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Prayer request Meeting the Pastors

That is completely insane then. They have no Biblical authority to place another man in authority over your wife. Nor do they have any secular legal authority. They sound drunk on imagined power.

The key thing here is to work out how to get Grace also to reject this attempt by them to control her behaviour. You can reject it, but you've got problems with her submission to you. But if she could understand that this is illegitimate power-hungry nonsense, and the two of you really do need to work out your problems yourselves not be ordered around by others who imagine themselves to be in authority over you, that would be a major step towards functioning as a team.
 
The other side of this is to talk to the youth pastor, help him to see that this is illegitimate, and have him reject it. Many years ago, I was appointed as the chairman of a church committee investigating a certain matter. Eventually, I came to understand that the committee itself had been appointed illegitimately (in my opinion), and I resigned as chairman. That caused a major upset in the entire process, and the task of the committee ceased (rightly or wrongly, and in considerable strife). Churches can be a mess...

My point though is that he is an absolutely critical person for the entire procedure. If he comes to realise that he has been appointed illegitimately as authority over another man's wife with no scriptural precedent, and rejects the role, the whole thing will fall through - and in a manner that would be quite embarrassing for the pastors and likely make it difficult for them to find anyone else willing to take that position either.
 
FollowingHim said:
The key thing here is to work out how to get Grace also to reject this attempt by them to control her behaviour. You can reject it, but you've got problems with her submission to you. But if she could understand that this is illegitimate power-hungry nonsense, and the two of you really do need to work out your problems yourselves not be ordered around by others who imagine themselves to be in authority over you, that would be a major step towards functioning as a team.
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The rhetorically powerful way to deal with this (also truthful) is to call it what it is: cult like behavior. The church has no legitimate Biblical role in marriage formation/governance. It is only cults that presume to control who may marry whom or to take way and reassign wives. To give in marriage and to terminate a marriage are authorities only given to the father and husband respectively.

'Cult' is pretty much the 3rd rail poison pill accusation among Christians. None want to be associated with any group that even has overtones with it and this is actual cultish behavior.
 
If they retort that poly is heterodox just point out it was practiced by the mainstream church for hundreds of years until the Greek influenced Roman church banned it, for 1100 years by the Ethiopian Orthodox, for 1600 years by the Celtic Christians and as long as 1800 years by some English (Scottish?) Christians. Christian theologians from John Chrysostom to Martin Luther have taught it as acceptable practice. Hard monogamy comes not from Christian scriptures but from Roman civil law.
 
rockfox said:
The rhetorically powerful way to deal with this (also truthful) is to call it what it is: cult like behavior.
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I was thinking exactly the same yesterday, and only didn't post it here because I had already said a lot. But it is very, very true. This is the behaviour of a cult - and this church is not a cult, so should not engage in it lest they become one.

Point out to the youth pastor that this sort of instruction is only given in cults, he is being asked to act in a cultlike role, and you're shocked anyone in a mainstream church would even ask him do do something so questionable.
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
Well the pastor has convinced me of one thing. I had argued that this was a minor doctrinal difference and we should be able to agree to disagree. Now I am convinced that this is serious and is the root cause of the sickness in the body.
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The root cause of the problem is that they follow culture instead of scripture and God.

It is hard to remember that they are not the enemy. They are victims.

It like that movie where you could only see the truth if you have special glasses. Be glad that you have been one of those blessed with special glasses, but the decieved are not the enemy.

In any case you are going to have to really fight and pray to retain your wife.
 
cnystrom said:
The root cause of the problem is that they follow culture instead of scripture and God.
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It also came as an epiphany that polygamy is not the root cause of your marriage problem, but it is that you all are not following the Christ and the Church model and polygamy, or not, you will need to re-establish that relationship. That might have been in your vows, too. And fixing this is more important that fixing your local congregation, as tempting as that might be.
 
cnystrom said:
It also came as an epiphany that polygamy is not the root cause of your marriage problem, but it is that you all are not following the Christ and the Church model and polygamy, or not, you will need to re-establish that relationship. That might have been in your vows, too. And fixing this is more important that fixing your local congregation, as tempting as that might be.
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Oh, I know.
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
I didn't read this wrong. I was informed that our youth pastor who I served under for 11 years was appointed to this. Ironically, this man is the only one at our church who has sought my counsel when he was unsure. I pity him and how he may be being used.
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Wait! He sought your advice on the topic of polygamy? But now he is pretty sure that PM is wrong?
 
cnystrom said:
The root cause of the problem is that they follow culture
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And, my epiphany!!!

CULTure... that explains a whole lot about the world and why free thinkers get blasted!!
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
No, I have not.
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Are you looking forward to it? I suppose I get more excited about those types of opportunities, than other pro-poly folks do. Watch for logical fallacies, because you know that he will employ them left and right.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
I suppose I get more excited about those types of opportunities, than other pro-poly folks do.
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I do too, that and politics - but whenever I'm excited over something like that, I'm more likely to say or do something that makes the situation simply more adversarial. I have to move past the excitement to a place where it's boring again, to then be able to calmly move the situation in a positive direction.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Wait! He sought your advice on the topic of polygamy? But now he is pretty sure that PM is wrong?
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When I said he was appointed to this, I was referring to the senior pastor saying "the man my wife is supposed to be accountable to." and at the time I was not told who that was or why. In the most recent communication that was spelled out.

2. Whereas we determined that our youth pastor should remain outside of the process of hearing and rendering the Judgment you requested. This was so that he might provide care of your family without the responsibility to come down on one side or the other of the dispute.
 
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Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
This was so that he might provide care of your family without the responsibility to come down on one side or the other of the dispute.
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Whoa! That's some pretty scary language. Was there a biblical precedent they cited?
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Are you looking forward to it? I suppose I get more excited about those types of opportunities, than other pro-poly folks do. Watch for logical fallacies, because you know that he will employ them left and right.
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I already did this with the senior and administrative pastor. I presented face to face then they asked questions but did not debate. Then they emailed me their logical fallacies and accusations of adultery of the mind. I wrote back pointing out how they were not following the agreed rules of interpretation and were reading into the text. I am not looking forward to what comes next because, my wife is leaving me with the pastors' blessing and they have promised to move forward with church discipline. Actually the senior pastor is insisting I leave my home or I am breaking my word to submit the their judgement!
 
That's hard to hear. My heart is heavy for you brother. Probably goes without saying but leaving your home is a bad move; it would paint you in a bad light. You are the head that unites the members of your body – whether they come or go, you remain steadfast. Be the likeness of "I am" in your family. Leaving says, "I have issues that I need to deal with", among other things.


It has always worked out for the best when I always go to bed in my bed when my wife is upset. Never the couch, never somewhere else. It enables her to deal with her issues because she then has a choice to draw near or take a step back. I have found that even when she chooses some space for herself, or the couch, she always comes back. She knows I will always take her back. Make that abundantly clear.

This is an opportunity for love.
 
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