, economy, job change, natural disaster, simple aging, childrens' choices, war -- all these can and do bring about involuntary changes to our lives. Why should this be any different?

But here's the thing: "God's Spirit shall not always strive with man." He does strive. Long and patiently. But He does eventually move on. And we men are, ever so sadly, in the same position. A wife may indeed dig in her heels and say, "I don't care WHAT the Bible says. I don't care if God sends a special angel/messenger just to tell me directly. I'M NOT HAVING IT!"

If/when that happens, the man is indeed faced with the question: "Who is my Head? Who do I follow?" One answer, however heart breaking, leads to life and an incredibly deeper relationship with God. The other ...

And yes, this post is autobiographical ... :cry: + :)
 
On the feminization of the church: (Personal musings follow :roll: )

I sat in church yesterday (I'm a Sabbatarian") and looked around. Soft colors, and a huge bouquet of flowers on the alter. Peaceful music on the organ & piano. People dressed in cultured finery. No sign anywhere of a church militant!

And I thought ...

The NT is FULL of the fact that we are in a WAR, under discipline, soldiers, striving for mastery, destroying the works of an evil adversary. No sign there of taking our rest, at ease, among majestic music & reverential pastoral cultured surroundings. More "Gladiator" than "Downton Abbey".

In the Great Hall of an old style nobleman, the walls would be adorned with banners, weapons, and trophies of war.

I've seen a few churches (A Joshua something or other from Africa's church comes to mind) where the walls are similarly adorned. Banners, yes. But also trophies of war -- wheel chairs, crutches & canes, artificial limbs, etc. all mounted on the wall.

Methinks we lay flowers on a grave. Sad when it is done at a church's alter.

I wonder what would happen if we were to replace them with the symbols God used to illustrate His armor? A shield, helmet, breastplate, sword, etc.

Better yet, get some modern versions from a police dept (perhaps on long term loan, if purchase is restricted). Riot shield, bullet proof vest, helmet, baton or rifle, steel toed boots, black SWAT style jumpsuit.

Place them on the alter instead of the flowers and preach on the mission of the church. Beat the war drum, so to speak, instead of playing a lullaby. Would sure be interesting!
 
Gulliver,
It took my wife 3 years of patiently talking about it and quietly considering it. I never pushed her, even though I felt that I had that right.
Part of what she considered was the reputation that I brought to the table, I had held the line on sexual purity before our wedding.

If you feel that YHWH is telling you to do something, then do it already. You do not need anyone else's opinion on it, IF you truly believe that you are being required to proceed.

If you are not being required by Him to take another wife at this time, then the conjecture is pointless.
Work on your marriage, build it up in YHWH. There is no marriage that could not be made stronger, and we never know when we will need to draw on that strength.
 
Where IS that "like"-button when you need it?!
Really good comments, Cecil & Steve.

Now that would be some really cool deco, Cecil!
 
steve said:
Gulliver,
It took my wife 3 years of patiently talking about it and quietly considering it. I never pushed her, even though I felt that I had that right.
Part of what she considered was the reputation that I brought to the table, I had held the line on sexual purity before our wedding.

If you feel that YHWH is telling you to do something, then do it already. You do not need anyone else's opinion on it, IF you truly believe that you are being required to proceed.

If you are not being required by Him to take another wife at this time, then the conjecture is pointless.
Work on your marriage, build it up in YHWH. There is no marriage that could not be made stronger, and we never know when we will need to draw on that strength.
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Steve, I wasn't talking about my marriage. I gave advice in general. FYI: my wife is now supporting me finding an additional wife. It took me about 3 months. I was not pushing but bringing it back when I felt she is open/ready for more.
 
Gulliver said:
That was my question many times here on the forum and most often I got the answer: just wait, she needs time, don't force etc.
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Please forgive me for assuming that you were talking about your marriage.

FYI: my wife is now supporting me finding an additional wife.
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Awesome! I hope that goes well!
 
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