Meat Patriarchs' Journal 3.21, 'Which traditional marriage..?'

[FollowingHim]

I also found this tonight here in which he quotes another commentator Ba’al HaTurim as saying that this was the case.
View attachment 1527

That commentary is highly speculative, mostly consisting of questions about possibilities. There also seems to be an assumption of monogamy, with Moses' second wife being assumed to be a replacement for Zipporah, rather than an unrelated separate relationship. I get the feeling that the second marriage itself encouraged the thinking that Zipporah was divorced, as he seems to think she was gone for good, not returned later by her father.

 

[FollowingHim]

They have an amusing disclaimer on their site, in case anyone is wondering if they're actually legit.

The key info is deliberately buried at the bottom:

WNDR assumes however all responsibility for the satirical nature of its articles and for the fictional nature of their content. All characters appearing in the articles in this website – even those based on real people – are entirely fictional and any resemblance between them and any persons, living, dead, or undead is purely a miracle.

I think WNDR is deliberately set up to make conservatives look like idiots. They make their site look like a real news site, hiding the notice it's actually satire at the bottom of a long and boring disclaimer so many people won't read it. The name is deliberately very similar to and easy to confuse with World Net Daily, a legitimate conservative news site. Many of their articles are made to sound like things the mainstream media might conceivably have "covered up" or overlooked (like the Exodus one you quoted Steve). I think the point is simply to deliberately fill conservative discussions with fake content, so conservatives can the be ridiculed for believing things that are demonstrably false. Or possibly to deliberately target World Net Daily itself, so people get the idea that sites with the initials WND or named World N.. Daily... are fake.

Their FAQ page states clearly their deliberate intent to target "Christians, Muslims and Jewish Zionists", and calls their articles "well researched and credible" - the tone is such that it should give a hint they're faking it, but it's also written to not overtly say that to keep up the pretence of being real news. It also includes an Israeli flag and bible quotations deliberately intended to make any Zionist feel at home.

They have no advertisements, nor do they ask for donations, yet are very busy. Where does the money come from to pay the authors? I expect if you were to dig you'd find some big anti-Christian, left-wing funder behind it.

 

[steve]

It’s a cold, cruel world out there.

 

[frederick]

Where does the money come from to pay the authors? I expect if you were to dig you'd find some big anti-Christian, left-wing funder behind it.

There's nothing new under the sun.
Matthew 28:11-15; Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, saying, “Tell them, ‘His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.’ And if this comes to the governor’s ears, we will appease him and make you secure.” So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

 

[Robeld]

Have you all seen the Patterns of Evidence movies by Tim Mahony? The first two were very scholarly, and the newest one will be playing for one day only on February 18. Check your local theaters! The Red Sea crossing will be the focus of this one. The fourth one is coming out in May and I expect that will cover the real Mt Sinai. Joel Richardson has started to lead tours there with the permission of the Saudi government believe it or not. I actually downloaded a brochure the other day. This year's trip is scheduled the day after Sukkot, and we are planning on being in Israel so that's out. Lol.

 

[rockfox]

Until tonight doing some more research, I thought I was the only one to see divorce in this passage.
I was talking with my nephew about it and he says an old pastor of his always taught that Moses was divorced from Zipporah, though for less reasons than I have listed above. He did not know the source of why his old pastor thought this way.

I also found this tonight here in which he quotes another commentator Ba’al HaTurim as saying that this was the case.
View attachment 1527

That image says the language could be translated that way. But also, could not. I'm beyond my depth at this point on the language. However it goes on to say Zipporah was never mentioned again in the Torah; which isn't true. It acts like she left never to come back but in fact her father brought her back and left her with Moses.

 

[steve]

I read somewhere that the way to deal with a wife (in some strands of Jewish culture) who was failing in an area of attitude was to send her back to her mother for retraining.
Could that be what we are looking at here? Almost a divorce but a divorce wasn’t necessary after she got her mind right?
Did Moses tell her family that she wasn’t acceptable in his tent until she had an attitude adjustment?
Did her father bring her back with a repentant and submitted mindset?

 

[The Revolting Man]

I read somewhere that the way to deal with a wife (in some strands of Jewish culture) who was failing in an area of attitude was to send her back to her mother for retraining.
Could that be what we are looking at here? Almost a divorce but a divorce wasn’t necessary after she got her mind right?
Did Moses tell her family that she wasn’t acceptable in his tent until she had an attitude adjustment?
Did her father bring her back with a repentant and submitted mindset?

Interesting...

 

[IshChayil]

That's from the strongs definition, I missed that as I looked at the BDB, which I'm informed is more accurate, and does not state that. Not a single English translation on Biblehub translates this as a divorce, so I'm at a loss. Maybe @IshChayil can clarify.

Sorry I'm late on this. Took a break from Bib. Fam.
The word shalach "send away" means just that. In context with a written document of "sending away" it means divorce.
In the case with Moses sending away his wife when he reached Egypt, the text is ambiguous; it's the same word used when Pharaoh sends away Moses and they weren't married.
Good call on Strongs, don't trust it ever guys. You're right about BDB that's much better, based on the monumental work by German Orientalist W. Gesenius, a master of several Ancient Near Eastern languages.
BDB is outdated but light years better than Strongs.

So in the context of Moses the ambiguity of the text has some of the sages thinking he actually divorced Tsipporah while the more popular opinion is Aaron says to him, "we're trying to leave and you're bringing more in! send away your wife and children brother." (midrash but it demonstrates the attempt to find a solution other than divorce to the text).

Understanding that Moses is still married to Tsipporah gives us some understanding why his sister Miriam later Lashan Hara's him when she's upset that he "married a Cushite woman."

 

[rockfox]

Sorry I'm late on this. Took a break from Bib. Fam.
The word shalach "send away" means just that. In context with a written document of "sending away" it means divorce.
In the case with Moses sending away his wife when he reached Egypt, the text is ambiguous; it's the same word used when Pharaoh sends away Moses and they weren't married.
Good call on Strongs, don't trust it ever guys. You're right about BDB that's much better, based on the monumental work by German Orientalist W. Gesenius, a master of several Ancient Near Eastern languages.
BDB is outdated but light years better than Strongs.

So in the context of Moses the ambiguity of the text has some of the sages thinking he actually divorced Tsipporah while the more popular opinion is Aaron says to him, "we're trying to leave and you're bringing more in! send away your wife and children brother." (midrash but it demonstrates the attempt to find a solution other than divorce to the text).

Understanding that Moses is still married to Tsipporah gives us some understanding why his sister Miriam later Lashan Hara's him when she's upset that he "married a Cushite woman."

Thank you for chiming in. "In context with a written document of "sending away" it means divorce." was the part I missed.

I was so informed by you on the relative strength of BDB over strongs. But that was some time ago and in the time since using BDB I've found it to hold true, much more specificity and detail. Strongs is much more abbreviated which covers over the complexity in the source language and tends to mislead. Though it is better than nothing.

Do the midrash's lend any insight on what happens to children after divorce in Hebrew custom?

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Sorry I'm late on this. Took a break from Bib. Fam.
The word shalach "send away" means just that. In context with a written document of "sending away" it means divorce.
In the case with Moses sending away his wife when he reached Egypt, the text is ambiguous; it's the same word used when Pharaoh sends away Moses and they weren't married.

I’d agree with you about the word shalach. It can be used for divorce in certain circumstances, but will always be noted by the context of the passage. However, Moses didn’t shalach Zipporah, he shilluwach’ed her. I have found where Pharoah shalach’ed Moses, but cannot find where Pharoah shilluwach’d Moses. Reference?

So in the context of Moses the ambiguity of the text has some of the sages thinking he actually divorced Tsipporah while the more popular opinion is Aaron says to him, "we're trying to leave and you're bringing more in! send away your wife and children brother." (midrash but it demonstrates the attempt to find a solution other than divorce to the text

This is an interesting habit that seems to keep popping up. I noticed it in Josephus as there is no mention of Moses sending her back to her father. I also noticed the absence of any mention of the golden calf and its worship which seems conspicuous for its marked absence.

 

[Pacman]

I read somewhere that the way to deal with a wife (in some strands of Jewish culture) who was failing in an area of attitude was to send her back to her mother for retraining.
Could that be what we are looking at here? Almost a divorce but a divorce wasn’t necessary after she got her mind right?
Did Moses tell her family that she wasn’t acceptable in his tent until she had an attitude adjustment?
Did her father bring her back with a repentant and submitted mindset?

That may be the culture but Paul seems to indicate that the job is the husband's not her parents...

Ephesians 5:25-27 NASB
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, [26] so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, [27] that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

 

[steve]

That may be the culture but Paul seems to indicate that the job is the husband's not her parents...

Ephesians 5:25-27 NASB
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, [26] so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, [27] that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

I agree with that for most things, but there can come a time when things seem impossible.
At that point “Return to Sender” for a reset is preferable to divorce.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I read somewhere that the way to deal with a wife (in some strands of Jewish culture) who was failing in an area of attitude was to send her back to her mother for retraining.

There is a song for every occasion. I'm sure of it.

 

[steve]

There is a song for every occasion. I'm sure of it.

Too funny!

 

[rockfox]

Sadly, Angelique's mother didn't take her back and you've married her granddaughter. We're a few generations removed from good housekeeping.

 

[FollowingHim]

There is a song for every occasion. I'm sure of it.

We finally watched that last night, and it's still stuck in my head. Awesome song!

 

[Joleneakamama]

We finally watched that last night, and it's still stuck in my head. Awesome song!

I had a great aunt who's daughter "had to" get married. It was after she was a teen wife that her mother taught her how to clean a house.
We are doing what we can to raise daughters that are better prepared for life. They can cook, clean, tend children AND they will be told at the appropriate age about the other part of a woman's cycle too.....the part that does the equivalent of "twitterpating" to girls called ovulation. It makes average dumb boys appear to be way more then they are. Every gal should be told not to trust her perceptions at those times. (Though if they are anything like me they will not let their heart get involved before their mind and dad says it's smart.)

 

[steve]

I agree with that for most things, but there can come a time when things seem impossible.
At that point “Return to Sender” for a reset is preferable to divorce.

Sometimes things are right in front of you and you don’t recognize them. I just realized my own parallel story to this statement.
My first second-wife took herself to her mother’s nigh unto 4 years ago in an attempt to reset me.

It doesn’t work that way.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Sometimes things are right in front of you and you don’t recognize them. I just realized my own parallel story to this statement.
My first second-wife took herself to her mother’s nigh unto 4 years ago in an attempt to reset me.

It doesn’t work that way.

That’s an interesting statement. Color me curious to your thoughts here, but I totally understand if you may not wanna elaborate.