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What the Lord has shown me.

I have been praying about this topic and finally am able to write my response. I know that without a doubt that God impressed upon The Chaplain to write what he did. All of us may not agree or understand what he wrote but I think we can agree that when God places something on your heart that He wants you to share then you need to do it no matter what others may think or feel about it. As he stated God has laid this subject on his heart for a long time and he had to submit to God's will and post what God has told him too.

I think if we all read his post carefully and not just take it at face value then God can use something in the post to speak to us. Not everything in the post will pertain to everyone but I feel that we all can glean something from it. Some of the post can speak to all of us and maybe the whole post can speak to some of us.

No matter what your thoughts on the subject I can assure you that The Chaplain is a Godly man and strives to grow in his walk and be the man that God wants him to be. If he has stepped on someone's toes or riled you up, that was not his intent. Whatever my thoughts on the subject are my own but I can tell you that I am not always a submissive wife. I can be rebellious, stubborn, and want my own way and when I let those attitudes take over my life, they have caused The Chaplain as well as others in my family pain and heartache but I have learned from my past mistakes and try to put them behind me and not let satan have a toehold in my life through them. I am like all of you on here, I am a work in progress. God isn't finished with me yet... so give me time to be the woman that God needs and wants me to be as everyone on here can hopefully agree with for themselves.

I do agree that when I, as a woman, feel pressured to be submissive that if i am submissive it is with a wrong heart but when I do it willingly then I am doing it with the right heart and spirit. It's like tithing or giving above your tithe. If you give it with the wrong motive or intention then it does not honor God....BUT when you tithe and give gifts above your tithe with the right spirit and the right heart then not only does it honor God but then God blesses you beyond measure. It is given back to you pressed down and then filled overflowing.

These are my own thoughts on the subject and I am at peace by what I have written. Does it make me want to be fully submissive and not voice my opinions whether they are asked for or not???? hmmmm all I can answer is that The Chaplain has his hands full...
 
This is an excellent topic, and obviously one which is not without controversy. It has been, over time, the subject of much "gnashing of teeth" in my own house as well; for that reason, among others -- since I have made the same mistakes myself! -- I have refrained from commenting until now.

Much has already been well and properly clarified.

We have to keep in mind that the husband is to submit to the headship of Christ, but we are dealing with imperfect vessels. Also, though wives are to submit to their husbands, they do so only in ultimate submission to Christ and His authority. What if, in doing His best to be a godly husband, he ultimately fails?

The wife should not be forced to submit to a man's sin or error. That would make God a partner with sin, commanding the wife to obey the husband.
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While I agree in part, Doc (including such terminology as "forced") I disagree as well when it comes to "error", or even 'unintentional' sin (as distinguished from rebellion to God.)

As has been noted, there is a husband's proper Authority, in submission to our King, to which submission is properly commanded. If he is clearly in rebellion to the Word of God, then he is also clearly not in submission to God.

But one who is "nuts" is a far different issue; arguably, most of God's annointed prophets would qualify, based on the world's definitions. (I found myself re-reading the story of Elisha in II Kings 6 for another study this very morning - and it seems like one case in point. :) ) It is far to easy for anyone who doesn't want to submit to authority - for whatever reason - to claim that someone is "nuts", or otherwise failing to provide appropriate covering, and use that as an excuse for rebellion themselves. It becomes a "gray area" with no objective boundaries that makes genuine Biblical submission a whim, and not a commandment.

The story of Abraham and Sarah (actually Abram and Sarai, at the time - Gen. 12) is key to understanding this point. Abram was wrong to ask Sarai to lie, and pretend to be ONLY his sister. And yet she was obedient, and God protected her!

(And note that, like father, like son - his son later made almost the identical mistake, which teaches a related and yet similar lesson. Paul, too, uses this example as a model of Godly submission to a husband - even when he is in error.)

Blessings,

Mark
 
Chaplain,

This is a great post and clearly from God. I agree 100% with what God has spoken through you, without condition or need for clarification. You are spot on. All other comments are appreciated as well. I do have issue with one though...

Doc,

My spiritual school of thought has always been that God doesn't have Lone Rangers (and by the way, even the Lone Ranger had Tonto!) It is important IMO that as men of God, we WILLINGLY submit ourselves to someone of spiritual authority. This prevents us from drifting into error.
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If this is true, then who was John the Baptist?

Be blessed,

Ray
 
Ray,

I don't know who John The Baptist was under spiritual authority to. The Scripture doesn't say.

I do know that as an observer of human nature and over twenty years of full time ministry, that it appears redeemed men serve God best under authority.

Are there exceptions to this? You bet. I can count on my right hand the number of men I have met in my life that were truly humble men of God that were under direct authority to God by the Holy Spirit. And I would gather to say these men would also say that it is better to be under authority to a spiritual mentor.

And, just to quantify this, it is only my opinion.....

Blessings,
 
Well Doc, I feel better now. :D When my pastor died, everyone left and God put the ball in my hands. I ran with it and am still running for the Lord. I do not have a human spiritual covering. When someone else criticized me for this, I went to God and asked Him who was my spiritual covering? Jesus said to me, "I AM." I accepted this and have not questioned it since. The reason that I asked the question of you is that the Holy Spirit put it on my heart and I could not keep it back. I hope you were not ofended by it, because I really respect what you say. I hope that one day you will count me on your right, (covenant) hand.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
This is such an old thread but I only recently came across it (actually, SW had it pulled up and I'm so glad she did). I didn't read all the responses, but from the little I did read, I see that some missed the main point of what Chaplain shared. Chaplain, what you shared totally convicted me and made complete sense. I wish I had that understanding throughout this past season in my life. I have realized that part of my problem has been thinking I had certain rights when I had none whatsoever when it came to hubby's relationship with SW. I see how not understanding this concept caused me and them so much more pain and drama.

So ladies/wives, I can vouch that this is a Truth that is to be followed b/c if you don't, you only hurt yourself and those around you. How much simpler to just trust the LORD...take our concerns/worries/anxieties to Him. If hubby is in the wrong, we must have faith that the LORD will deal with Him in His own timing and His own way. I pray I learn my place sooner than later.
 
I agree with SeekHim1. This scripture is the Truth as told by our Creator. It is so hard to deal with. I am struggling with this so bad right now. I would appreciate prayer from any who might read this. My mind is a battlefield, as I am pressing forward to the goal of peace, but I am constantly being bombarded with anxious thoughts that (as hard as it is to admit) are really none of my business. I need to trust Paul. I know I do.
 
zephyr said:
And that's a pair of lucky men.
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That is so sweet and makes me tear up. I may understand certain truths but continue to fail and often, quite miserably. DeeAnn - I am definitely praying for you and would ask for prayer also as now I'm in a different stage but still have my own battlefield of the mind. :(
 
we have come to the understanding that it only works when my wife puts her trust in her Father and trusts in the fact that my heart is toward Him and my desire is to obey Him.
my wife does not have a "stepford" husband. (just out of curiosity, does any one w/out grey hair get that one?) i was born unto trouble as the sparks fly upward, and am not quite perfect yet :)
 
Chaplain and all. This is a very good thread with good discussion and attitudes. I thank God for it. I believe a better overview of Patriarchal authority and wifely relationship could not be given. When something is presented with such clarity, the first thing that comes to mind is the famous "but what ifs". In truth and reality, the "but what ifs" only make up less than 1% of all cases in marital relationships. Those few exceptions are usually problems where we have misunderstandings or rebelliousness on the part of either party. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Thanks again to all for this great thread. :D :!:
 
Hello Chaplain & Everyone
Thank you for posting this. I think you did a good job writing it :) I didn't find anything in it that I disagreed with.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
please let me echo what john said about this being a great thread, i was remiss in jumping in on the one point w/out recognition of the work that had already gone into it.

i also have a question about some of the verses that chaplain quoted:
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself........
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does anyone else see that it is about the husband washing her with the water of the word as well as Yeshua washing His bride?

just thought that i would kick it up a notch :shock:
 
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