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How do you, the women of this forum get over the "unfairness" of patriarchy, especially polygyny?
- Thread starter raulus
- Start date
Very good point, thankyou.
This thread has gone insane. We have spend dozens of hours proving what? We know what Scripture says. It seems that only result was driving @MeganC from forum.
It's simple. Let me make it clear:
1. There is man and woman.
2. Both are voluntary in relationship
3. Relationship works only if it's for benefit of them both
4. Relationship works best when both are doing their God-given roles
Don't overcomplicate. See what is right in front of you.
It's simple. Let me make it clear:
1. There is man and woman.
2. Both are voluntary in relationship
3. Relationship works only if it's for benefit of them both
4. Relationship works best when both are doing their God-given roles
Don't overcomplicate. See what is right in front of you.
For what reason though. No one said anything unkind or untruthful, as far as I can see. Truth was presented as best as we can present in a clear way that wasn't demeaning. No one called others any names except the one person that got upset. For me personally, I had no ulterior motives, other than to correct what I saw was incorrect information.
If anyone can point out where anyone was unkind or untruthful to any forum member, other than what I mentioned, would be interested to know where that happened, so we can adjust ourselves accordingly.
Everyone here knows men's authority. Any additional discussion is finding hot water again.
If topic was how to become good leader, marks of good leadership it could be good. Something new could be learned.
Instead we spent time circling about:
1. Men have authority
2. Followers do insist on good authority.
How much hours has gone into reading posts, thinking about them and writing answers.
If student runs away from classroom, teaching was done wrong.
This can only be true if one considers students to lack either agency or responsibility. The bottom-up style of management or leadership has turned out to be an utter failure. Relying on judging professor performance at universities only served to accelerate the woke agendas.
I'm also not a fan of suppressing voices for the sake of avoiding making others feel uncomfortable. I don't believe Megan was "run off" any more than anyone should believe I was "run off" either time I've taken lengthy breaks from the forums. Given what I've experienced of Megan over time, I can only assume she actually has other pressing concerns that complicate participation right now. I also assume she'll be back when she's ready, so it won't be profitable for those here in her absence to pull punches, because that will only diminish the depth of discussions in service of magical thinking that wrongly concludes that everyone is fragile and/or that those who are fragile will somehow benefit from everyone else pretending to be fragile as well.
Thank you @Keith Martin for articulating so nicely what I wish I was able to say. Self should never be our focus except perhaps when it's searching one's soul in true repentance over sin that has offended our Holy God. See Psalm 51 for such an example, but even then David was concerned for God's praise and pleasure. Shalom brother.
If we discuss matters relating to patriarchy, we're being repetitive, but if we discuss anything else, we're being off-topic. There's a reason to argue against having every discussion. Yet we will discuss something, otherwise what are we doing here?
Always? Really? Every time a student runs away, the teacher did something wrong? 100 percent of the time?
I'm not sure this is accurate. Look at any classroom and you have a whole range of students. Good students, bad students, students who don't want to be there, and students who run away just because they hate school. And yes, students who run away due to bad teacher.
Agreed 100%!
plus students who run because things are happening at home they don’t yet have words to articulate or have control over and school is actually their safe space.
Separate than that, I remember as a child, I was a runner. I ran at school, at the doctors office, at church. I have vivid memories of sweet ladies chasing me. I can say with absolute confidence, it wasn’t those sweet ladies. It was my default response. Thank you NBTX11 for recognizing the myriad of reasons, logical or illogical, that exist.
If some of you men don't want women to comment on your topics then post them in the section where we can't comment. Otherwise you are inviting comments whether you like them or not.
"by one man sin entered the world"
Or maybe I don't like being told to shut up.
well-documented in Jonathan Cahn's book Return of the gods
That was a moderation failure. Can you send one of us the link? We’ll correct it.
You responded to me in each of these instances, Megan, so I won't pretend I can answer for everyone else, but I can assure you with all candor that I wasn't even beginning to suggest that I don't want you to comment on this or any other topic. However, as mentioned in the post of mine to which you responded, you referenced I Corinthians 11:3, so it's time to draw a distinction between commenting and schooling (aka taking someone to the woodshed). Commenting should always be welcome, but schooling is another matter, as time and place are both relevant. Even though I somewhat agree with your point of view on male leadership imperatives, it's clear to me that this is an Agenda Item for you, and you injected it into the discussion. That is your right, but when you push it to the point that you did by declaring that only men who meet the standards you're setting are worthy of being plural husbands (or anything else), you are turning I Corinthians 11:3 on its head. You're not just commenting; you're asserting female privilege to reject I Corinthians 11:3 when it doesn't meet your approval. When a woman does that, she's usurping authority that more properly belongs to Yah, Yeshua and, in some cases, other men. (As I pointed out elsewhere, women have no more 'right' to refuse to be submissive than men have the right to refuse to lead or love -- even when men aren't leading/loving or women aren't being submissive.)
Here, in these forums, you have the right to attempt to school men on how they should be leading, but that right is accompanied by the responsibility to risk the natural ramifications of invoking that right. I don't really remember anyone telling you to "shut up," but even if someone did, it's not incumbent on the person who wants you to shut up to keep his mouth shut or run off to a secret playground; it's incumbent on you to accept that that is just part of the rough-and-tumble. Expecting men to take a woman's advice without him recoiling somewhat while recoiling yourself because they're not entirely politely reacting to your assertions is incongruent. And, I would assert, out of character for the @MeganC I know and love.
Yeah, @MeganC, I don't think anybody necessarily wants you to shutup. In fact, @raulus asked for women's opinions. I know my rebuttal set you off, and I should have left the first two paragraphs out of it as they had nothing to do with--and detracted from--the message. (Although, for the record, that preface was not so much aimed at you as it was calling out a few others who I knew were negligent to judge rightly because of the nature of the situation and their own fear of public opinion and emotional outbursts. The balance is probably somewhere between them and me.) The purpose of it was not to shut you up, per se, but to show the error in your mindset and words. Not just the error, but also the right parts, to separate them. Not just to show them to you, but to show them to anyone reading through who might already be struggling with grief or any number of emotions that are being used as toeholds for a temptation to rebel and deny God's Word. I regret making it personal, and I apologize. I should have kept my words confined to content and benched the rest of it. I've gone back and edited the post to remove what I think is the offending and unnecessary bits. Is there anything else I can do to fix what I've done?
This thread has been an interesting read and I in the main agree with what @Keith Martin and @NickF have said, however, I am going to contribute from a slightly different angle.
Firstly the title of this thread
How do you, the women of this forum get over the "unfairness" of patriarchy, especially polygyny?
I have had many a conversation where this position has been put forth by women but I disagree with the very idea.
Firstly, if a man mistreats his Ishah then his prayers are hindered
1 Peter 3:7 KJV — Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Find me a verse for a woman that is as harsh as that, our prayers being hindered as men is just unthinkable for me.
Needless to say I do not think it is unfair because as a man, with authority comes responsibility, and women are a YAH God given responsibility.
I have found personally that being focused on the kingdom of YAH and his will has been more than enough to deal with every woman including daughters, given to me, being given to me and will be enough for any other women YAH gives me, which is why the following statement by @MeganC resonated and I believe has been overlooked.
I am inclined to strongly agree with this statement, because it is what I have experienced. What she has stated above is the truth.
The fact is, no matter how pretty, beautiful, fit, sexy or smexsy etc a woman is, there is NO perfect woman under heaven.
Our women may be perfect for us, however they are still being perfected and washed by the washing of the water of the word we administer as we are as men by MessiYah.
There is a huge push online and it seems to me to be increasingly amongst believers that has this unhealthy focus on women submitting etc, HOWEVER, when woman was gifted to man, man was still the image and likeness / glory of YAH.
We seem to be in a time where
"...The woman that you gave me..."
position is being pushed and monetized to the max. This is where I believe there is a disconnect and gross misunderstanding of YAH God stating we will rule over our women and our women being a coheir with us. Men ruling over women is a result of the fall not a command or statement of authority.
We know we are in the last days and I haven't come across a scripture that states
...in the last days perilous times shall come. For WOMEN shall be ....
The scripture clearly states MEN...
Personally, I have found that women naturally (I think subconsciously) start submitting without knowing the dictionary or biblical definition of what submission is, (and I am by no means perfect by any stretch of the imagination ) the issues that arise from women seem to be aligned with the fact that a vast amount of women have been raised and trained to be single mothers or have a single mother defensive mindset, independent etc.
I don't believe that we as men have to explain to any woman who is not our woman what submission, authority or anything else in that arena is, that responsibility belongs to her husband, if she has an opinion or viewpoint, she is entitled to it, if she is wrong her husband will deal with it eventually. We should be very aware that we are more than likely dealing with someone else's Ishah on and off this platform.
We talk about "authority", and there is also this word "patriarchy" but none of these replacement words for what MAN should mean actually means anything without LOVE.
Scripture is plain GOD IS LOVE his kingdom is founded on LOVE his will is powered by LOVE our salvation is because of LOVE.
There are loads of examples of authority that we can quote or refer to, but, authority means nothing without LOVE, in the same way patriarchy means nothing without LOVE.
We all have been given the capacity to LOVE, give love, receive love and recognize love, but, the skill on HOW to do these three is not a theological debate it's an everyday perfecting LOVE as men, through authority, through fatherhood, through brotherhood, through servanthood etc.
Those whom YAH has given us as men, whether they be women or workers etc, in whatever capacity or sphere of life, will respond, some slower some faster but they will respond, or they will be repelled, nevertheless, love never fails.