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The War On Men

cwcsmc said:
I know I probably should keep quite seeing as I am pretty new here and it is not always good to jump into a heated debate so soon in a relationship, but hey, you don't know who your friends are really unless you get to see them in the heat of battle. :) ( I hope the smile face makes it all better. ;) )

I am a little surprised that a group that is following the path of polygamy, doesn't really get whats going on the divorce/child support world that is being run by people who don't really understand what a true family is. The two have something in common when it comes to the outside world looking in.

I mean, how many like being labelled because of a few bad apples in the poly world. Has anyone considered that maybe, just maybe the information one is given is not necessarily true. Once you believed that monogamy was the only truth, but when your eyes were open everything changed. Maybe the world of divorce is the same thing. Maybe something is wrong at the core.

Blaming men, or women, is not the real story. The current marriage system is operating in a fallen world. It can't work as long as it is not Christ centered. It can only have victims, every person in it is a victim in that system. The men, the women, the children. But there is a common element in that system and it is the same element that wants to disrupt the true family God has designed. Adam and Eve faced that element and it still is operating today. Destroy the family and you weaken the power of God on earth.

The title of this thread may have been better stated as; The War on Families, because that is what it is. Men lose, women lose, and the children lose, but there is a winner, the legal system. The same system trying to do away with polygamy. Follow the money.

For people to blindly quote unreferenced statistics about divorce is I think a bit misleading. I think some where on this thread someone quoted 50% of divorces are by women (or men). But the real figure is 75% of women file divorce, especially if they have children. ( http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/fa ... women.html ) You know why, divorce is a big business. And men suffer from it financially, not to mention losing a family, at the hands of women because lawyers make money. Then the man is forced to pay wife support because the child support he is suppose to pay for the child usually does not go to the children, but to a new car, or house, or clothes for the ex-wife. There is no accountability in the child support system. Maybe if one considered that fact, it might be a little clearer why some men run. Also, you may find that the real culprit is NO-FAULT divorce. Also, there are really different levels of divorce, those of lower income, middle income, and those of higher income. Most of the lower income divorce are were the non payment of child support comes from and that's the reason child support was created in the first place, to help the welfare system. Most men are labeled 'deadbeat' because of this level of divorce. However, when you transfer the same logic to middle income divorces the formulas for child support don't work at all. Higher income divorce is just ridicules. When the courts view a marriage as a real contract then maybe they will award proper damages when a contract is broken like they do in civil court.

The other assumption that is always made is that women are always good mothers and best to raise the children. I find that interesting because, technically the Bible claims that it is the mans responsibility to raise the children. True the mother has to take care of them before they are weaned but after that, it is the fathers job. I agree men today don't do what they should but that is more to do with society (feminist) changing the rules, no different than what is being done to true marriage.

I am a good father. When God revealed himself to me years ago I had a choice to make on which path I would take. I chose to follow Him. However, my children's mother chose not to. But, because of the legal system, that is in favor of the mother getting the children, my decision to follow my Savior (and her adultery), I lost my children. Now, before that happened, I spent over 10 years in a custody battle because I believed that their mother was unfit and it was my responsibility to raise them. And I held to my responsibility to raise my children. I did get to raise two of them in my home, but I am now watching my two youngest being raised in a worldly home. She has had 7 boyfriends in this time, moved to five houses, the children have changed 3 school districts. She has overdosed on prescription drugs, and gotten at least one DUI. And that is just for starters. I pay her to raise my children to know the worlds ways. They are becoming friends of the world. I spent all the money I had in the beginning to fight for them but when that quickly ran out, I taught myself how to be a lawyer and continued on PRO SE. I even litigated a portion of my case in the appeals court of Florida, and held my ground for five hours at the final hearing with a 40 year seasoned lawyer, with multiple witnesses. But I lost both the appeals and the final hearing. You know why, not because of legal merit, but because I represented myself. My legal argument was sound and concise, but the judge could not let me win because I was going against the system representing myself. Family Law there are no rules.

So anyone who makes any statements about men not being able to take care of their responsibility to children, I say, you don't know what you are talking about. Just as if someone told you, you are harming your children being in a plural marriage because of Warren Jeffs. Maybe we should stop letting the worlds sensationalism get the best of us.

Maybe we should all start looking to the facts about the things we believe to be true.

Here is a good starter for this topic.

http://divorcecorp.com/the-film/
Click to expand...

You are very right! We have to look at the things from a holistic point of view. I'm very sorry to hear your trouble. Father organisations come to my mind. Have you tried any? Eg:

http://www.fathers-4-justice.us/
http://www.realfathersforjustice.org/
https://m.facebook.com/Fathers4kids?id= ... thers4kids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers%27_rights_movement
http://singleparents.about.com/od/legal ... ations.htm

Let me know if I could help in any other way.
 
cwcsmc said:
Gulliver said:
You are very right! We have to look at the things from a holistic point of view. I'm very sorry to hear your trouble. Father organisations come to my mind. Have you tried any? Eg:

http://www.fathers-4-justice.us/
http://www.realfathersforjustice.org/
https://m.facebook.com/Fathers4kids?id= ... thers4kids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers%27_rights_movement
http://singleparents.about.com/od/legal ... ations.htm

Let me know if I could help in any other way.
Click to expand...

Yes, father's rights groups helped me very much through out my ordeal. However, I want to say, I take full responsibility for my life. What I experienced was due to my choices in life without God. I learned a valuable lesson about trusting God. Living without God guiding you tends to make life very difficult. Since then, I have come to understand that God used this portion of my life to bring me closer to Him. Something I would never change. My life is so much more at peace now. Sometimes when I see people make certain statements about divorce and fathers, I feel the need to try and reveal what is going on in a world must don't really see, they just hear about from others.

Thanks for the offer of help, I really do appreciate it. I think the most important thing right now is basically what is happening on this forum and within this group of families, to bring God into the world through truly God centered families. Once the darkness sees it can no longer deceive the world through the destruction of families, we will all get to see God's glory here on earth.
Click to expand...

"What I experienced was due to my choices in life without God." - does this mean you were unbeliever at that time?

God centered families are very important I agree. If you need prayer support let us know.
 
I see. Good to hear you are married again and considering a second wife. I didn't know about this. So that's why I offered prayer support :)
 
cwcsmc said:
Gulliver said:
I see. Good to hear you are married again and considering a second wife. I didn't know about this. So that's why I offered prayer support :)
Click to expand...

And I thank you very much. One thing I am learning about this forum,there is really a bunch of nice sincere people here. I am glad to be a part of it.
Click to expand...

No worries :)
 
cwcsmc: Just wanted to chime in here to say that what you said about the enemy of the family, the one leading the attack even now, is the same one our first parents were up against in the Garden.

Just as you said the family is the fundamental building block of society and, I think, more importantly of God's Kingdom.

Isn't it interesting that we are witnessing again that the adversary is attacking the family through deceiving women (feminism) just as he first deceived Eve?

There is more that I would add, but it is time to start the day.

God bless you.
 
I haven't beem able to look at the sites. I'm limited to what internet I can do over this smartphone. A certain person damaged my computer when her emotions just "got out of control" a while back.
 
You know, cwcsmc, seems to me there is only so much a man can do to keep his family together.

As long as we are surrounded by an increasingly Godless culture there are going to be increasing temptations/ incentives to tear the family apart.

I am reminded of Lot's family. It was his wife that looked back, wasn't it? But then again why was he in Sodom to begin with?

It seems to me that until Godfearing men truly put God first in their lives and get serious about building His Kingdom there will be no improvement.
 
An addendum to the above:

Our Lord taught us to pray:

Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Amen.
 
The enemy is winning a lot of battles right now, but I believe that the Millennium is getting close.
We cannot fix what is wrong with society now, but we will. :D
 
Oui, we :D

we will fix it, not "we are in retreat".
being beaten back a ways doth not equal retreat. for some reason YHWH gave me no armor for my back. ;)
 
On any given Sunday, all across the world, churches are likely to have more women in the pews than men. Some estimates place the so-called “gender gap” in America at 61 percent women versus 39 percent men (www.uscongregations.org). That means that every Sunday there are millions more women attending church than men.

There are several theories put forward for why, comparatively, there are so few men attending church. One theory is that the church’s teachings, emphasizing humility, holiness, and introspection, are seen by some men as “weak” or somehow less than masculine. Men are looking to be challenged with a “bold” message of adventure, danger, and aggressiveness.

Finding the right activities to attract men is also a challenge for many churches. Some congregations make an extra effort to provide times of fellowship and bonding for men by adding hunting expeditions, fishing trips, sports, etc., to their schedules.

Another theory is that many churches, knowingly or unknowingly, create a feminine atmosphere with their décor. Floral arrangements, pastel colors, frilly curtains, and pictures of passive, pastoral scenes make for a peaceful ambiance, but they tend to make men feel a disconnect. Some churches attempt to appeal to masculine sensibilities by changing their décor to something edgier, darker, more robust, and less nurturing.

Another explanation for why there are so few men in church has to do with the stereotypical masculine ego. Men are naturally self-reliant, headstrong, and proud, the theory goes, and are therefore naturally more resistant to the divine call to humility and submission. The gospel confronts our need, and men are often averse to admitting neediness.

There are other hypotheses, such as upbringing. Most men were reared by fathers who did not attend church services and so have no role model for masculine involvement in a church. There is the suggestion that men, the traditional breadwinners, are too busy working—or enjoying their day off work—to commit to a church. And overly sentimental church music is sometimes mentioned as something that keeps men away, too.

There might be a grain of truth in each of these theories, but none of them fully explain the gender gap in modern churches. No one rejects church simply because of frilly curtains or a sappy song; there is most likely a deeper problem.

Truth be told, followers of Christ have always included a large percentage of women. Luke 8:3 says there were “many” women who supported Jesus and His disciples during their ministry. At Jesus’ crucifixion, “many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs” (Matthew 27:55). And, of course, it was a group of women who first found the empty tomb (Luke 24:22).

The message of Christ is universal. Following Christ includes adventure, risk, and purpose. Churches should preach the Word and challenge, nurture, and encourage all their members, male and female. Any church that turns the gospel into a soft, congenial message; minimizes the cost of discipleship; or imputes weakness to Christ does its people a disservice. Charles Spurgeon decried such a watered-down message in his day: “There has got abroad a notion, somehow, that if you become a Christian you must sink your manliness and turn milksop.”

Men avoid church for a variety of reasons, and church leaders should be aware of those possible reasons as they reach out to young men, husbands, and fathers. Men should be challenged to emulate the heroes of the faith—robust men such as Moses, Elijah, and Peter. The Christian life should be presented as the adventure it truly is. And we should pray that God would increase the number of men who recognize their God-given responsibilities and who are unafraid to commit their talents and service to a local church.
 
I feel that a huge reason for the lack of men in church is that the churches replace the priesthood of the husband with the pastor.

When men have no position as priest and head of the home they may find no reason to marry.
 
Been catching up with all y'all's comments, and keep searching for the "Like" button.

LIKE :D
 
"The Church Impotent" traces the history of the feminization of the Church. I need to reread it; it has been a while. It is well-written and helps one understand what happened.

The author is, however, catholic and, therefore, misses something which I think is fundamental to this development snd whichonly very recently became apparent to me, and that is the forbidding of polygyny.

You see, take away the possibility of a man taking another wife and you then make the man the captive, as it were, of his wife. It reverses the God-ordained roles very nicely.

This false teaching has been and is promoted by the Church viscerally. Just look at the knee jerk response one gets to any suggestion otherwise.

Before my eyes were opened, I knew in my spirit there is something wrong with the Church, being there makes me feel emasculated. Now I can see clearly that the Church really does emasculate one.

The blog, "Society of Phineas", has many very good insights.

Men are taught to submit to their wives and making them "haaapy" is the husband's purpose in life. Marriage 2.0 enforces this with a vengeance. Is wifey not "haaapy", well, divorce is easy as pie and with the help of sugar daddy state and with the full support of the Church, the poor, suffering woman can be free and take home all the goodies.

Solution? MGTOW or better MGGOW - not men going their own way but rather men going God's own way i.e. putting God first - even above family. Which is what we should do anyway, for it is written; Thau shalt have no other gods before me.

See also Mt. 19:29 and Esther 1:16-20

God's Kingdom come!
 
Well said Jay,
I would add that the very existence of the possibility to marry another wife can empower a man to step up toward leadership in his home.
 
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