When someone asks whether the Bible says "this or that", I find that the answer is usually "neither or both". In this case, both. Being yoked is like being one, the concept of the two becoming one. When you put a yoke on two oxen, they become like one unit driven together by the driver. We can't serve different masters or go two different ways when we are yoked. Doesn't work, you get no where, that would be an unfruitful union/marriage. That said, a marriage that began unfruitful, with both being unbelievers, can become fruitful, where both parties become believers, like Corinthians says...
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Churchianity Lacks PRACTICAL Answers For Single Women!
- Thread starter Frank S
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When someone asks whether the Bible says "this or that", I find that the answer is usually "neither or both". In this case, both. Being yoked is like being one, the concept of the two becoming one. When you put a yoke on two oxen, they become like one unit driven together by the driver. We can't serve different masters or go two different ways when we are yoked. Doesn't work, you get no where, that would be an unfruitful union/marriage. That said, a marriage that began unfruitful, with both being unbelievers, can become fruitful, where both parties become believers, like Corinthians says...
Hmmm, maybe you can point out what part of what I said sounds like fatalistic and unhelpful advice for singles, in the entire context of everything I said? I certainly wouldn't want to give singles advice that's fatalistic or unhelpful. I believe finding a spouse takes effort from all parties - Yah, the man, the woman, and any family members, match makers, or third parties. Let me clarify, before I was considered marriage material by my husband, I had to give up on boys who wouldn't commit and all that goes with that, and chase after Yah. For me to consider my husband marriage material, he had to give up on chasing after girls with no intention to commit, and instead chase after Yah. Yah was waiting for both of us to chase after Him, instead of the unfaithful, before helping us find our faithful spouse. While we didn't live under the roof of parents who gave sound guidance, we were on our own as grown adults in the military, lost in the world, we found our way to the Bible and to Yah and we did ask for approval from Christians we knew from our church we were attending. Sadly, I think they would have okayed us marrying a mass murderer, so that's not what really convinced us to marry, it was the fact that we saw we were an equal yoke. My husband asked a pastor who was visiting from Africa how he knew his wife was the one. The pastor's name was Joseph. Joseph explained that in Africa, there was no "cold feet", no dating, or courting. A man and/or his family simply becomes friends with the woman and her family, and the man and/or his father asks her father if he can marry her if he thinks she would be a good wife, and they become married. This made sense to my husband, only our families weren't traditional, no biological father present, families scattered in different states in another country, unbelievers, and in sin and adultery. Can you give better guidance to the modern single woman or man in our situation, other than seeking an equal yoke in Yah's will? Now, a virgin Christian woman and man living under the roof of a Christian father, they are going to be seeking guidance from the Bible and their earthly father. Absolutely a good father should help his son find a good wife, as we will help our son find a good wife. Sadly though, some of these singles will be pressured by their fathers to sin for a while and marry later. I think it's better guidance to tell them to marry now and avoid sin and confusion and the consequences that go along with that. No? How is what I'm saying fatalistic and unhelpful?
If you couldn't tell by my citing scripture against myself on it, I'm conflicted. But I understand where they're coming from.
This part, "Yah was the One who decided when we were ready, and who we should marry." sounds a lot like the advice they commonly get to wait on God or pray to God for a spouse or God will provide in His time and the like. Which doesn't help if the problem is you need to clean up your life or need to put effort into finding a man/woman.
I see in the greater context of your story how that's not the case. But on it's own it sounds like the advice always given.
Maybe the more important question is: how did you know in that moment of your life that what you needed to do was chase Yah and not the unfaithful and that if you did so Yah would bring you a faithful spouse?
When I was single, I already thought that finding a girl to marry was going to be an impossible task. The way I did it is the way I always advise. I used Matt 6:30-33 and 1 Corinthians 7:27 as my guide posts, and focused on serving God the best way that I could and let Him find me someone to marry. I later came to find that He had begun to provide me His answer from the same time that I had purposed in my heart to approach it this way, though it would be a few years between that and the day I actually found her.
My point is that God knows that most of his sons need a woman. And if we prioritize HIS Kingdom and HIS Righteousness, He will supply us all our need. That's a promise. And I agree (though maybe not the same way) that the emphasis is on the man doing something. But I would put forward that what the man needs to do is make sure that his goals are to further the kingdom of Heaven and to grow in righteousness. Along the path he'll have to step up and ask a girl/her father about something at some point, but even then unless the Lord builds the house: He labors in vain who impresses a girl's father.
From a purely practical standpoint: You know, even completely leaving out the power of God's intervention and planning, If I see a young man chasing hard after God, I'm more inclined to be the kind of man that @James A is looking for. You know, the kind that approaches him and says "Hey bud, have you considered my daughter? She's precious to me but I think I'd like her to be under your care". But the more I see a young man struggling trying to get the attention of females or currying favor with the fathers of available women, the more apt I am to hide my own daughter from him. Not that I don't understand where they're at and I can sympathize with them, but like my good buddy Laban: My chief interest is for my daughter's well being. I want a son in law that I can believe in. Of course my daughter is pretty and gets attention. Damn right. She gets it from me. But who are you that I should give my daughter away? And I don't think my mindset is all that rare.
We should teach our boys to be face-of-God-seeking men, and hold our daughters in reserve for the same; and past that I don't know how much more of a real contribution we can make to the equation.
What else do you think we should do?
The problem with that is that a post saying "How to approach women on this site" can be easily read as meaning "The women on this site are here because they want you to approach them", by someone who is hoping it means that...
However, I have already gone partway there in the "Forum Rules" thread. There I defined a number of things that were out of line (e.g. personally contacting every new single woman who signs up, other than commenting on their introduction thread, approaching married women romantically etc). And I specified penalties for such actions, which the moderators are able to instantly apply (the mods can instantly restrict or remove anybody's access to private conversations & chat, forcing interactions onto the public forum where others can keep an eye on them, whenever there are serious suspicions of inappropriate behavior).
I personally think it's good to define what's not accepted, to provide clear boundaries. But I wouldn't want to post a "how to" guide, because that has the potential to encourage too many people to approach single ladies, and scare them away as a result. I think this is a reasonable balance, but I'm open to any suggestions on how it might need to be tweaked.
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On the other hand, I was actually looking very hard for a wife, and actually had my eyes looking quite firmly at one or possibly two other women - when Sarah turned up and we were just together. So God provided, but wasn't helped at all by the fact that I was looking, He actually provided despite my strong efforts at looking in the other direction.
So the advice that we should pray and wait for God is correct - provided we have our eyes open to see what He might be providing.
I strongly suspect that for many young women who are praying in such a manner, God does have a man lined up for them, but they're not willing to see him because he's already married and so dismiss God's promptings as evil lust that they have to run from, and bury themselves in more prayer in response. God will provide - but we must be willing to look where He points.
By 'equally yoked,' I assume you mean that they have the same belief system in Yah and basic faith practices? Or, are you talking about more of an equality of labor, decision, etc? Just trying to clarify.
The way I knew in that moment that what I needed to do was chase Yah and not the unfaithful was that I wound up pregnant and abandoned by a guy who didn't want to commit to me or my son on the way. Just as I was abandoned in the womb, now my son would be abandoned in the womb. I had enough of myself at that point, of questioning the equal yoke "theory" I read in the Bible. I realized I thought I knew better than my Maker, until the consequences came home to roost.
I heard a woman calling into the Dave Ramsey show the other day. She was shacking up with a guy and asked if she should help him pay off his mortgage that her boyfriend was almost done with. She said she figured it would be good for their relationship, like if she acted like his helper, he'd marry her. She was hoping for marriage. She doesn't realize it, but she basically was acting like a prostitute who pays her customer hoping he will marry her, probably thinking she can change him for the better, which was what I thought, being naive, gullible, and ignorant. Dave Ramsey told her not to pay off her roommate's mortgage until he made an honest woman out of her and married her. She had a hard time accepting that advice, I don't think she did, but it was the right advice, and you know he'll dump her as soon as she pays off his debts. This is a hard pill to swallow, but it's true that a man won't buy the cow when he can have the milk for free. It's desperation. She doesn't know her worth is more than rubies, so she gives it away for free. It's sad. I was there.
I'm not going to apologize for giving advice that people don't want to hear. I was there, I was single, and I've not forgotten what it's like. When I looked for a spouse, I found the unfaithful, when I looked for Yah, I found Him, and He sent the spouse to me, so I just stumbled upon him on his way to church with Bible in hand. It wasn't until I prayed, "not my will, but Yours be done", that my husband came into my life. I became his friend, not his lover, not his girlfriend, and Yah caused us a few months later to say, "huh, maybe we're meant to be, let's pray about it..." I was pregnant when I found my husband. I wasn't out trying to be wife material, look good, or smell good. I was embarrassed and humiliated, utterly humbled and broken. I wasn't looking for husband material. I was just trying to be pure for once in my life and trying to figure out what it meant to walk like a Christian instead of just talking the talk. I was getting my life cleaned up, like you said, and I met a guy who was trying to do the same. He understood what it meant to make a mistake or a hundred, and trying to make it right with Yah. So that's what I mean by Yah decides who we should marry and when. Those guys didn't want to marry me because I was a believer and wanted marriage. They were unbelievers and were not interested in marrying a believer who wanted to convert them. That is why I say the key is the equal yoke. If a single believer looks for a single believer, or doesn't look at all, but prays and asks, they will find, like Matt 7 that you mentioned says. It's when we doubt Yah's guidance and command about being unequally yoked that we get frustrated and wind up single and lonely, and WHINY.
Thanks for those verses Slumberfreeze, got me thinking about this in a different context. But they lead me to the opposite conclusion as you.
And yet...
This get's into a dilemma that is much greater than finding a wife. It comes into to play when trying to figure out God's will for you, or in even day to day food/clothing/drink. The only way I've been able to rectify those two verses is that yes we should work, the answer isn't to be passive, but what we shouldn't do is worry. It says "take no thought", not "avoid all work".
Finds implies a search; the Hebrew there means "finds a thing sought"; doesn't confer the idea of something stumbled upon.
So the application to this situation is one shouldn't worry, be fearful or rely solely upon their own effort to find a spouse. But neither should they passively wait for him or her to be dropped on your doorstep while focusing only on other things (work, education, church, etc). Search for a spouse, but do so while praying to God always and trusting in His provision.
I see young people chasing hard after God instead of after a spouse; I also see them age out of being able to have children.
Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seekfor your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
And yet...
This get's into a dilemma that is much greater than finding a wife. It comes into to play when trying to figure out God's will for you, or in even day to day food/clothing/drink. The only way I've been able to rectify those two verses is that yes we should work, the answer isn't to be passive, but what we shouldn't do is worry. It says "take no thought", not "avoid all work".
Finds implies a search; the Hebrew there means "finds a thing sought"; doesn't confer the idea of something stumbled upon.
So the application to this situation is one shouldn't worry, be fearful or rely solely upon their own effort to find a spouse. But neither should they passively wait for him or her to be dropped on your doorstep while focusing only on other things (work, education, church, etc). Search for a spouse, but do so while praying to God always and trusting in His provision.
I see young people chasing hard after God instead of after a spouse; I also see them age out of being able to have children.
Repentance is a powerful thing.
Far be it from me to ask you to, heaven knows I do it enough. I'm just trying to dial down to what is good and practical advice and I really appreciate your input. This seeming dichotomy between human effort and trusting in God is something that's perplexed me. Testimonies like yours and Slumberfreeze's are very compelling. And yet there is also my last post. So, I don't know.
Grammatically true example. But what makes you think that is the case in Prov 18:22?
We may be honing in on agreeing about this... First off thank you for the refined definition of the Hebrew for 'find'. I'm trash at hebrew so I wouldn't have found that on my own.
Secondly, it has to be said that though I didn't pursue girls... like at all.... I was definitely looking for one. I was Lonelyfreeze back then so I pretty much evaluated for suitability every girl I met, but I was also Pickyfreeze so I also dismissed every girl I met. I don't think that is a passive behavior any more than being a watchman is passive. It's vigilant, tiresome and frustrating work. It's also resigned work because you just have to accept that most days there's nothing to see.
It might be like waiting on the Lord. There's nothing that says you shouldn't be about some business while you wait, but no matter what you're doing you know all you're really doing is waiting for the Lord to answer.
Well I did look it up, but I won't guarantee I interpreted it right
I'm no Hebrew grammarian. Sounds familiar.
I can certainly relate to this!
I think most who read the Bible misinterpret equally yoked to be speaking of class, education level, income, physical appearance, etc... but that's not what the Bible is talking about. I can see this is what they think because I hear more people advising their kids in this way instead of telling them to look for someone who is a believer in Messiah, who keeps the Sabbath, who hates idolatry, who understands covenant and faithfulness, etc... So yeah, equal yoke is about faith and works, not the same career field or major in college. If we don't start with an equal yoke, the end result is almost always divorce, and when it's not, it's a miserable marriage, until, Yah willing, they both get on the same page on faith. There is a reason lack of shared faith is one of the top reasons for divorce. My husband and I are teaching our kids, if a person don't believe in Yahusha, they are off limits as a spouse. 2 Corinthians six (six keys not working) verses 13-15. Many claim to be believers in Christ, but are not, so we judge by the fruit, whether they obey His commandments. John 14:15, 21-24, John 15:10-12, Matthew 7:15-23, John 8:31-32
We don't expect their future spouses to be perfect, especially before marriage, so we start with Acts 15:19-21. We believe, and the disciples believed, this is a reasonable expectation, that even new believers in Christ, repenting from the pagan ways of the gentiles, should be expected to refrain from sexual immorality, idolatry, blood, and things strangled, and willing to come on the Sabbath to hear more from Moses about holiness. Why did they choose these things as signs of a circumcised heart? Because people who have idols before Yah aren't faithful. (Idols mean different things to different people depending on their convictions. (For some people praying to a statue of Mary or the cross is idolatry. For some it's having a doll or stuffed animal or animal trophy on the wall, for others it may be the celebration of Christmas and Easter, mixing the holy with the profane, sex and child sacrifice, or all of these things.) If they aren't faithful to Yah, they won't be faithful to a spouse. If they have idols, they will lust after other lovers in addition to their earthly spouse. The other things have to do with controlling the flesh, as well. Will you eat blood pudding or blood sausage, when your body is a temple of Yah? Sounds gross to some of us, but some people crave it. Will you eat a snared rabbit because it's cheap meat and you THINK you have nothing else to eat? Do you CARE about what Moses has to say about what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies? Yes, this all has to do with holiness, marriage, covenant, and faithfulness. Our bodies are not our own, they also belong to our spouse, and our Maker, and just as our spouse cares about what we do to our bodies, our Maker does, too. I care if my hubby gets a tattoo, does drugs, sleeps around with loose women, or eats the blood of pigs. Yep, sure do, it's all gross, and all of it can effect me. It's called sin which leads to disease and curses, even infertility. These sins spread disease to the rest of the body, meaning other believers. If you steal, it may not effect me, I can't get a disease because you did something you will have to pay a consequence for, but if you sleep around, and bring your disease home or to church now we have sin that effects everyone else, and it's unholy before Yah. Marriage is supposed to be a holy union, the marriage bed is holy, and that's why those are the sins we don't overlook in choosing a spouse or judging the fruit of those who call themselves believers. We believe in grace, but before forgiveness comes confession and repentance. Repentance is changing bad fruit (deeds) to good ones. We all have sin, but we all have to start somewhere, and there are very good reasons why the disciples, not me, chose these sins as the ones to start with in new believers in Acts 15:19-21, and they said it because Moses said it in Leviticus, the heart of the Law. Those who start here have a circumcised heart. This is the equal yoke we look for.
I think that the sleepycold guy explained it pretty well. We do our due diligence, but that is no guarantee that the yield will be because of our efforts.
One proverb cannot define the method, Boaz being a prime example. Adam found one when he woke up from that weird nap, and his kids may not have needed to search all that hard.
Rockfox - It depends on what type of girl you are going for. If you want a Biblical wife from a Biblical family, they will be wondering why it took you so long to ask and they're wondering where all the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacobs are. If our daughter was of age, and a suitor showed up like that, asking if we thought he was an equal yoke for our daughter and if she might be willing to marry him, wow, I'd be hoping and praying he shares our faith, just because the approach is so right on! If he doesn't share our faith though, we'd be sending those camels back with all their silver and gold still on them. We want him to value her worth, yes, to respect us and understand all that we put into raising her right, but more importantly, he must respect Yah and His Word, and the evidence of his faith can be seen in his works. We know how to spot lip service, so we'd have to spend some time making sure the walk matches the talk, but it doesn't take much time to make that judgement if you know how to judge fruit.
If you're looking for a worldly girl in a worldly family, then yeah, they're going to look at you like you're weird and gross if you send servants with silver and gold. Determine your goal, then figure out the best method to get there. Worldly goals require worldly ways. That's the broad road, right? Where does that lead? I don't think you want that one.
If you're looking for a worldly girl in a worldly family, then yeah, they're going to look at you like you're weird and gross if you send servants with silver and gold. Determine your goal, then figure out the best method to get there. Worldly goals require worldly ways. That's the broad road, right? Where does that lead? I don't think you want that one.
So just a side note that circles back a bit to @FollowingHim golden post and also what others have mentioned about 3rd parties.
In situations where a single lady here on BF doesn't have a father to approach a family or a single man on her behalf I was thinking that maybe the BF staff could be an intermediate party. So she can PM a staff member and the staff member can reach out to the lucky man or family on her behalf. Possibly without mentioning her name at first if she so desires.
This is still a concept in flux.
In situations where a single lady here on BF doesn't have a father to approach a family or a single man on her behalf I was thinking that maybe the BF staff could be an intermediate party. So she can PM a staff member and the staff member can reach out to the lucky man or family on her behalf. Possibly without mentioning her name at first if she so desires.
This is still a concept in flux.