• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

What the Lord has shown me.

Chaplain

Member
Real Person
I place this here for this is a Testimony shown to me by the Lord.

I have some items to share that the Lord has shown me that will most likely get me blasted by most, if not all, of the women on here and possibly some men. That is fine by me for I must share what the Lord has so ordered me to share. I am bringing something that I feel the Lord has shown me and has been working on me from the time of HIS revelation about Biblical marriage / Covenant relationships that was shown me a few years ago. What I am about to say here is taken from the following:

Ephesians 5:22-28, 33

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.................Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Let me say this first..........Men, what I am about to say about the above versus may not be the same that the Lord will tell you. I have read, read and re-read all of this time, after time after time, and each time I do it is like the Lord is drilling into my head the same thing about these versus. I am compelled by the Lord to write this for HIS reasons, for they are unknown to me, and for HIS glory

I will use generic names for the man (John), his wife (Jane) and their hopeful / future sisterwife (Doe).

This is what the Lord has told me in a simple way.
Jane must submit herself to the headship / authority of John, just as John must do with Christ and ultimately to the Lord father...........(Now for the blasting).........as John submits himself to Christ in all that he does he is therefore answerable ONLY to Christ for ANY and ALL,............YES I said ANY and ALL actions that he takes part in, this ALSO includes his relationship and actions with Doe.

Jane, as the wife, comes UNDER the AUTHORITY of John and is ANSWERABLE to John for ANY and ALL actions that she takes part in, including her relationship with Doe.

John, as the head and husband of Jane, is now answerable to Christ and the Lord for ANY and ALL actions that Jane takes part in, even those actions she does with Doe. John does not…I will say that again, John DOES NOT have to answer to Jane for ANY actions that he may do, even actions with Doe.

Let me give the following examples.......
John goes and buys a new truck or he decides to put money aside to surprise Jane with a new gift. In either, John DOES NOT have to explain to or answer to Jane for either decision, unless he wishes to do so.

John and Jane wish to do something crazy.......John is answerable for that decision for he is the head of Jane regardless of whose idea it was.

John goes to visit Doe and they go to a movie, ride all over town and then go back to Doe's place where they stand on their heads the rest of the evening........John comes home and Jane ask what went on, at which time she starts giving him the Wright Act about standing on his head all evening with Doe..........this is WRONG...........Jane has no right to do so for she has no right in knowing what John and Doe did. That relationship and the actions done are between Christ, John and Doe. Jane had no right to ask or even question John on what went on. What, if anything, John wishes to tell Jane is up to him. Remember, John is the head not Jane.

Jane goes and visits Doe and they go out to eat, see a movie and maybe have 1 drink during supper. Jane comes home and John asks how it went and what they did. Jane, as the wife and under the headship of John, MUST tell John everything that went on. She has NO RIGHT to not tell John. The actions that went on while Jane and Doe were together come back on the head of John, for he has to answer Christ for the actions of Jane.

Jane goes out and goes on a shopping spree and does not tell John. John finds out and confronts Jane. John demands to know what was bought and how much was spent and orders Jane to return ALL items bought and hand over all credit cards, check book, etc. Jane must submit to this for she must answer to John for all her actions. In turn, had John not done anything, then he would have been held responsible for Jane's actions by the Lord.

.John and Jane go visit Doe. They all curl up on the floor and watch movies to the crack of dawn. John is answerable to Christ the Lord for not only his actions during the movies, but those of Jane as well. He does not have to answer for Doe because they are not in a Covenant Relationship yet.

Doe agrees with the Covenant and joins the family. NOW John is answerable to Christ for not only his actions, those of Jane but also those of Doe. Still, when John and Doe are alone or are off together doing things without Jane, Jane DOES NOT have the right to question either John or Doe on what went on for that is all between John and Doe. What they wish to tell Jane is up to them. The same goes for John and Jane......Doe has NO RIGHT to question them on what they did. John DOES have the right to question either Jane, Doe or both when Jane and Doe go off together, for John is now answerable for both ladies.

Jane and Doe (after she joins the family) MUST submit to John in ALL things from great to small and follow his decisions without question or discussion, just as we are to submit to the Lord in all things and follow HIS direction without question. Should John wish to discuss issues or events with Jane, Doe or both, then that is his right and will be his decision. Once John has made a decision, then he alone will stand in judgment for that decision, not his wife or wives. In turn John is to stand before Jane and Doe ( once she joins the family) as their protector and defender and is to Love them to the point of his own death, just as Christ died for us, so John is to be with his wife / wives. Just as Christ has a personal relationship with each of us and loves us each on our on level, so too is John to love his wife Jane and Doe each on their own level and in their on way. That love may be on a different level for each wife and showed in different ways, so each wife MUST NOT compare her relationship with John to the others relationship for that is not fare to either wife nor John, just like it is not right for us as Christians to compare our walk with the Lord to someone else.

I hope you take this in the spirit it was sent and that you may get a blessing from this.
 
Chaplain

That is what the Lord has shown me also. Once my wife was shown this our lives have been great. I would also like to add that when she stopped raising her voice to me, no more arguments. But with women rights now days try to tell a woman this. :twisted:

God only makes good days.

Dairyfarmer
 
I think the text would agree pretty well with what you said. I would personally make a few notions you may disagree with.

First we cannot be held responsible for any of her actions we do not know about or object too, should a man have the misfortune of a wife doing wrong secretly or despite him I don't believe he will face judgment for it. Of course we are responsible for anything we accept passively just as much as anything we agree with.

Second no right does not equate to wrong. She may ask any questions she likes or ask for any thing she likes, she just can't demand the information.


I think we're on the same page. Either way you're last point about the fault of comparing relationships is surely dead on. Comparing relationships like that can only lead to nit picking little differences and arbitrary jealousy and dissatisfaction.
 
If I am understanding you correctly, then a wife can never discuss anything that a man decides? Are you saying that even if the husband gets the final say so, she has no right to discuss things that affect her life?

This is a question, asked to get better understanding.

Sweet Lissa
 
God set this chain of command right from the begining with Adam being from dust and Eve from Adam. God did nothing when Eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was Adam's job to take care of this problem. But when Adam ate it, then God put his wrath on them.

Dairyfarmer


Yes they can and should discuss things, but he has the final say and that is it, no arguments.
 
Lissa and all,
I wrote the above while out here in the Gulf and was pushing for time. Let me clear up a couple of things.

Yes, Jane and Doe (again once she joins the family ) may and should bring any and all things to John that concerns or effects their lives. When they do, they must make sure they bring ALL information to the table and not just, shall we say, a small piece of the pie. Once John hears what is said, at that point, he can either agree with, disagree with or table the subject for a later time. Once he has made his decision, then that ends all discussion. The wives must submit to his leadership. Hope that answers your question Lissa.


Now to another point about John and Doe. When John came home and shared with Jane that he and Doe stood on their heads all evening and Jane gave him the lashing she diid...the fact she gave John a lashing is what is wrong. She may ask what went on but Jane does not really have the right to know. John can, if he chooses, tell Jane all or nothing of what happened. Again, the relationship goes from Christ, to John to Doe. John is responsible to Christ and Christ only, not to Jane, for his actions with Doe.

Tlaloc, I agree with your first point and hope that I have cleared up your second point.
 
Chaplain said:
Yes, Jane and Doe (again once she joins the family ) may and should bring any and all things to John that concerns or effects their lives. When they do, they must make sure they bring ALL information to the table and not just, shall we say, a small piece of the pie. Once John hears what is said, at that point, he can either agree with, disagree with or table the subject for a later time. Once he has made his decision, then that ends all discussion. The wives must submit to his leadership. Hope that answers your question Lissa.


John, Jane and Doe are standing hand-in-hand on the tenth floor balcony. John, Jane and Doe are unaware of a tumor in John's brain that is effecting his ability to make rational decisions.

John says: "The Lord has commanded us to jump off the balcony and fly!"

Jane asks: "Are you sure the Lord commanded you to jump"?

"Yes!" John replies.

Doe said: "That seems to me to be an odd command from the Lord".

John answers: "The Lord moves in mysterious ways".

Jane and Doe say: "OK"

And they jump.


I dunno. There is a hole in that rationale somewhere ....

~Rusty
 
I am not sure I am understanding this. Are you talking about absolute submission? What if the husband wants his wife to commit a sin? Like in the above example where the result is suicide.

SweetLIssa
 
So according to this rationale Jane has no right to disapprove of Johns actions or expect him to consult her on anything. You refer to Jane having no right to know any details of what John and Doe may do together.

Would that extend to Jane having no right to know that a relationship even exists between John and Doe? If John wanted to keep Doe a secret is Doe then required to keep that confidence, even if she happens to meet Jane at some point.

I'm not saying i agree or disagree just curious to see how far this goes.
 
This is what the Lord has told me in a simple way.
Jane must submit herself to the headship / authority of John, just as John must do with Christ and ultimately to the Lord father...........(Now for the blasting).........as John submits himself to Christ in all that he does he is therefore answerable ONLY to Christ for ANY and ALL,............YES I said ANY and ALL actions that he takes part in, this ALSO includes his relationship and actions with Doe.

Jane, as the wife, comes UNDER the AUTHORITY of John and is ANSWERABLE to John for ANY and ALL actions that she takes part in, including her relationship with Doe.

John, as the head and husband of Jane, is now answerable to Christ and the Lord for ANY and ALL actions that Jane takes part in, even those actions she does with Doe. John does not..........I will say that again, John DOES NOT have to answer to Jane for ANY actions that he may do, even actions with Doe.


Melanie,
John has the right to not tell Jane anything about his relationship with Doe, even that he has one....BUT......as I am sure all men on this board would agree, as Christian men, that would not be Christ like of him and would not be wise. John does not have to tell anything to Jane about what he and Doe did for again, that relationship is between Christ, John and Doe.

John does not have to get approval from Jane on anything that he may wish to do. He is head over her. He must get approval from the Father. It is John's choice to seek or not to seek advice from Jane.


Lissa,
Yes Jane is to be totally submissive to John in all things. Now, if John is not in his right mind as in what Rusty posted, then they have the free will and the right to not listen to John......

BUT..........and this goes to all my replies..........

if John ( in his right mind here Rusty and all ) is doing his best to be a Godly Christian husband and is trying to follow the leading of the Lord in all he does.......then Jane and Doe ( once she joins the family ) should without question be submissive to the headship and leadership of John in all things and all matters, for if John is trying his best to be the Godly man he should be, then all he does is what is best for his family.
 
Chaplain said:
Yes Jane is to be totally submissive to John in all things. Now, if John is not in his right mind as in what Rusty posted, then they have the free will and the right to not listen to John......

BUT..........and this goes to all my replies..........

if John ( in his right mind here Rusty and all ) is doing his best to be a Godly Christian husband and is trying to follow the leading of the Lord in all he does........

In re-reading my replies, they do seem to be harsh and critical. A flaw of mine. I tried to re-write in a more accommodating tone, and it came across to me as stilted piety. So I returned to the original version and decided to ad this caveat instead: I honestly mean no offense, but I do disagree.

Staying with my illustration for a moment longer, Chaplain, the assumption is that Jane and Doe have no idea that John has become insane. John believes that he heard from the Lord and bolstered his command that he fly with a lame bible cite to Doe. Since neither Jane nor Doe know John has become unhinged, by your assertion, they would be required to show faith and jump with him since they should neither question his relationship with the Lord nor his headship.

I could easily change my story to: John, in a weak moment, covets his neighbor's wife Penelope. Over the fence one day, they decide to meet in town for a little face time. Without telling his wives his plans, he instructs them to prepare Tom a frog-eye salad and go over to his house and keep him busy for the afternoon while he and Penelope indulge in an age old transgression.

Your assertion is that Jane and Doe should not question John's whereabouts, nor whom he went whereabouts with, because he has Godly rights as head of household seems to me to be a flawed theory.

I still suspect that the proper model is that submission is given by the wife, and is not a divine right of the husbands. And at the first sign of godlessness in John, she has a duty to honor her god and NOT follow his lead. That requires JUDGEMENT and DISCERNEMENT, and requires John to be answerable to them.

I am also not persuaded that I can forgive my wives sins and believe that God is automatically programmed to forgive them as well. My wives will one day stand before their God just as I will, and will answer for their own sins, just as I will mine.

~Rusty
 
Yes Chaplain, I think we are cleared up on all points, but you have you're hands full otherwise.

Of course, I'm agreeing to the existence of said authority, not how its best put to use. I think we would see eye to eye on its use too, but I think it would do everyone the best to clarify the difference between what one can do and what one should do. I defended the reason for authority in Rusty's thread, but also commented that there is not usually a need to excersize it on a regular basis.

Thus far the only time I've actively not told my wife what I was up to was if I was working on a surprise for her, I figure that is judicious use for authority.

Anyway, good thread and good discussions everyone.
 
Chaplain said:
This is what the Lord has told me in a simple way.
Jane must submit herself to the headship / authority of John, just as John must do with Christ and ultimately to the Lord father...........(Now for the blasting).........as John submits himself to Christ in all that he does he is therefore answerable ONLY to Christ for ANY and ALL,............YES I said ANY and ALL actions that he takes part in, this ALSO includes his relationship and actions with Doe.

Jane, as the wife, comes UNDER the AUTHORITY of John and is ANSWERABLE to John for ANY and ALL actions that she takes part in, including her relationship with Doe.

John, as the head and husband of Jane, is now answerable to Christ and the Lord for ANY and ALL actions that Jane takes part in, even those actions she does with Doe. John does not..........I will say that again, John DOES NOT have to answer to Jane for ANY actions that he may do, even actions with Doe.


Melanie,
John has the right to not tell Jane anything about his relationship with Doe, even that he has one....BUT......as I am sure all men on this board would agree, as Christian men, that would not be Christ like of him and would not be wise. John does not have to tell anything to Jane about what he and Doe did for again, that relationship is between Christ, John and Doe.

John does not have to get approval from Jane on anything that he may wish to do. He is head over her. He must get approval from the Father. It is John's choice to seek or not to seek advice from Jane.


Lissa,
Yes Jane is to be totally submissive to John in all things. Now, if John is not in his right mind as in what Rusty posted, then they have the free will and the right to not listen to John......

BUT..........and this goes to all my replies..........

if John ( in his right mind here Rusty and all ) is doing his best to be a Godly Christian husband and is trying to follow the leading of the Lord in all he does.......then Jane and Doe ( once she joins the family ) should without question be submissive to the headship and leadership of John in all things and all matters, for if John is trying his best to be the Godly man he should be, then all he does is what is best for his family.


Are you really saying to jump? He may be a godly man who fell and bumped his head or has a physical problem in his brain. I admit we women have taken liberties different from the godly women in the Old Testament, but is the survival instinct in us wrong if our husband say's to jump?
 
Rusty,
I never stated that a man can forgive his wife or wives of there sins, only the Lord can do so.........the husband can forgive the actions of his wife or wives that bring shame, trouble, hardship, things done behind the husbands back or other actions that they may do without his knowledge.........as far as your other comment about submission and divine right of the husband, I will let the words of the Lord speak on that......Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.........


Tlaloc,
I am glad that there are some here who have seen and understand what it is I have tried to post and share. Yes, I do have my hands full........SO....at that I make this statement.

I posted what I felt the Lord has shown me as a means to Glorify Him, to share what HE has stated and will leave the defense of it to HIM via the Holy Spirit as one reads what is written. My limited ability to express myself well via the written word seems to have caused some to not understand fully what the Lord has shown me, and to that I am sorry only to the Lord for my failure to express myself better. I will leave the debate or rather the further discussion of this thread to the board for their means of study or learning.
 
Chaplain said:
My limited ability to express myself well via the written word seems to have caused some to not understand fully what the Lord has shown me, and to that I am sorry only to the Lord for my failure to express myself better. I will leave the debate or rather the further discussion of this thread to the board for their means of study or learning.

That grieves me to the core, Chaplain. In the future, I will let your comments go on by un-commented on. Please forgive me. I meant no offense.

~ Rusty
 
Rusty,
Please post to any and all post that I place on this message board. It is my inability to express fully in writing what the Lord has shared with me that brings about my frustration, if you will. No offense has been made nor none taken nor is there anything to be forgive for. So please, again, post to any and all my post for it is through the discussion of things that we are able to learn and grow. I have ran out of things to say in order to better state what the Lord has shown me. That is all.
 
Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

This seems to say that I should submit to my husband as long as his request is within the parameters of scripture. Am I reading this right?

So the real question to me this...

If my husband tells me to steal from the store to feed our family, am I to do that even though the scriptures clearly tell me not to steal?

In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, Sapphira submitted to her husband and lied to the Holy Spirit. She paid for this with her life. Acts 5: 1-10.

SweetLissa
 
Dear Chap,

Ah, but there's the rub, right?

if John ( in his right mind here Rusty and all ) is doing his best to be a Godly Christian husband and is trying to follow the leading of the Lord in all he does.......then Jane and Doe ( once she joins the family ) should without question be submissive to the headship and leadership of John in all things and all matters, for if John is trying his best to be the Godly man he should be, then all he does is what is best for his family.

We have to keep in mind that the husband is to submit to the headship of Christ, but we are dealing with imperfect vessels. Also, though wives are to submit to their husbands, they do so only in ultimate submission to Christ and His authority. What if, in doing His best to be a godly husband, he ultimately fails?

The wife should not be forced to submit to a man's sin or error. That would make God a partner with sin, commanding the wife to obey the husband.

For those of you with military experience, you are familiar with the term unjust order, or illegal orders. A subordinate is not under any obligation to blindly follow an order that is knowingly unjust or illegal. On the contrary, the subordinate could also be held liable for the SAME crimes that the superior commited.

Oh, and here's something else to throw in the soup, chap. As the husband submits to Christ, is that submission direct or is it to someone of spiritual authority in the husband's life (a pastor, mentor, bishop, etc)? My spiritual school of thought has always been that God doesn't have Lone Rangers (and by the way, even the Lone Ranger had Tonto!) It is important IMO that as men of God, we WILLINGLY submit ourselves to someone of spiritual authority. This prevents us from drifting into error.

This is a great topic, chap. It really gets to the crux of what we believe about submission and authority.
 
Before I make my replies I want everyone to remember something.....I wrote that what I felt impressed upon me to write by the Lord.

Now to my replies.
Doc,
Thanks for your post. The husband is to answer directly to the Lord not to some other person. Now that is not to say that he should not have someone that he can be accountable to in his walk such as a pastor, elder or friend.

I think this reply may settle some questions that others have asked. Again remember what I first posted was what the Lord impressed upon me to write, nothing more, nothing less. I may have done a poor job in writing it with my limited writing skills or I may have wrote it just as it was to be written in the Spirit that it was written for just a few people on here and for no one else. that is how I preach....just what the Lord lays on my heart to say, regardless if it all make sense to me or not.

Now to the reply.
the wife and or wives are to be totally submissive to the husband in all things except in the following cases:
1) if he commands them to do something that goes against Gods word
2) if he commands them to do something that will bring harm to themselves or their family

As Christ must answer to the Father, so to does the husband answer to Christ, and as the husband is head of the wife, she answers to him. The husband does not answer to his wife or wives for his actions. He answers to Christ. If his actions are wrong, it will be Christ who will correct the husband, though HE may use the wife or wives to bring about this correction.


Lissa,
I think I answered your first statement now for your 2nd question. This is MY take on it and does not reflect what the Lord has told me. Should it come a time that things get so bad that my wife and I need to steal food in order to feed my family as a means of survival, then I would do what needs to be done to take care of my family. Again, this is just MY take on it and not what the Lord has told me.
 
Our family has had much discussion about this post and yes I believe you have answered the question. Thank you for clarifying it Chaplain.

Smiles.
SweetLissa
 
Back
Top