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Wow
- Thread starter NickF
- Start date
Lol that's my thinking of course. Ugh I'm ashamed to admit the amount of money I've spent on my 16 year old doggy this year, he's had a rough year. I'd have been better off adopting a child I think lol
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Children are not as expensive as they are made out to be. Especially once you have 1, then you can just hand down to the others. We bought most of our stuff second hand, or were given it. They put this number out, and I can't even remember what it was, but something ridiculous, that children will cost you until they leave home, and it terrifies people. But it's not true.
Also, if you want to do career first, then have kids, well that's your choice, but there's a good chance that doing that means you're not going to be able to have children in the future at all. You can't always just put that off. Women are most fertile between the ages of 18-24, and from there their fertility starts to decline. When you add hormonal contraception onto that then it really stuffs that system up. Then you get women in their mid-late 30's wanting to start having kids and finding they can't. Then getting to 40 and being 'too old' to start IVF without a tonne of risks.
Children do not ruin your life and stop you from being able to have a career or being able to study or work. I know many women that have done that. That's a myth that's thrown around to help push the idea of abortion.
Ok, rant over
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Also, if you want to do career first, then have kids, well that's your choice, but there's a good chance that doing that means you're not going to be able to have children in the future at all. You can't always just put that off. Women are most fertile between the ages of 18-24, and from there their fertility starts to decline. When you add hormonal contraception onto that then it really stuffs that system up. Then you get women in their mid-late 30's wanting to start having kids and finding they can't. Then getting to 40 and being 'too old' to start IVF without a tonne of risks.
Children do not ruin your life and stop you from being able to have a career or being able to study or work. I know many women that have done that. That's a myth that's thrown around to help push the idea of abortion.
Ok, rant over
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I have never had to work outside the home.
My hubby's dad raised his THIRD family of 14 kids on very little money. That was after he retired on the property he owned and had paid off. Hubby remembers many meals where their dad would say "Everything we are eating tonight came off the place." THAT is how moms at home can best contribute to the household. Take those babies to the garden and let those children help process and put away food.
Pursuing a more Biblical perspective comprehensively would include:
- Men marrying a bit later once finacially established
- Women marrying young
- Lower standard of living, at least initially. I.e., avoid the cr@p debt inducers the world tells us we 'need.'
- Husband guiding/creating income from home opportunities for his woman/women
- Polygyny for multiple benefits (lower resourse expenditure, shared work/income/parenting etc
Good book is Hondo Solomon's 'The Polygamist Papers'
That depends on how you live too. Home birth costs very little. Keep the baby clothes and reuse them.
My dad was told he didn't make enough to live on by the bank, and he only claimed two of his five when he applied for a loan.
My mom was resourceful and we had opportunities and a quality of life that was way above that of people with more money.
Old news I know but when my children were born I knew I needed to make money so I got a job at a manufacturing outfit in Wa. This was NOT my preferred thing to do, I was called to ministry dang it but I gave that up in order to feed the brats AND afford a house AND a car payment all while wifey did not earn money. Go where the money is and provide for your family. Just my $.02
Nailed it...
All I'm saying is the fact that some women are chosing to have children and families later in life is not a cause for alarm, it's not a "wow" factor for me. Until women get far into their 30s they'll most likely be able to have children and a family. I don't understand the rush. Just because it's our bodies ideal time to have children doesn't necessarily mean we should or that we're ready.
Also I've helped financially support two children for 13+ years now along with my Father, it was expensive for both of us lol. They definitely didn't live some extravagant lifestyle, they got the bare minimum for a long time. I also had to work two jobs the entire time to do that. Which means I had to spend time away from raising them to work more.
Looking back- if I would have pursued a better paying career earlier in life I could have worked less and spent more time with family. I can't fault other women for pursuing that option or having it in their back pocket before starting a family.
Just because the option to do things the hard way is there and will inevitably work out in the end doesn't mean we have to take it.
Also I've helped financially support two children for 13+ years now along with my Father, it was expensive for both of us lol. They definitely didn't live some extravagant lifestyle, they got the bare minimum for a long time. I also had to work two jobs the entire time to do that. Which means I had to spend time away from raising them to work more.
Looking back- if I would have pursued a better paying career earlier in life I could have worked less and spent more time with family. I can't fault other women for pursuing that option or having it in their back pocket before starting a family.
Just because the option to do things the hard way is there and will inevitably work out in the end doesn't mean we have to take it.
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That is quite clear.
Most likely not. But I’m glad you’re caring for what you do have!
The concern might be that by the time someone is ready for all the things such woman decided she wants that those things will be readily present to make happen on her time frame and terms with minimal “bumps”. Sometimes yes, magically her mister right is immediately found and he’s ready to get married and start their family right away too. That would be great. However quite often what ends up happening is she realizes, she’s got to make all her marriage and children desires happen rather quickly; and her options are not going to be the same as they were when she was younger.
The other caution worth considering is that the description and perspective in the post seems in and of itself harmless but what stood out to me was a primary focus on self. When thinking of marriage, children and family, all of which are precious and worthy, I would encourage taking the time to keep in mind God’s design and plan. With everything in life, God lays out the ideal plan for our own good even when we might think another way would be much better.
Another interesting observation was the mention of what is easier/ cheaper and equating that to somehow being better. The Lord doesn’t promise us an easier life by following Him but one that leads to fulfillment, peace, and love among countless other blessings.
The other caution worth considering is that the description and perspective in the post seems in and of itself harmless but what stood out to me was a primary focus on self. When thinking of marriage, children and family, all of which are precious and worthy, I would encourage taking the time to keep in mind God’s design and plan. With everything in life, God lays out the ideal plan for our own good even when we might think another way would be much better.
Another interesting observation was the mention of what is easier/ cheaper and equating that to somehow being better. The Lord doesn’t promise us an easier life by following Him but one that leads to fulfillment, peace, and love among countless other blessings.
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Definitely. My concern comes from us faulting other women for taking options that are not our personal ideal. Particularly when (in my opinion) there are valid arguments for pursuing a career and waiting to start a family. Just as there are valid arguments for not.
I see. Previous posts came across to me as offering more of different examples how a woman has the option to do both if she wanted to, career and family, and posts sharing considerations, than faulting another.
I conclude it as difference of perspective is all.
Genesis 1:28 KJV And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Genesis 9:7 KJV And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
So you don't understand the rush? The above 2 passages, encourage 2 separate men, 2 separate beginnings if you will, to be fruitful and multiply. The first, was to populate a brand new earth. The second, was to repopulate a destroyed earth. We as believers need to be in a hurry, oops my bad, in a rush to bring forth a Godly seed, that will be pleasing to YaHWeH.
YaHWeH knows our body, knows a woman's body a lot better than we do. Therefore He encourages us to leave our father and mother, cleave to our women, and make babies. And yes I am aware that in some rare cases, that there was a lot of practicing before some of these rare case women got pregnant.
So let me get this straight, you helped financially support two children for 13+ years, that got the bare minimum, that required a 3 income home? You helped your father, I am assuming he was working and you worked 2 jobs the entire time? I am trying to wrap my brain around this, because I was a 1 income home, took care of 4 children and paid child support for my oldest child, who was from an old girlfriend, and I want to repeat, all on 1 income. And I would also like to point out that I know a number of families who made less money than I did, and who actually had more children than I did, do it all on 1 income.
I believe this is the lie that the wicked one has spread to women of today, and that lie is to get women into the work place and away from home taking care of children and relying on others to raise and take care of their children, baby sitters, government school aka public school, etc.. When you read the Scriptures just about everything was done at home, family business, which was passed on from generation to generation, mamas/grandmas teaching daughters...
Titus 2:3-5 KJV The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; (4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, (5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
And Yes I am fully aware of the Prov. 31 woman...
Proverbs 31:10-31 KJV Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. (11) The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. (12) She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. (13) She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. (14) She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. (15) She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. (16) She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. (17) She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. (18) She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. (19) She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. (20) She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. (21) She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. (22) She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. (23) Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. (24) She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. (25) Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. (26) She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. (27) She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. (28) Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her. (29) Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. (30) Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. (31) Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
Those are primarily biblical opinions, the article was related to women as a whole, unless I missed something. This goes back to my opinion of holding others to our ideals.
Also there was no lie spread to influence my opinion, it's from my personal experience. Looking back I could have spent far more time at home with my family instead of working if I had taken the educational opportunities offered to me at the time because I would have made a better income. I don't regret putting family first, I believe it was the path God put me on for a reason but I could have made better choices. I can't blame other women for not wanting to take the difficult route if they don't have to.
I referenced there were/are times the children got the bare minimum. My father's income has to support my disabled mother and his own household. Their medical insurance which they both need is $1,500 per month on its own, they have a house note and a car payment, medication deductibles are ridiculous.
Y'all have to remember that as a single woman with no dependents to claim, a large portion of my paychecks are taxed, there are times when I've worked overtime and literally 50% of my paycheck went to taxes- as well as adding to my 401k and paying my own health insurance. My second job doesn't pay nearly good as my first, it's just extra income to help support my own household. My niece's braces were 10k alone this year. The children's health and dental insurance is $300+ per month. We have $600+ electric bills at their home, sports fees are $150 per child, they both play multiple sports, school supplies are $100 plus $100 school supply fees, we spend $300 on food per week for their household on a good week. They grow out of clothes faster than we can buy them and we get those clothes at goodwill when possible lol I could go on and on.
Yes we can support them on one or two incomes but it would be difficult. I can't imagine God wants us to void common sense and opportunities at all times based on Bible verses which offer no real timeline themselves.
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It frustrates me that people constantly talk about the cost of children, but never about the investment value of children. A human being over the course of their lifetime will generate so much more value for society, especially their extended family (provided personal relationships are maintained) and the government (through taxes), than any other investment.
Children are not a cost - like a pet, or a car, or anything else that has no enduring value. They are an investment.
And ultimately they are one of the few investments that really matter for eternity.
Having said that @LovesDogs, I do appreciate the practical considerations here:
I must say that I can never understand how the USA has high tax rates - then people need medical insurance on top of that just to pay for healthcare. While we can criticise socialism till the cows come home, but in socialist countries like New Zealand and much of Europe tax rates are still comparable yet healthcare is free (somehow covered within those taxes). There's something very rotten in the US medical system to make medical insurance and direct expenses so much of a drain on everybody's incomes.
On the other hand, housing is dirt cheap in the USA compared to over here. So there are swings and roundabouts.
And it's worth bearing in mind that the high tax rates you mention are due in part to the system being set up to accommodate married couples with children, not single people supporting children who are not their own. The highly taxed situation you describe, although the reality of your life, is not necessarily the reality for a married couple with children, nor the situation for a polygamous family. Please be very clear that I'm not criticising your life, I am rather pointing out that the hypothetical situation we are discussing (marrying young and having lots of children) is not necessarily as financially problematic as your experience of a different situation has led you to assume.
Were they taking options or walking a path that they were pushed upon by the culture? A path that benefits the all mighty GDP, corporations, the educational industry and the tax base primarily. Without the cultural push over generations, would women bounce from relationship to relationship be they marriage or "hookups" their body count decreasing their ability to permanently bond? Who has benefited by these changes? Is there any connection between the cultural shift and women's multigenerational decreasing levels of happiness?
Being cognizant of the fact that people...generally those who get their news from twitter or comedians on late night television...like to bandy about terms like conspiracy theorists or as was said to me "you have a lot of crazy ideas". The thing is that whether one believes in overarching conspiracies or prefers to think that various powers are advancing the same direction because they see advantage and an achievement of their goals by working in parallel, the result is the same. Women have less children and everyone is less happy. Is it women organically choosing or are they being managed with cultural pressure?
I would think that one of the best ways of knowing if the path we are walking is a good choice is far less about getting bogged down in the various factors of our current situation and instead looking to groups who are not walking our path. Whether it is some of the woman here who have lead very different lives, religious sects who have eschewed modernity, countries who are only just settling their foot on our path but still retain much of their traditional culture or historical examples.
Lots more to say here and probably will go through some of the specifics that you mentioned through the thread a bit later but the notion this time was to get you to consider that the situation we find ourselves in is not just artificial and imposed upon us but not sustainable in the long term. Plus...people simply are not happy. Women especially so if we belive the studies.
That's true but the truth is they cost money, saying that out loud doesn't negate the value they bring. I think I've mentioned a million times how much these kids mean to me but I used the expenses as an example of how I could have spent more time with them had I taken the educational opportunities offered to me at a younger age thus the ability to have a higher paying job. It would have been awesome to spend more time at home with them because I love them so much. This is why I have difficulty seeing fault in women who chose to pursue a higher paying career or education before starting a family.
I'm curious how much is housing there? Housing has went through the roof here lately, I know even the crime ridden places here are $1,000 per month and the average rent is $1,300- $2,000 per month. Which I think is ridiculous still lol
I forget some are not from the US so when they talk about children not being expensive it shocks me a little lol I know many here don't have health insurance at all, there have been times myself, my parents and the kids didn't have it at all. The healthcare system here is shameful. The insurance we have for the kids doesn't even cover braces, my niece has had two sets which were 10k each. We're still paying back the loan for the last set and my nephew is going to need them soon as well. My parents health insurance is around $1,500 per month because my mom has heart problems, that is with a $2,500 yearly deductible which means they have to spend $2,500 of their own money per year before insurance will cover the rest. They have $50-$100 doctor visit co-pays, my mom goes a few times per month and medication co-pays as well.
That's true, it's something I have to keep in mind as well and that others are not from the US. I was answering Edward's question specifically about why we struggle to provide for them with multiple incomes while other families can do it with one therefore I was providing our cost explanations for our particular situation.
I just assumed the article was directly primarily towards women in the US because it seems women here are the ones being glorified for waiting longer to have children and marry. Which I still don't necessarily have an issue with as long as it's not to their detriment.
Also I agree that polygamy if done correctly could put a dent in many of these issues however many polygamist households in the US are notorious for being on public assistance which sort of defeats the purpose.
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Definitely considered those things as well. That's why I don't really support women chosing that path to their own detriment, I just don't think the solution is getting married and having children entirely too young, just to struggle to financially care for them. I find both scenarios a bit extreme, what's wrong with a happy medium and a little preparation? Not only for our own sake but for our children and families.