• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

It is shameful for a woman to be uncovered

And yet 1 Corinthians 7:34-38 sits there right in the middle of your plate like vegetables that you don't want to touch. It doesn't matter at all to my argument that anything that the scripture records doesn't usually happen in real life. The argument that an unmarried woman is in rebellion against her purpose is hollow if scripture allows her to be so.

So I agree with you on this. These are the nuns. The women who dedicate themselves to God and not men. The godly older widows Paul says needn't marry. Female eunichs for God. No problem here, they have no compulsion to marry, so long as they remain under male headship otherwise.

But you and I both know that this isn't 'a thing' today; not outside of Catholic/Orthodox nuns anyway (and even there it is rare). Almost all unmarried women want to get married eventually, just not yet. Almost all do not live in their fathers house. Almost none have sworn off men, unless they've hit that age where they've given up trying (after wasting their young fertile years when they could have gotten a husband). Just as Paul says the older widows needn't remarry, he also insists the younger ones must remarry.

In theory, yes I agree with you. This would be acceptable. But in practice, Protestant women don't do this and that's not what going on with the vast majority of women who aren't married. 1 Corinthians 7:34-38 isn't a get out of jail card for women who don't marry. In the first place, the "the difficulties of the present time" have passed; that wasn't even Paul's advice by the time he wrote 1 Timothy 5. Secondly, virtually no fathers prohibit their daughters from marrying and lastly, we don't have nuns; virtually no Protestant women are taking lifetime oaths of celibacy to serve God alone.

Clearly we have no disagreement there. At least I hope that's clear. If it's not clear: here goes "I'm not talking about fornicating women". I suppose there are loose women out there who sleep around while delaying marriage that also are considering covering their heads with a cloth or growing their hair out, but give me the credit that I'm not setting myself up as their defender.

Well, admittedly there are very few women in all of American Christianity that cover. Yet at the same time, few American Christians even know that passage is in their Bible. My point is more, you talk about some rare exception, but those rare exceptions are well, non-existent, but the average Christian woman will read what you wrote and think it applies to them.

huh... highest priority, eh? Are we still talking about the fornicating woman or have you just introduced a celibate woman not seeking a man as her equivalent?

It is tricky to make generalizations. Ask most early to mid 20something women and they'll say they want to get married and are looking for 'the one'. But in truth, they're just sleeping around and/or won't get serious about settling down until their late 20s. There's a pretty strong correlation between a woman's age and how serious she is looking for a mate in America today. The earnestness with which a 32 year old looks is about what a 20 year old of a couple generations ago would have treated it. But the early 20 year olds today? Even Christian? Not looking very hard, if they are even willing to consider it at all.

Where we need to be is young women earnestly pursuing marriage in their late teens/early 20's and most being married by that time. What instead we see today is few doing that and most only starting to look as they approach their 30s; after they've squandered their fertility.

Which is just answering a question with a question. You got a specific spiritual disadvantage for me, or do you only have the assumption that there is one? Give me your evidence, not your rhetoric.

It's a rhetorical question to point out the obvious. Logic....women were created for a purpose (marriage and helpmeet) -> they are supposed to be in headship under a man (1 cor 11) -> rejecting all those things (saving nuns) is rebellion against God. Of course there will be consequences. How could there not be? To say there wouldn't be would be to say woman can rebel against God with impunity.

We both actually agree about women needing a covering on their head as a symbol of their authority, and I'm right there with you as far as that very likely hindering their prayers. But what if that prayer cloth sits atop a face made for radio? Where's her rebellion? What'd she do wrong?

I see, so you're saying what about the ugly girls? If they're not pretty enough to secure a guy how is that their fault? In theory, sure I could see them innocent. But they should still live under authority (father, uncle, brother, church, etc). These could be thought of as the female counterpart to Christ's "eunichs by God or made that way for the kingdom of God" if they dedicate themselves to serving God and swear off marriage.

But have you looked outside lately? Obesity (the sin of glutony) runs rampant. Never has it been easier for a woman to compete for a man as today... stay thin, be pleasant, cultivate traditional homemaking skills, maintain your virtue, have sorrowful repentance for sin. All within reach of any woman. All enjoined by scripture. Do that and there will be a man for you. Except in rare extreme cases a less than perfect face isn't going to stop you.

But what might stop you from getting a husband is a feminist attitude, gluttony, a complete lack of homemaking skills, an unwillingness to get out and find men, or an overinflated sense of what one deserves in a mate.

This is one of those areas where physical and behavioral appeal often go together. Gluttony leads to ugliness. Feminist bitterness uglifies women. Taking action to become a better wife prospect overcomes lack of prettiness. Even in this age of media beauty expectations, many men understand porn-star hot women often aren't the best candidates for marriage.

So while I can agree with you that yes, most single or unmarried women out there are probably in some form of rebellion, I don't see what makes them so special. After all I'd also say that most married Christian women are ALSO in rebellion against their God-appointed role as submissive to their own husbands.

Just because most women are in rebellion, doesn't insulate them from consequences of rebellion. I'm not excusing married women who rebel against their head.

Rather we should encourage unmarried people who have no physical need (hormonal or otherwise) for a spouse to dedicate themselves to God.

I personally know a man who is a great guy, but I don't think he should have gotten married. It's too late now obviously, but he served the Lord with passion and self-abandonment when he was single; and he had zero problems with his sex drive. He testifies himself that he didn't really need a woman but one attached herself to him and he just went along with the flow, and now his life is marked by a lesser dedication to pleasing God, and countless worldly distractions. Exactly what the bible said would happen.

I don't know how you'd view this situation. I have it in mind that you think what he did is what was best, because he provided a covering for a young woman and put her womb into childbearing action. I think the Church was robbed of a hero. I don't judge my brother at all for this: He has not sinned. But I long to see men and women who have left the world and its pleasures behind.

I agree with you, we need to recapture the value of celebacy. Protestantism tossed the baby out with the bath water when they rejected the practice of nuns and monks. Quite frankly, there are a small number of young women who naturally are unsuited to marriage, and a larger natural number of such young men. But vows of celibacy isn't what is stopping young Christians from marrying today; its the pursuit of worldly goals instead of Godly ones.

Now here is my "really really real" question: What specific, spiritual disadvantage does a woman who is unmarried and has no father to live under have?

You know, a lot of the answer to this is we just don't know. Guardian angles are a thing (as documented by Enoch). But the Bible says nothing of them or their benefit. The workings of the spiritual world are not well explained.

Eph 5 provides some answers here though if we turn the question on its head...what spiritual benefit does a husband bring to a woman? Those are the things she goes without when she refuses to be in submission. Some of it is obvious...someone to pray for her, wash her in the word, look over her spiritually and work to her sanctification. But there is hint here of greater 'spiritual warfare' like benefits I can't even speak to. Does a husband provide a spiritual hedge of protection? I'd say so.

Though as I've implied above, a lack of father isn't an excuse, as in old times headship over her should pass to a male relative or other local spiritual authority.
 
If I can speak blatant heresy (on this site, at least) I think the prayers of a celibate woman do more for the kingdom than the womb of a married one, just like I think that the ministry of an unmarried man does more for the Kingdom than the issue of a patriarch.

I’d agree with you on this one Slumberfreeze, but only in the very short term. In the long term, Godly families always have the largest lasting impact on a culture.
 
Well shoot guys. With @rockfox I'm mostly in agreement, but a few degrees off because I differ in tactics 0n "how to encourage the behavior I want to see", because there are few things about what you say that I could even say are inaccurate.

In the long term, Godly families always have the largest lasting impact on a culture.

You may be right. I tend to prioritize what I think nets the most 'eternal reward' over what might have the most practical cultural impact. Which might make me greedy, but every culture will pass away while yours truly is forever.

But I think the body needs both. I think the church needs intense breeders and celibate God-seekers and neither one can really do the job of the other.
 
My perspective on this tends to stem from the knowledge that the celibate approach for the immediate good originated from the mistaken belief that Christ’s return was imminent. Obviously it wasn’t. I cant help but wonder what the world would look like today if every First Century father took on the Abraham challenge to order his family after him.

The Muslims are playing the same long game I’m proposing. I wonder how many believers they will birth this year that they will never have to convert?
 
I’d agree with you on this one Slumberfreeze, but only in the very short term. In the long term, Godly families always have the largest lasting impact on a culture.

More babies = more prayers
 
I’d agree with you on this one Slumberfreeze, but only in the very short term. In the long term, Godly families always have the largest lasting impact on a culture.

I agree with this, though I think we underestimate the impact one person of faith can have in prayer. Prayer warriors aren't a thing in our churchian culture and prayer is tepid at best.
 
celibate approach for the immediate good originated from the mistaken belief that Christ’s return was imminent.
Possibly combined with the persecution that the church was under at that point.
1 Corinthians 7:26 (KJV) I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, [I say], that [it is] good for a man so to be.
 
Back
Top