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Mike Winger

I endured watching for 5 minutes, read some of the comments, and gave up.
Yea it’s getting worse. This looks like it’s going to blow up into a whole thing.
It's sad listening to Mike's derogatory and misleading comments, then reading those making supportive comments to his error. I thank God He knows those that are His because it's really hard to tell who the real believers are any more.
 
I was in the comment section (OttoM and BibleisHoly) doing the best I can - along with Pete. Saw him there - trying our best to guard the torah (divine instructions) as the apple of our eyes - when it comes to the topic of polygyny, marriage, and divorce.

I've never been a fan of Mike. I've seen before how he will compromise on the Word of YAH. To love the Father in Heaven is the 1st greatest commandment. When you throw his Word under the bus -- then how can you fulfill that commandment?
 
because it's really hard to tell who the real believers are any more.
Isaiah 8:20
Look to the torah and the testimony! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark.

That's how we know. Test all things with the Scriptures. It's fine if someone is in error by mistake. But to reject correction is the killer. King David admitted his fault. He repented. He was forgiven. Now compare that with Saul. Saul made excuses. Didn't repent. And what was the message from YAH? Rebellion is like the sin of witchcraft.
 
If his followers hate polygyny - fine. But then don't fornicate. Don't marry pagan men. Solomon marrying pagan women is what collapsed the United Kingdom of Israel into two divided Kingdoms (which are still divided today).

They'll see very quickly there's not much out there - in terms of monogamy.

Therefore, most Christian women would have to remain un-married, and remain virgins.

My question - is that what they are doing? Absolutely not. They are fornicating. Having abortions. Marrying pagan men. Then throwing men like Moses and Abraham under the bus. The Creator's righteous and perfect torah - thrown under the bus. It doesn't help that the law of the land - and the culture of western civilization - promotes sleeping around. What they are doing is helping the kingdom of Darkness grow - meanwhile the Kingdom of YAH is getting smaller and smaller. That's why there is no peace in the land. Instead it's increased lawlessness, and now the curses are coming.
 
whats the mia fallacy?
@Daniel DeLuca summarized it. “Mia” is a Greek word that the smart people tel me can mean “a” or the number “one”. If you must have a wife it doesn’t preclude you from having two or more wives but if you must have one wife you can only have the one.

It becomes an issue because of Paul’s instructions to Timothy about elders; they must be the husband of “mia” wife. Is it “a” wife or “one” wife? We say it means “a” wife but either way the passage implicitly allows polygyny for non-bishops. As every New Testament case we can make hold great value I think it’s an important passage.
 
If his followers hate polygyny - fine. But then don't fornicate. Don't marry pagan men. Solomon marrying pagan women is what collapsed the United Kingdom of Israel into two divided Kingdoms (which are still divided today).

They'll see very quickly there's not much out there - in terms of monogamy.

Therefore, most Christian women would have to remain un-married, and remain virgins.

My question - is that what they are doing? Absolutely not. They are fornicating. Having abortions. Marrying pagan men. Then throwing men like Moses and Abraham under the bus. The Creator's righteous and perfect torah - thrown under the bus. It doesn't help that the law of the land - and the culture of western civilization - promotes sleeping around. What they are doing is helping the kingdom of Darkness grow - meanwhile the Kingdom of YAH is getting smaller and smaller. That's why there is no peace in the land. Instead it's increased lawlessness, and now the curses are coming.
There are some godly women who are not fornicating. I like to point out to people the fact that they are forbidding these women marriage, which Paul laid out as a doctrine of demons.
 
I endured watching for 5 minutes, read some of the comments, and gave up.

It's sad listening to Mike's derogatory and misleading comments, then reading those making supportive comments to his error. I thank God He knows those that are His because it's really hard to tell who the real believers are any more.
When you get sick to you stomach of listening to this, turn off the sound and bring up the transcript. It is much easier to stomach than when you get hit by one ridiculous statement after another. That gives you the ability to respond point by point.
 
When you get sick to you stomach of listening to this, turn off the sound and bring up the transcript. It is much easier to stomach than when you get hit by one ridiculous statement after another. That gives you the ability to respond point by point.
that's a pretty good idea
sounds like you are saying the error is being made by the anti-polygyny crowd who point to this scripture as support for their argument without understanding the greek "mia?" if so then i think it makes more sense that the error not be named with reference to the greek.
If his followers hate polygyny - fine. But then don't fornicate. Don't marry pagan men. Solomon marrying pagan women is what collapsed the United Kingdom of Israel into two divided Kingdoms (which are still divided today).
if im not mistaken i have heard pete say that god "always saw" israel as 2, or "always intended" for them to become 2
 
There are some godly women who are not fornicating. I like to point out to people the fact that they are forbidding these women marriage, which Paul laid out as a doctrine of demons.
That’s the key word “some.” Most will go and fornicate and then end up falling for a non-believer or someone who only gives lip service - but never actually took the time to study scripture.

A father sending his daughter to college - as a virgin - with no husband - is a mistake. Chances are she’s going to fool around. Torah tells the fathers - don’t let your daughters play the whore.
 
if im not mistaken i have heard pete say that god "always saw" israel as 2, or "always intended" for them to become 2
Through the prophets - we learn that the Creator saw them as two sisters - the two wives - even when they were in Egypt.

But they were united together under one king. Yes they were still two wives - but United together.

After Solomon they became divided and the northern kingdom (Ephraim) went into constant rebellion. Meanwhile in Judah - at times they had good kings every now and then.

Future prophecy - the Messiah - when he fulfills the last holy day - sukkot - he will gather Ephraim and Judah in a greater exodus. Not yet happened.
 
That’s the key word “some.” Most will go and fornicate and then end up falling for a non-believer or someone who only gives lip service - but never actually took the time to study scripture.

A father sending his daughter to college - as a virgin - with no husband - is a mistake. Chances are she’s going to fool around. Torah tells the fathers - don’t let your daughters play the whore.
I would qualify that college bit. I knew some godly ladies even at the secular university that I attended, but if your daughter is not well grounded in the faith, and she has been raised in a public school setting, pitfalls do indeed abound. I would be interested though to get an opinion on this from @Maia, since she may be considering going off to college when she graduates.

EDIT: Alcohol may also play a role in someone's judgment.
 
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I would qualify that college bit. I knew some godly ladies even at the secular university that I attended, but if your daughter is not well grounded in the faith, and she has been raised in a public school setting, pitfalls do indeed abound. I would be interested though to get an opinion on this from @Maia, since she may be considering going off to college when she graduates.
Statistically speaking - very few girls remain virgins between 18-22. Seniors in high schools, and the college years. They are sleeping around, and then expect monogamy only.

Meanwhile righteous women in the past - kept their virginity - and expected polygyny.
 
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@Daniel DeLuca summarized it. “Mia” is a Greek word that the smart people tel me can mean “a” or the number “one”. If you must have a wife it doesn’t preclude you from having two or more wives but if you must have one wife you can only have the one.

It becomes an issue because of Paul’s instructions to Timothy about elders; they must be the husband of “mia” wife. Is it “a” wife or “one” wife? We say it means “a” wife but either way the passage implicitly allows polygyny for non-bishops. As every New Testament case we can make hold great value I think it’s an important passage.
It's funny! JD, in his debate against @PeteR and @biblemarriages called it "Greekifying". Yet when they argue against God giving David his wives, they themselves resort to "Hebrewifying".
 
Next debate, we need to use that as a setup. Bring up mia, and let them criticize our Greek, and then we mention God giving David his wives, and when they try to refute it with the argument that we don't know what that Hebrew word translated "wife" actually means, we can point out that they are "Hebrewifying".
 
sounds like you are saying the error is being made by the anti-polygyny crowd who point to this scripture as support for their argument without understanding the greek "mia?" if so then i think it makes more sense that the error not be named with reference to the greek.
The best way to deal with that, is to look up every usage of the word Mia, and give example after example of how it has been translated into English. I don't personally use this tactic to argue that it is OK for bishops, deacons, and elders, but exegetically, for those who do use this tactic, anyone who bases their opposition to polygyny on that passage would have no choice but to acknowlege it, if there is an overwhelming amount of evidence against the current rendering in most translations. The obstacle that we often run into, is that the anti-poly folks have this invisible army of "experts" that they like to come back with. It is not enough to convince us, but it is enough to convince some people who are on the fence.
 
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The obstacle that we often run into, is that the anti-poly folks have this invisible army of "experts" that they like to come back with.
Sounds like they come from the same cloth as the “fact checkers” in the mainstream news channels.

Isaiah 2:17
Human pride will be humbled, and human arrogance will be brought down. Only YAHUAH will be exalted on that day of judgment.
 
@Daniel DeLuca summarized it. “Mia” is a Greek word that the smart people tel me can mean “a” or the number “one”. If you must have a wife it doesn’t preclude you from having two or more wives but if you must have one wife you can only have the one.

It becomes an issue because of Paul’s instructions to Timothy about elders; they must be the husband of “mia” wife. Is it “a” wife or “one” wife? We say it means “a” wife but either way the passage implicitly allows polygyny for non-bishops. As every New Testament case we can make hold great value I think it’s an important passage.
As far as I know "mia" means both "one" and "first". Correct meaning is decided by context which, in this case means, translator's theology will decide.
 
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