If people had just looked up the definitions rather than taking time to argue that they shouldn't look up the definitions, they'd be finished reading them by now...
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General What makes a marriage covenant?
- Thread starter The Revolting Man
- Start date
It's mind boggling that this is even a discussion or point of friction to me.... I don't know how something this basic is at all even necessary to ask for. Can we just all be talking about the same thing to start with?
The Bible has different definitions for the same thing in numerous places.
God created the universe in six literal days, right?
But the Bible also says that for God a thousand years is like a day. And at the time of this Scripture being written there were scant few people alive who grasped the mathematical concepts of 'million' and 'billion' so thousand at the time was colloquial for 'a lot'. Case in point is that in Biblical times the word legion was interchangeably used to mean ten thousand and infinite.
My point is that you just have to agree that some ideas and concepts in the Bible are opaque to us in our time. But what we can see are the outcomes of Godly behavior and practice.
In short, if your understanding of Scripture is correct and you act upon that understanding then you will see this positively reflected in your life.
Thus the man with a happy home is proof of his understanding and the man who postures as pious but whose home is in disarray is revealed to have a flawed understanding and practice.
Before anyone rails at this statement please know my Scriptural basis:
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. - Matthew 7:26
Contrasted to Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. - Matthew 7:24
Nope. Because what we are talking about depends on context. Like if you're in Texas and you mention Paris someone might ask you to clarify which one you mean. But if you are in France they won't.
If I ask you your weight the context will determine what I am asking.
It's one thing if you're at your doctor's office.
Another if you're driving a truck and you're talking to a state trooper.
Yet another if you're a pilot talking to the guy pumping your fuel.
You have a pretty good idea of what marriage is and you see it as a commitment between two people.
@AbrahamSolomon sees marriage as something akin to purchasing a servant thus his contextual discussion centers on terms like subservience, Master, submission, and terms like that. He has said he wants to make women kneel before him.
It's the exact same subject you're discussing, on the same forum, yet with completely different understandings and practices. Abraham has a completely different context for his beliefs than you do. For that matter, I do too.
And then we all weigh our understanding of Scripture against our favorite Scripture, our life choices (like poly), and etc.
Jesus knowing where to cast a net is an interesting story to me but for a fisherman this is serious stuff and it will resonate with him more than it will with a hunter who has no idea of fishing.
We just each must first seek our own understanding, relate it to our lives and experiences, and apply it before we can even start to reconcile our understandings with others.
But we can always come together on the basics and start from there.
You haven’t even proven that covenants have anything to do with marriage. An in depth study of covenants is conceding a point I am not willing to concede. Malachi 2 not withstanding, the definition of covenant is irrelevant until you establish that a covenant is relevant.
Off-gridinwv
New Member
Nor has anyone explained how making a covenant with a divorced woman could constitute adultery nor how a eunuch wouldn't be able to make a covenant
I have, you reject it. That’s fine.
That is not a redefinition of the word "day" (yom). It is a statement that would make no sense unless the words "thousand years" and "day" had fixed definitions that were already known to the audience. The point of that statement is that God is not bound by time in the same way that we are. It requires two known and very different measures of time to make that point. But each measure still has a clear and known definition. The sentence only makes sense because we know what a "day" is, and what "a thousand years" is, and that they are near-opposites.
Not getting into a creation debate - that's a separate matter. Just talking about the definition of words.
While here the word legion again has a clear and understood meaning - "a very large number". Sometimes it's a precise number, sometimes an infinite number, and it is clearly understood that it can mean either depending on the context. But it's always "a very large number", and that definition allows us to understand what is being said.
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There is a fundamental error underlying much of this discussion and it's confusing the clarity of what is written. The Bible, and any passage in the Bible, is not about you or what a passage means to you; it's about God. The Bible begins with God and ends with God and He tells humanity what He wants them to know. The first point that must be addressed is, What did God say and therefore what did He intend for His audience to know/believe/do - or not do - by what He said? Start with God, not yourself and what you think or believe. Study to learn more about who God is and what He said. God says He is the eternal Creator and He says He created the world in six days and rested the seventh so believe Him. Why believe the words of sinful fallen men who were not there, who didn't see what took place, and who keep changing their story? Why place their corrupted ever-changing ideas above the word of God who Himself created it and is the Truth? He was there, He saw it all happen and He says it was Six days with an evening and morning each day. Adam lived through part of day Six and all of day Seven and was only 930 years old when he died. Stop twisting Holy Scripture to make it say something that contradicts the obvious meaning. Adam had the right to have sex with Eve because God gave him Eve. It was because God created Eve and had given Eve to him that Adam had the right to have sex with Eve. Jacob had an agreement with Laban that gave him the right to go in to Laban's daughters and have sex with them. Jacob didn't have the right for sexual relationships with Laban's daughters until the terms of the agreement were met. Men are to have sex with their own women and a woman is to have sex with her own man. Get over it. Accept that having sex with a woman you have no right to have sex with doesn't make her your wife. Jacob only had sex with Rachel and Leah's maids when they gave the maids to Jacob. Once they were his, he did what a man does with his new women; he made babies.
The prophet Malachi wrote, Yet you say, “For what reason?” Because the Lord has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant.
Hate on me all you want but I've got covid so I'm going back to bed.
The prophet Malachi wrote, Yet you say, “For what reason?” Because the Lord has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant.
Hate on me all you want but I've got covid so I'm going back to bed.
I submit to G-d and bow before my King and I expect all my wives and my children to do the same to me.
But I Love all of my wives and my children as G-d Loves me as well. But we must submit and Obey for there is no other way.
You have not.
You claim to be a teacher and a scholar. Nothing in this post lives up to either standard.
What constitutes a covenant? Where is it commanded? Who enforced it? Can a woman divorce her husband if he doesn’t live up to it? Who adjudicates that?
There’s a penalty for putting burdens on the people and you have burdened them with a standard that you can’t tell them how to carry. No one can show us how to have a marriage covenant. Or even who it’s with. Is it with the woman? The father? The Father? You don’t know because it doesn’t exist.
So where do we as followers of Yah go from there??
Read the Law
Read the Law
Read the Law
Read the Law
Read the Law
We can, but you won't even talk about the same thing. You won't accept the definition of a covenant, nor will you even stoop so low as to spend a couple hours reading the Word to find out for yourself if the definition given is correct.
Yes we can. Repeat what I posted above.
If you would read the Word, you would know because it does exist and in spades.
Maybe not always but sometimes it does.
Yes, in this case it does.
Unmarried Raped Woman: “the man who raped her is to give the young woman's father fifty silver shekels, and she will become his wife"
Having No Right could mean she is not free to become your (Wife) as with Any Woman who is Married and put away for any cause can not marry till her husband is Dead. But then we must look into If he was a non believer and he left here, then she is free to marry.
Not all sex can lead to marriage and not all Woman can be a Wife! But maybe a (Concubine: a wife/woman or female/sexual partner of secondary status (Covenant) No)
Somewhere where there’s no talk of marriage covenants hopefully.
You read the Law. You find me one reference to a marriage covenant and how to perform one. If the Law is what’s important then quote the Law. You have no Law. You have no Law. You have no Law.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You don't know the definition of the word so it's impossible to have a discussion on the subject because I won't conform to your misunderstanding of what a covenant is. Since I won't do that, we can't even discuss the thing.
I find it interesting that you refuse to read some scripture where numerous people have said there is instruction.
There's no point in my engaging with anybody on a scriptural topic when they refuse to read Torah on the subject. I'm happy to read anything in scripture when someone tells me my position is incorrect. So I'm not going to waste my time when you won't rise to that minimum threshold of reading scripture enough to define the terms we're discussing.
I couldn't care less if you believe sex is the only thing required for marriage. But your arguments are completely unconvincing eisegesis.
I have better things to do than repeat myself and the proofs I've already provided.
Ya'll have fun! I have a shovel to operate!
Run away! Run away! Run away!