Supply and Demand

[Oreslag]

...[Clipped for Focus]...
We can really , only change ourselves. God must be the one to change another.

In my experience, efforts to change myself are also commonly unsuccessful. Even in this I most often need the Lord to effect the change. With me it begins with the conviction His Spirit provides that clues me in to the fact that I need pray for Him to effect changes in my heart and mind. His answers to those prayers are often my only hope of truly changing.

 

[Oreslag]

...[Clipped for Focus]...
Outside close religious communities, the women are in the drivers seat and they know it.

Which I think is fundamentally incompatible with most of the concepts discussed in this forum.

Hence we are largely talking pie in the sky.

ylop

That seems an over-generalization. I think it depends upon the particular men and women your are talking about. Having been in one very bad marriage I entered long before becoming a believer, I learned what having a woman in the driver's seat was like. Consequently, I have no desire to repeat that experience. After leaving that marriage and before meeting my wife, I preferred being alone to being bound to a woman whose goal was to be the wedge between me and my Lord. I imagine it is the same for an unbelieving man that does not wish to be 'driven' by his wife.

Thus, in any relationship, the 'drivers seat' really belongs to the one to whom it is given by the other(s). It follows that the way to avoid being 'driven' in your house is to avoid yoking yourself to women that wish to 'drive'. I also know that there are many women (though the fraction of the total may be small) out there that prefer to be in the 'passenger seat', so the trick is to ask God to give you such a woman (or women). I know He certainly did that for me when He gave me my wife!

 

[AussieGuy30]

Some thoughts I have been contemplating, using the field of economics this time:

1. Polygamy is Biblical.
2. Biblical marriage is patriarchal - the man is in charge, leads, sets direction.
3. Demand for additional wives is high.
4. Western society denigrates patriarchy.
5. As a result of #4 and religious pressure, very few women will consider a Biblical marriage as in #1 and #2 above.
6. Supply of additional wives is very low. I mean, compare the number of posts where you see the old "Hi, we are new here, we have just discovered PM and are looking for someone to join our family" versus the number of posts saying "I am a single woman who has just discovered PM and would like to join a family" - actually writing that last bit almost has me rolling on the floor laughing at its ridiculous scarcity.
7. High demand and low supply means high price as in the seller can dictate the conditions of sale.
8. The seller dictating the terms of sale means in practical terms that the woman controls when, where, who with, how long; and she can also end the transaction knowing she can easily find another buyer.
9. The buyer has to drop many buying conditions that would normally be standard, and indeed are routinely used when selecting first wives.
10. Items 8 and 9 undermine item 2.
11. Add to this equation the social pressures pulling apart such relationships, and I struggle to see how this will work.

ylop

You bring up some excellent points. It all comes down to fashion really, people are brainwahsed by the television and media and whatever the media says is cool, people think is normal. Its the same with the mainstream churches, congregations tend to follow what their favourite preacher tells them.

Unless a large church congregation is established where PM is preached and PM is promoted in DVD's/books distributed by the church, its going to be difficult to build a PM culture.

 

[Diener]

I thought I would add my experience here since I was single for a while before I found my husband.

When I was single I became keenly aware that I was meant to be a wife and mother. The idea of staying a single woman and just working all my life was horribly hollow to me - like taking a mouth full of dust when you are thirsty. But I didn't want to be married to just be married. I knew being married to the wrong man would make me even more miserable than being alone would make me. I longed for the love and leadership of a godly man. But I also knew that I wanted a master, which most men don't seem to know how to be (which I know is because of our culture). I knew that it was a long shot for me find such a man and I began to think that I would never marry again as a result and that was a very heavy and difficult truth to carry.

I will admit that I never even thought about looking into polygyny as an option; not because I thought it was wrong, but because you just don't think of that as an option and honestly, I thought finding something like that here in the US was even more rare than finding a godly master for a monogamous marriage. When I would go to church and I would see the married couples sitting together with their children I often thought to myself, 'I wonder if that woman knows how lucky she is to have a godly husband that loves and takes care for her.' And it was often fraught with sadness for me because I realized that most of the godly men that make good masters are probably already married. I wasn't sad because I didn't want to be part of a PM, but because I didn't think anyone out there WANTED a PM. Even most Christian men I talked to about PM were often horrified by the idea, much less their wives!

So, the single women that are honestly seeking godly master often don't consider PM just because they don't think it exists - at least not in "Christian" circles. I have told my husband that I still would have "married" him even if he had still been with his first wife because I KNEW that he was the one God meant to give me to. (Of course, she would have never stood for that, but I would have been willing to be her servant, too, in order for this servant (me) to finally know her master.)

Because I know what it feels like to be the woman willing to be the subordinate wife (though I am guessing there are many different views on here about how authority is arranged among wives), I am also willing to let such a woman into our marriage, should such a soul be out there looking for her master. But I do not presume that finding her will be accomplished by our efforts alone, but only by fervent prayer and submission to God's Will for our family, just as I sought for my master but didn't presume that I could ever find such a man by my limited and feeble efforts alone. I prayed fervently that He would direct both my life and my heart toward the man He intended for me.(Indeed, God unexpectedly rooted me up from Colorado and plopped me down in Long Island so I COULD find my master shortly after that! lol)

I guess my point is, keep looking, but remember that it is God that gives all Good gifts.


Proverbs 19:14
You may inherit all you own from your parents, but a sensible wife is a gift from the LORD.

 

[ylop]

That seems an over-generalization.

Yes I agree, however I am talking about the general population. There will always be exceptions. But the reality in the community is that 50 years of feminist indoctrination and church capitulation has shaped most people's beliefs against biblical families. It is hard to fight against the tide.

ylop

 

[PolyPride]

That seems an over-generalization.

Yes I agree, however I am talking about the general population. There will always be exceptions. But the reality in the community is that 50 years of feminist indoctrination and church capitulation has shaped most people's beliefs against biblical families. It is hard to fight against the tide.

ylop

I think we should give the woman's world more credit than you're giving them. If a woman views polygamy as okay and is even open to engaging in it after centuries of monogamy-only indoctrination then I think that says a lot. So I'm not sure why not also give them more credit that they (women) can also live in a moral way after entering polygamy.

From my limited experience of my relationships, current and in my past, women do accept some degree of patriarchy or of letting the man lead. So I guess this all depends on how much patriarchy or leading you think you need and how you lead. I personally don't believe I need to lead any woman when it comes to how much education she should get, or what I want her to wear, or when she should talk and if what she says is of value to me. I've found myself leading on more important decisions like finances or in dealing with protecting the family, or working the most. There's no perfect line to walk here but I do try to be reasonable and empathetic in my relationship when it comes to leading. From there leading in my relationship usually flows naturally and positively (most times).

 

[sharonr]

I like this post, bringing it back up by posting, I am thankful I was lead to it, cant read it all now, but its some good info in here.

 

[impossible]

(i only read the initial post by ylop, none of the responses, so please forgive if i say something thats already been said)
not sure how to say this clearly....
a woman who believes in biblical polygyny, and patriarcal family, submitting to husband, as he also ought to submit to the Father,
would not play that game, trying for power, writing the rules, demeaning the role of man, being swayed by the overwhelming demand.
wouldn't she be more concerned with the will of the Father over her life,
eager for a "good and godly" man, the one who has been chosen by He who loves her most, 'God' ?
therefore, why would you, as a man in His will, even want the kind of woman you described, inviting hell into your life on earth ...?