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James A
Guest
I view anything that has a intimate intent as wrong/unpure action before marraige
Seriously, only an arranged marriage where they never see each other prior to the ceremony can pass that test.
Even holding hands is a raised level of intimacy.
As I read thru these posts and considered the original post, there seems to be a consensus about the decline in morals. The decline in morals in America and beyond is a given. You won’t find much of an argument on that point.
In the original post, the use of ‘decline in morals’ seems to have been used as a way of a hook to start people agreeing with you. Kind of like our politicians will do when they open their mouths. Then they hit you with alternatives you don’t want or disagree with.
As to the main point that began this thread, unpure and kissing, if there are 100 people reading this thread, there will be 200 opinions.
There is a tenderness that can be presented with a kiss. A gentle kiss can create a spark that can grow into a fire. Frankly, if there is no spark, you’d have nothing more than a roommate. I personally would want to know, the marriage will turn into that passionate fire, not just a roommate.
I am well aware that my opinion will require discipline on both parts, and I can testify, it can be done. But there was no doubt, the passion for intimacy was there. And the marriage has been good.
Yep, a tender kiss can be better than ten thousand words.
Man I hear you, and I somewhat agree. But supposing you do find a virgin girl that thinks you're great and follows you around with puppy dog eyes...
If you're red blooded enough to want 3 wives, you're going to do something with intimate intent with her sometime before the wedding:
There’s kissing, and then there is Kissing.
Just saying
Even a peck on the cheek differs from a peck on the lips. And they are only inches apart.
Depends on the execution of the peck... hehehehe My hubby has given me some very nice pecks on the cheek.
Its a good thought, but how realistic are you being?
While marrying virgins might be your intent I'm sure Hosea never thought he'd be instructed by God to marry a prostitute but he was.
I strongly believe that waiting until after marriage to be intimate with a person is a good thing.
But at the same same time I don't necessarily believe that a man who sleeps with a virgin before he marries her is unmoral (just unwise)
16And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
Why should we pretend or claim a higher morality then God?
I do believe that the morality of the younger generation is headed and has been heading downhill for a while, but not because they hold hands or kiss.
Have you ever heard that saying "if you want to make God laugh tell him your future plans"?
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James A
Guest
I would rather set my goals high than low which has resulted in the moral decline. I believe God is happy with my goals
Since I can be pretty sure that you do not have access to a trillion dollars, your statement is just silly.
It surprises me that such a serious person as yourself would make a statement that makes no sense.
Ok, you dream of virgins, I get it. But is that what you have come to see that Yah has for you from your study of Scripture?
@James A, you've got a wonderful fantasy in your mind of great wealth and three virgins. No doubt all younger than you. And it's just that - a fantasy. Forget it.
God has a plan for your life. It might involve marrying a virgin, or more than one. It might involve marrying a non-virgin due to one foolish mistake in the distant past. Or it might involve marrying an ex-prostitute. It might involve marrying a woman 20 years younger than you - or 20 years older. Or it might involve being celibate for your entire life. It might even involve dying tomorrow, so all this is irrelevant. You have to have your eyes open to what GOD has planned for your life, and not presume the ability to plan this for yourself.
God has a plan for your life. It might involve marrying a virgin, or more than one. It might involve marrying a non-virgin due to one foolish mistake in the distant past. Or it might involve marrying an ex-prostitute. It might involve marrying a woman 20 years younger than you - or 20 years older. Or it might involve being celibate for your entire life. It might even involve dying tomorrow, so all this is irrelevant. You have to have your eyes open to what GOD has planned for your life, and not presume the ability to plan this for yourself.
This kind of bothered me. In my case, I wasn't always a Christian. I wasn't always convicted to save myself. At some point, I made the decision, and had a conversation with God that the next man I was with was going to be my husband. And it was. But that doesn't take away what had happened in my past. Maybe consider the situation before you write someone off entirely.
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James A
Guest
I rebuke the statement about dying. Lets not plant a thought where one is not needed.
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James A
Guest
everyone has things they want in a signifiant other. That does not take away from the fact Gods plan will happen no matter what I think. BUT if I feel God leading me a direction I wont ignore him
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James A
Guest
Are you telling me I should ignore my convictions
Amen, @Lanora115. As @FollowingHim also pointed out, echoing this aspect of your thoughts, we can't predict what God has planned for us.
And, as for prostitutes, I sure am glad my step-grandfather was willing to marry my mother's mother (formerly his prostitute); the stability that lent to my mother's childhood was priceless. It's not much of a stretch to say that his presence saved her life.
People head down wrong paths. To rule them out for association of whatever kind is to fail to perceive the value of redemption.
I know I've sure needed a lot of slack myself.
NO ONE is telling you that you should ignore your convictions, James, but the message that has been imparted to you from quite a few people and that you consistently sidestep is that even more important than having convictions is to refrain from elevating them to a level of importance higher than God's own convictions for you.
As a rule of thumb, one of the best ways to determine what God's convictions for you are is to look at what is actually already doing on with your life, as well as any direction in which you are clearly headed in a tangible way (things happening, as opposed to wishes and hopes) -- and that will tell you where God wants you and where He wants to take you. Until that day that none but He can predict when life on Earth for you is over.
@James, did you really experience @FollowingHim's assertion that even death may be one of God's potential plans for you as some kind of curse? I ask because to say you rebuke (to criticize or sharply reprimand) his statement and react as if his having mentioned that possibility or your having heard that something so inevitable to all of us as death somehow has the power to hasten its onset. Only our Father knows the moments of our individual deaths. We have no power to create your death with our words.
What I wonder is where you've learned so many ways in which to fear that failing to achieve various levels of perfection will lead to abysmal failure in the eyes of our LORD.
If they are not Yah’s plans for your life, of course you should ignore them.
Ones convictions are very important, but they’d best not replace the Almighty.
You explain it so much better than I.
About your convictions, or perhaps rather your conscience, you certainly should not go against it.
"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." (Jam 4:17)
But at the same time, you need to consider if you conscience is leading you aright, or if your conscience is defiled.
"but even their mind and conscience is defiled." (Tit 1:15)
...as compared to...
"Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience." (1Ti 3:9)
Just because your conscience tells you something, doesn't mean it's right. Or, just because you feel God is leading you, doesn't mean that it's His leading you're feeling. There was a time that my conscience told me that polygyny was wrong, and obviously it was wrong. There are many such people who so labor under false convictions of a wrong conscience.
Notwithstanding, there are a multitude of practical reasons to exercise extreme caution with any woman who is not a virgin*. I support and commend your preference in this matter.
* This is with respect to developing an intimate relationship, as opposed to a cordial/business relationship in which virginity is irrelevant.