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Dating a Married Man

rockfox said:
No, they are just women. Biologically and morally, a woman chasing a married man is just going after a proven quantity. The real trick of the devil here is to get her to harden her heart because she mistakenly thinks what she's doing is wrong; even though she's just operating according to her God given programming.

Now if after said woman finds out its moral to become his second wife and she still aims to be a homewrecker; then you're dealing with a different quantity. But they're still not really that different than the 99% of all other married women who want their man all to themselves; even though they were seemingly moral by marrying a single man.

But this is why efforts like this can be important, even if they seem like shots in the dark. If we can plant seeds that point to the truth for people honestly trying to come to grips with the internal struggles, we can have huge affects in peoples lives.
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Joleneakamama:
Reading that linked page just confirms for me that a major obstacle facing would be polygynous men, is that most of the women who would have interest in a married man lack morals, and most of the modern women with morals will feel the married man interested in them has none.

Attempting to combine a response relating to both of your comments. I'd be interested in feedback on this because this embodies one of the biggest questions which has formed in my mind over the past few weeks. VV76 and Wellbelovedwife and I have discussed this very topic. In our society today and culture, it is absolutely considered immoral, taboo, unconscienable that a lady would even consider pursuing a relationship with a man she KNOWS is already married.

If the single man is seeking a wife, or if the man is married and seeking another wife as in BF it seems that is viewed as his God-given place and right. But for single women, widows, or divorced ladies to consider taking that sort of action--it's been inbred in us that we can't! We've been told all our lives the male must seek us out, pursue, initiate the contact, etc. Yet, as I've read some comments on this forum I'm led to believe women actually approach men?!?

I hope someone will respond and provide some clarity on this. I can't make any sense out of it--the right or the wrong OR is there a right or wrong? :(
 
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rejoicinghandmaid said:

Joleneakamama:
Reading that linked page just confirms for me that a major obstacle facing would be polygynous men, is that most of the women who would have interest in a married man lack morals, and most of the modern women with morals will feel the married man interested in them has none.

Attempting to combine a response relating to both of your comments. I'd be interested in feedback on this because this embodies one of the biggest questions which has formed in my mind over the past few weeks. VV76 and Wellbelovedwife and I have discussed this very topic. In our society today and culture, it is absolutely considered immoral, taboo, unconscienable that a lady would even consider pursuing a relationship with a man she KNOWS is already married.

If the single man is seeking a wife, or if the man is married and seeking another wife as in BF it seems that is viewed as his God-given place and right. But for single women, widows, or divorced ladies to consider taking that sort of action--it's been inbred in us that we can't! We've been told all our lives the male must seek us out, pursue, initiate the contact, etc. Yet, as I've read some comments on this forum I'm led to believe women actually approach men?!?

I hope someone will respond and provide some clarity on this. I can't make any sense out of it--the right or the wrong OR is there a right or wrong? :(
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Seems like there is biblical precedent for a good woman to approach a good man... :cool:
 
rejoicinghandmaid said:
Was she talking of herself or was she prophesying Sisera's death at the hand of a woman--Jael.
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I have always read this as simply meaning that God had told her that a woman would kill Sisera. She didn't necessarily have any idea who that could be - whether herself or Jael or anyone else. I expect God simply told her that Sisera would be killed by a woman, and she passed on the message. It was something that occurred sometimes - take Judges 9:53 and 2 Samuel 11:21 for another example of a man killed by a woman in war. There are so many ways it could happen I expect Deborah had no preconceived ideas about it at all, she just knew the message was true.
 
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rejoicinghandmaid said:

Joleneakamama:
Reading that linked page just confirms for me that a major obstacle facing would be polygynous men, is that most of the women who would have interest in a married man lack morals, and most of the modern women with morals will feel the married man interested in them has none.

Attempting to combine a response relating to both of your comments. I'd be interested in feedback on this because this embodies one of the biggest questions which has formed in my mind over the past few weeks. VV76 and Wellbelovedwife and I have discussed this very topic. In our society today and culture, it is absolutely considered immoral, taboo, unconscienable that a lady would even consider pursuing a relationship with a man she KNOWS is already married.

If the single man is seeking a wife, or if the man is married and seeking another wife as in BF it seems that is viewed as his God-given place and right. But for single women, widows, or divorced ladies to consider taking that sort of action--it's been inbred in us that we can't! We've been told all our lives the male must seek us out, pursue, initiate the contact, etc. Yet, as I've read some comments on this forum I'm led to believe women actually approach men?!?

I hope someone will respond and provide some clarity on this. I can't make any sense out of it--the right or the wrong OR is there a right or wrong? :(
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman approaching a married man to suggest / request marriage. Ruth is probably a good example of this - we don't know if Boaz was married, but for someone in his position it would be very surprising if he were not.

I would go so far as to say that this is what a woman SHOULD do - find the man who'd make the best husband for you and approach him, regardless of how many wives he's already got.

The problem is that all women in our society have been taught that they are not allowed to approach a married man. The "good" women will generally follow this rule carefully. The women who are happy to ignore this rule are also generally those who ignore plenty of other social rules and are as a result not the sort of women you'd actually be interested in marrying. The difficulty is finding a good woman who knows that this one point of "morality" is wrong but all the other stuff is still actually correct...

So:
  • If she approaches you, there's a good chance she's unsuitable.
  • If she is suitable and you approach her, there's a good chance she'll never speak to you again and when the story spreads you'll be run out of church and every other social structure you're involved in.
To slightly misapply a quote, as it is an interesting parallel: It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a good woman to come to a married man. But with God, all things are possible.
 
rejoicinghandmaid said:
Lesson 3. Barak, Israel's commander, was afraid to go without Deborah, so she marched with him into battle. However, the honor of conquering Sisera went to a woman because Barak was not courageous enough to lead. (Judges 4:4-14) It's possible that only those courageous enough to lead will be rewarded with polygyny.


Good observations! As I've read the story over several times down through the years I've always pondered Deborah's quote in Judges 4:9c "...for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman, ..." Was she talking of herself or was she prophesying Sisera's death at the hand of a woman--Jael. I feel certain she rode into battle with Barak fully confident that the Lord GOD would deliver King Jabin and his captain Sisera into their hands. She could not have known about Jael unless the Lord had told her.

Not trying to derail the thread since this comment is off topic. Any comments or thoughts along these lines?
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I don't necessarily get out of the story that Barak was 'afraid'. I get more out of it that he wanted verification that God was truly speaking to Deborah about what she was suggesting he do. Meaning he had lack of faith to hear God himself directly. And as a result of his lack of faith the victory would go to a woman. And in this case two women.

As far as being 'courageous to lead' it appears he still lead the army and won but the credit is given to someone else. The whole point of the story to me is that it's amazing what we can do if we will only hear God ourselves.
 
This has turned into a great thread!

To the comments on Sisera's wife and ladies in waiting expecting girls as war booty, I was reading Numbers 31 this morning and noting that the 12,000 man army of Israel that destroyed the Midianites received 16,000 virgin girls as booty.....
 
I am thinking that a way around having a potential-wife run off at the idea of dating a married man, is to in a social setting where the husband is with his wife, *they* befriend her, and over the course of a number of meetings, they show her that they're kind, sane, and Godly. If it can be arranged for her to meet the children and see them interact with them, and that they're well behaved and well adjusted; so much the better. At some point, the *wife* could drop some poly-positive related hint, either in a bible discussion or pop culture reference via Sister Wives or the like. The point of the wife doing it is to eliminate any idea that the husband is some sort of sex maniac, or going behind his wife's back, or he is the one pushing for it. It also serves to draw the woman into the idea via herd mentality seeing a peer (the wife) interested. She could drop a hint like this; in a dreamy sort of way, comment how that it sounds so nice to have a close friend like that right there in the house.

Be very careful with the hint that is dropped so that if she is utterly repulsed by the idea, you've not revealed too much and then she report you for committing a thought-crime. If she seems not repulsed, but casually supposes it wrong (...but isn't polygamy wrong?), you can matter-of-factly/casually comment how heroes of faith did it, the witness God bore of Abimelech in Gen 20, and the witness God bore of the law-abidingness of Abraham the polygynist in Gen 26:5, and that polygynists go to heaven (Luk 13:28), and that nowhere is poly spoken against, and how it was an important social construct to see that women were cared for. Note how that even today in Ukraine, the women outnumber men roughly 5:4, so 20% of the women have not a warm body to marry, let alone one who can be a good husband. Other hints that could be dropped to explore her psyche are things related to patriarchy, submission, and anti-feminism. It seems good to proceed in such a away as to not make an enemy if it turns out that she seems not compatible.

Concerning bible discussion and submission, I am a big fan of the idea of the husband leading bible studies with the family in the home on Shabbat. With that in mind, he might casually start a bible discussion which was pre-thought-out to lead over top of some poly in the bible. Then, the wife make a pre-thought-out poly-positive remark. As for the aforementioned submission, the frame here is the husband leading the family, and the women following along; even the potential sister wife. I believe that God ordered things this way, and for women to be content and thrive in such a environment, and so presenting the God-ordained situation to her, her innate nature might kick in and cause her to be more amenable to the process. I like the idea of "Begin as you mean to go on"; so as much as is socially acceptable, treat her as a wife/sisterwife right from the start, and see if she settles into that role.

Having the wife along and this showing that another woman is interested in him, and this giving him preselection points (proven quality) with a potential wife, is a very interesting thing. Yeshua commented "everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance" (Mat 25:29). Early on I couldn't make sense of that, but now I see it as a comment on how the world works. We see it with women being attracted to a preselected man. So in that way, attracting a second wife can be easier than attracting a first wife. I see it in my own life, it's the snowball effect. As I gather more resources, I can do more things, more effectively, and faster; and this allows me to gather even more resources, and the process accelerates.

Now for the sobriety..
I think a significant component here is charisma and leadership from the husband. Women tend to be very leadable, and are sadly oft led into all kinds of troublesome things by charismatic men doing things they ought not. I think that strong leadership on the husband's part can lead her in the way of Godliness and away from worldly filth (monogamy only). Though, I see a power struggle, an authority contest; who ultimately holds more sway over her? Can she stay stepped out of the world when and if her friends and family pressure and forsake her? If not, trying to build a poly relationship with her seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Even if he holds more sway over her than those pressuring her in the world, it is still likely to be a source of stress for her, and thus the family. It might eventually wear her down, and then disaster. So unless she can disregard their pressurings, or they support her; it seems very risky to pursue a poly relationship with her.
 
eye4them said:
I am thinking that a way around having a potential-wife run off at the idea of dating a married man, is to in a social setting where the husband is with his wife, *they* befriend her, and over the course of a number of meetings, they show her that they're kind, sane, and Godly. ...
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These all sound like great suggestions, but I would suggest the man win her over first, without saying a word. Women are good at reading body language, so husbands, break every rule you see from Focus on the Family, when it comes to married men relating to single women. Look the young lady in the eyes and catch her gaze. Act nervous when you get around her. Stumble over your words when you talk to her. She'll get the idea, and have all these mixed feelings of guilt and desire at the same time.
 
Joleneakamama said:
It really is crazy how little is understood by people and ministers (so called) in this modern world.
For example, even the title on the link "Dating a married man." Dating is not a biblical concept, especially since now days that for many includes sexual relations, which in biblical times meant either marriage, or treating a woman like a whore.
I doubt the people (assumed to be christians) reading that topic are clarifying anything, even in their own minds, like what the married man's intentions are toward the woman he is dating.....marriage or a fling.....and that to my understanding is a major consideration. Then too, it is assumed the woman is available.

Reading that linked page just confirms for me that a major obstacle facing would be polygynous men, is that most of the women who would have interest in a married man lack morals, and most of the modern women with morals will feel the married man interested in them has none.
A Biblical Families tee shirt for men that says "married, moral AND available" might be a conversation starter. (Ladies shirt has "my hubby is" at the top) :)Lol.

But really, I suspect God is just equipping some men/families (mentally, emotionally spiritually) for the time prophesied in Isaiah when "7 women take hold of one man." I think that could possibly be fulfilled in my lifetime, after gog/magog leaves the people in the USA (and the rest of the world) with a radically different outlook on everything.

Just my musings.
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I have actually gone to some of these YouTube videos about dating married men and made some comments, just to give people a perspective that they would not otherwise see.


 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Act nervous when you get around her. Stumble over your words when you talk to her.
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You got the body language part right; sub-communication more than literal. But this quoted part is how women act around men they're attracted to. Men should rather be bold and confident in action.
 
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rockfox said:
You got the body language part right; sub-communication more than literal. But this quoted part is how women act around men they're attracted to. Men should rather be bold and confident in action.
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Totally get what you're saying, but if he's too calm, cool, and collected, does he risk seeming like he does this a lot? Would it cause her to feel less special? I don't have an answer. I'm just speculating.
 
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