I do not think he is one of the twelve, but I am having trouble understanding the importance of the question. Why does it matter?
What matters is the idea that Christ can send messengers, sent ones, apostates, disciples, anointed teachers, or whatever to the world TODAY. If Paul is one of the 12 then his message is canonized and in line with the Gospels and other works of the Apostles that we read about and that is it, we have to read it. Which by the way since the Catholic church did the canonization, they are the ones that brought him to that status. When you hear anyone in Christendom talk about Paul it is always Paul the Apostle.
Now, if Paul shared the gospel and he wasn't' an 'A'postle then he was no different than the 70 or any other believer who shared the Good News to unbelievers. He does not deliver any knew revelations that is different than what Christ shared with the original 'A'postles. He was an anointed teacher that happened to be elevated by the church to the status of Saint. To the point that Paul has become on the same level, in a sense, like Moses of the Old Testament.
There are many odd things about Paul and I have always wonder why people don't pick apart the Epistles of Paul like they do the Old Testament? Pretty much what Paul said is what Paul said and that's it. And actually, Paul is always a witness for Paul. Which is really odd to me.
Paul himself said that he was not a lessor apostle (except in the sense that he persecuted the church). So he was either a full apostle ("capital A in your language"?), or he was a false apostle.
So are you contending that he was a false apostle, or what?
Again, Paul is a witness for himself. Paul first states he heard Christ then he later said he saw Him. He starts out a part of the group but later on becomes alone, preaching 'Paul's' Gospel. John Mark, Barnabas, and Titus had to part ways with Paul. Paul had disagreements with the Apostles. Odd. I am not at all saying he is a false prophet (I don't have enough information) but I am saying that I believe Paul has a message to declare that came from Christ, no different than can be done TODAY for someone that God chooses to use to share His message TODAY. But if Paul is elevated to 'A'psotle then that leaves little room to accept an understanding that God can use a man today to send a message.
Indeed Paul is one of the great pillars of Christendom being the apostle to the Gentiles (Romans 11:13) !
I agree.
I don’t know if Paul is one of the twelve or not. I know that in the New Jerusalem are written the names of The Twelve Apostles of The Lamb. Whether the twelfth is Matthias or Paul we probably won’t know till we get there. The distinction is who commissioned them. .
This I can accept.
Paul was sent by Christ personally. Missionaries today are sent by the church which is the body of Christ but it isn’t the same situation as with the Apostles that Christ appeared to and sent personally. Those Apostles received the doctrine that they taught directly from Jesus Christ. Missionaries today do not have the authority to teach new doctrine. They are to remain steadfast in the Apostle’s doctrine. .
Before you said you were not sure whether Paul was one of the twelve. Here you seem to be saying he is.
If Paul is not one of the twelve then he is a missionary sent by the church. (That's what I say.) Paul never taught 'new doctrine'. What's interesting to me is that somehow there is a distinction between the apostles to the Israelite's (the twelve) and Paul the apostle to the Gentiles. It would seem to me that there are three Testaments, the Old, and New(a) and New(b). And then as it turns out there is neither Jew nor Gentile, just believers. (sorry that's just me rambling. I don't really believe this)
What is faith without the object of that faith? What is it that faith can do? Christ can open blind eyes, heal the sick, and raise the dead whenever he wants, he is sovereign and we must submit to his place and timing. But let us not fall prey to false teachers, false prophets, and false apostles. Test the spirits, check their teaching against the doctrine of the Apostles that we know for sure are Apostles.
Amen.
You are taking the two or three witnesses thing out of context. Do you question whether or not Moses saw the burning bush in the desert? I’m not aware of any other witnesses to that except maybe some sheep. Do you question whether or not God inscribed the tablets of stone on mount Sinai? Or how about Jonah being in the belly of the great fish? No “witnesses” there as far as i know. Or how about John on the isle of Patmos? We have no witnesses to verify what he was seeing in his vision.
These are stories being told by Moses, who wrote God's Law. God is Mose's second witness. Jonah and Revelations is information in a story being passed. Paul justifies himself by his vision, or hearing, or experience. These are all different.
You seem to think that I don’t believe that God can or does miracles today. This is not true. I do believe he can and that he does so where and when he chooses. Miracles are quite rare today, and they have been rare throughout history. The tremendous signs that God preformed through Moses where done to be a sign to the children of Israel and the world to pay attention, God is using this man to bring the Word of God and write it down.
It was the same with the Apostles, God preformed miraculous signs, “the signs of an Apostle”, through them to tell, first Israel and then the gentiles to pay attention, God is laying down the written Word through them.
First, I did think that you didn't believe in miracles but now I see I was wrong. I agree with your statements in regard to Moses. However, I disagree with your statements about the Apostles. There purpose was to spread the Good News, God did not lay down written word through them. The Law was already written, it just need to be spread.
These people going around claiming to be in the office of Apostle are charlatans. Anyone who claims to be a living Apostle is either deceived or deceiving. The signs of an Apostle are signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. If you find somebody doing those things you let me know.
Revelation 2:2 KJV
[2] I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
We are not supposed to just take someone’s word that they are an Apostle.
I agree with you 100%. However, I do believe that God can use a man today to send a message to anyone He chooses.
