The Light of Lucifer on Divorce

[Maddog]

Says the man without daughters. You have to pay the bride price, of course you want it to be low. I have daughters. If I’m going to be giving them up for money then the price damn well better reflect their value to me.

Given a mother that trains her daughter, the daughter has intrinsic value to the household she comes from. It is like giving your best milker to a young man with no money, no career, doesnt know the first thing about being a farmer. Thats foolish on the part of dear old dad.

 

[OttoM]

Or you could admit how absurd this all sounds and examine whether or not the price of the virgin only applies when a virgin has been seduced and her father utterly refuses to give her up. That is the only scenario where we’re told about a bride price….

It's absurd sending daughters to college with no covering - where they will most likely rack up a body count - get into debt for a degree that most likely is worthless - and waste their youth away. Yet, this is the norm in modern Christianity.

How about instead of sending daughters to college without a covering - teach them to be good wives and mothers - and find a suitable husband for them that can provide and produce godly offspring - and just maybe that husband can fulfill some righteousness by showing some gratitude to her parents for raising her right - versus allowing her to do whatever she likes - dress however she likes - sleep with whomever she wants - thus producing a generation of rebellious wives and bad mothers.

 

[MemeFan]

In the previous covenant era betrothal was monetized in TIME- 7 years labor as well as cattle and silver. It had(has) value.

Yea, Jacob is great example.

Only reason he was willing to pay that much is because he was smitten.

Otherwise, you will finish dealing with "profesional buyers". Nothing stops man from running several buying process at same time. Maybe even starting reverse auction.

 

[MemeFan]

Says the man without daughters. You have to pay the bride price, of course you want it to be low. I have daughters. If I’m going to be giving them up for money then the price damn well better reflect their value to me.

Except his willingness to pay depends on daughter's value to him, not you.

Btw, daughter is depreciating asset since older she is she can give less children plus they start going crazy.

 

[The Revolting Man]

It's absurd sending daughters to college with no covering - where they will most likely rack up a body count - get into debt for a degree that most likely is worthless - and waste their youth away. Yet, this is the norm in modern Christianity.

How about instead of sending daughters to college without a covering - teach them to be good wives and mothers - and find a suitable husband for them that can provide and produce godly offspring - and just maybe that husband can fulfill some righteousness by showing some gratitude to her parents for raising her right - versus allowing her to do whatever she likes - dress however she likes - sleep with whomever she wants - thus producing a generation of rebellious wives and bad mothers.

That’s the only two options? Send them to college (whee they would still have a covering, me) or sell them to you cheap? I don’t have any other options?

 

[Mark C]

Monetize the transaction in worth. Mark C you have assets of one sort or another, what is fair market value?
I understand it sounds a bit crass but please dont be offended by looking at this through First Covenent eyes, vis-a-vis bride price.

Or whatever the case may be - it’s your money.

Trouble is, "$$$" are not real money, which is silver. And Steve is right, too, I wouldn't want to demean even a 'pig in a poke' by reducing her to a few inflatable pieces of paper. I wouldn't try to name a 'value' in fiat dishonest weights.

So - is she worth more than a bag of silver? Or maybe rubies?

Yes, she has value, and Scripture is correct - it's HUGE. A true "Proverbs 31" woman, with which I have been blessed with more than one, is beyond price. I literally could not afford to buy what I have been given. (Think about it: That's not the only case!)


And - related, but very different subject: How about the father? He has an investment, and is entitled to real value for something of great value to him. BUT -- a good father obviously wants the best for the "apple of his eye." And every one I know was more than anxious to make sure she had a truly good husband, more than whatever price might be had. (Call it a 'discount' for a good home; I'm more than happy to do that when it comes to selling one of my doe goats.)

And, besides - my first father-in-law had my first wife for just a bit over two decades - I've had her now for [over] twice that. There's no way it's an exchange of mere 'value-for-value.'

 

[MemeFan]

That’s the only two options? Send them to college (whee they would still have a covering, me) or sell them to you cheap? I don’t have any other options?

Well, you can sell them or keep them.

Maybe you can find better buyer.

 

[OttoM]

That’s the only two options? Send them to college (whee they would still have a covering, me) or sell them to you cheap? I don’t have any other options?

So you’re going to be living with your daughter in college? Or it’s a local college and she’s coming back home every night? If not - she’s living on her own with no covering - making her own decisions.

A father is not selling his daughter. He’s giving her away to another man - who ideally will be her covering long after her father passes away. What’s wrong with the husband fulfilling righteousness and showing gratitude to the girl’s family for raising her right and keeping her pure? It doesn’t even have to be called a bride price. He may invite them on a vacation - and pay for their expenses. Etc etc etc.

 

[John316]

Lucifer - the adversary - is called the light bearer because his peaceful light engulfs the western world. The standard practice in western (Christian) civilization when it comes to divorce is as follows:

The wife can divorce her husband for any reason, and she is rewarded by getting primary custody of the children and wealth from her ex-master - the husband.

But what does the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob say about it? His law in the book of psalms is also called the laws of peace and perfection:

Exodus 21:5
“If you buy a Hebrew slave, he may serve for no more than six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. 3 If he was single when he became your slave, he shall leave single. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife must be freed with him.

4“If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave and they had sons or daughters, then only the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. 5 But the slave may declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I don’t want to go free.’ 6 If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door or doorpost and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will serve his Master for life.

So if a wife decides to leave her husband - not only is she commanded to stay un-married (no sexual relations with any other man), but she also does not get to keep any children that came from that marriage. And she most certainly does not get any of the man’s wealth.

Divorces would collapse and wives would carry their cross/stake and stay with their husbands. Husbands would have more peace and be able to grow their households without having to worry about snakes in their garden

Am I correct in assuming two things from your comment:

1. You consider yourself a Slave and God the Master?
Which is so out of biblical context.. I will just nod and say ok to you.
2. Since a wife may not divorce (by your pronouncement) am I to assume you love her (as directed in Ephesians 5) as you love God? You treat her as you would God?

Then those things being true- since u are a slave to Gid the Master and you are to love your wife as you live GOD…. Then do you love and honor your wife asa SLAVE to his Master?
If so then a woman would never have need, desire, or want to divorce such a man. Problem is most men whose wives wish to divorce are married to men that treat their wives like slaves, doormats, abd objects and certainly don’t love them as they Love God, their Master.
The true Satan/lucifer of divorce is the MAN that does not treat his wife/wives as he Love God!

 

[OttoM]

1. You consider yourself a Slave and God the Master?
Which is so out of biblical context.. I will just nod and say ok to you.
2. Since a wife may not divorce (by your pronouncement) am I to assume you love her (as directed in Ephesians 5) as you love God? You treat her as you would God?

Then those things being true- since u are a slave to Gid the Master and you are to love your wife as you live GOD…. Then do you love and honor your wife asa SLAVE to his Master?
If so then a woman would never have need, desire, or want to divorce such a man. Problem is most men whose wives wish to divorce are married to men that treat their wives like slaves, doormats, abd objects and certainly don’t love them as they Love God, their Master.
The true Satan/lucifer of divorce is the MAN that does not treat his wife/wives as he Love God!

Bond-servant is another translation. The meaning stays the same:

Ephesians 5:24
As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.

Luke 17:10
In the same way, when you obey me you should say, ‘We are unworthy servants who have simply done our duty.’”

A wife can leave her husband - but she doesn’t have a right over the man’s property - including the children from his seed.

Women divorce feminist men all the time. A man can be a patriarch, and still love his wives (and the wives love him as well).

 

[The Revolting Man]

So you’re going to be living with your daughter in college? Or it’s a local college and she’s coming back home every night? If not - she’s living on her own with no covering - making her own decisions.

A father is not selling his daughter. He’s giving her away to another man - who ideally will be her covering long after her father passes away. What’s wrong with the husband fulfilling righteousness and showing gratitude to the girl’s family for raising her right and keeping her pure? It doesn’t even have to be called a bride price. He may invite them on a vacation - and pay for their expenses. Etc etc etc.

Why even have the concept at all? As far as we can tell scripture only applies it in the very scenario you’re trying to avoid.

And what kind of father takes resources from his daughter’s newly established household? And what kind of dumbass makes useless gestures to his new father in law that degrade his ability to be a good provider?

You can’t show me what a biblical bride price would be or that it was any part of a biblical marriage, which you can’t define anyway.

 

[OttoM]

Why even have the concept at all? As far as we can tell scripture only applies it in the very scenario you’re trying to avoid.

And what kind of father takes resources from his daughter’s newly established household? And what kind of dumbass makes useless gestures to his new father in law that degrade his ability to be a good provider?

You can’t show me what a biblical bride price would be or that it was any part of a biblical marriage, which you can’t define anyway.

It would help prevent whoredom. Men would avoid sleeping with virgins without an intent of marriage. Today virgins are treated like prostitutes:

Genesis 34:31

But why should we let him treat our sister like a prostitute?” they retorted angrily.

They sleep with them and move on. Society is okay with that.

I helped my father in law financially. I didn’t give a “bride price for virgins,” because it’s not custom. But I help when I can, and it didn’t degrade my ability to be a provider for my household. The wife appreciated me helping her parents out. So it was a blessed decision.

Where I saved:

1. I didn’t spend even close to average men pay for an engagement ring. I’ve seen men spend way above the average on just the engagement ring, and they still end up divorced.

2. I didn’t go crazy with the wedding ceremony. I kept it simple on the beach.

One can argue starting off marriage with ten’s of thousands spent on the wedding ceremony and engagement ring (some even do bachelor parties) - that degrades a man’s ability to provide. Offering a helping hand to her parents did not.

 

[The Revolting Man]

It would help prevent whoredom. Men would avoid sleeping with virgins without an intent of marriage. Today virgins are treated like prostitutes:

Genesis 34:31

But why should we let him treat our sister like a prostitute?” they retorted angrily.

They sleep with them and move on. Society is okay with that.

I helped my father in law financially. I didn’t give a “bride price for virgins,” because it’s not custom. But I help when I can, and it didn’t degrade my ability to be a provider for my household. The wife appreciated me helping her parents out. So it was a blessed decision.

Where I saved:

1. I didn’t spend even close to average men pay for an engagement ring. I’ve seen men spend way above the average on just the engagement ring, and they still end up divorced.

2. I didn’t go crazy with the wedding ceremony. I kept it simple on the beach.

One can argue starting off marriage with ten’s of thousands spent on the wedding ceremony and engagement ring (some even do bachelor parties) - that degrades a man’s ability to provide. Offering a helping hand to her parents did not.

Well now you’re talking about honoring your parents, that is a command. I’m all on board with that.