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Tucker Carlson video

Asforme&myhouse said:
As time goes on it is getting harder for my wife and I to enjoy fellowshiping there.
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We have the same problem. I'm especially concerned about this because the attitudes are toxic to marriages. It is not for nothing that the divorce rate in the church differs little from the world.

And in relation to the OP, the attitudes are toxic to young men as well and their understanding of the world and women.
 
rockfox said:
So it's like pastors act as enforcers for the feminist wives who in turn reward them.
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"Happy wife, happy life", right? Taught from many pulpits, the doctrine that the main way you can tell who's a "good Christian husband" is how happy his wife is....

In other news, years before polygamy was on my radar, I noticed that the church I was attending had a whole bunch of women that admired/respected the pastor in ways that they did not admire or respect their own husbands. Not much different from a cult, really, except that it was a 'nice' Southern Baptist church that nobody in our greater church-going culture would have had a problem with.

This rabbit hole gets pretty deep pretty quickly. Women that are dependent for spiritual direction on men (or women) other than their husband are going have their brains organize neurons ("fire it, wire it") in a certain way without any conscious effort. Women that are employed outside the home (thus having a provider other than their husband) are going have their brains organize neurons ("fire it, wire it") in a certain way without any conscious effort. Breaking out of our culture's mindset requires a lot of rewiring just to get back to neutral. Meanwhile, the husband in this picture is more like a glorified roommate with benefits.

At the last retreat we had, I got a little animated (might even say a little heated...) when someone suggested that maybe BF ought to develop programs for the children and teenagers at retreat. My position then and now is that I don't need to consume resources to travel across the country so my teenagers can be talked to about God by another adult. I've got that handled, thank you very much, and if I wanted or needed to send my kids to Sunday School to learn about God, I could throw a rock from my house and hit five churches (okay, that's hyperbole, but still...). We come to retreats primarily for the fellowship and the worship—the communion, so to speak. We exist to help equip men to lead and manage their own households, not do it for you.

But I digress. A little. Or do I? The institutions that provide for our women and children and tell them what to believe and how to think are there because they provide a supply that meets a demand. As we identify the problem, my assertion is that the solution lies in the direction of independent, self-sufficient families.† If you don't already have a family business or enterprise that has all your family members working together to accomplish a meaningful mission, if you don't already have a form of family 'church' (that is, family worship, prayer, and study together), just your own family if it's large, or maybe a couple of families if they're both small (think, 'passover lamb'...), then consider this a suggestion to start praying about moving in that direction. We men will have to work to reclaim our leadership over our own households while we are critiquing the cultural norms.

Lots to think about....

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† By "self-sufficient", I don't necessarily mean living on a self-sufficient farm (although that's pretty cool), I just mean that the family business provides for the family. We run a music school and do website design (so two businesses). One of my brothers-in-law is a plumber, and his wife does all the book work and phone work while he's out plumbing. That sort of thing.
 
rockfox said:
Marriage isn't just about forcing men to support their children. Men are usually self driven to do that. But they can't if the women won't allow it. Marriage is more about guaranteeing men's access to his children while protecting his paternity by restricting women's sexuality. You can have a civilization with unrestricted male sexuality so long as marriage is protected. But you can't have a civilization with unrestrained female sexuality as it leads to alienating men from their children and broken women who are unable to successfully pair bond to one man.
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This is key, and I think we may have one or two other threads around here that get into that more. Viewing marriage as a way to restrict male sexuality is bass ackwards. Or again (I mentioned this earlier), to the extent it is an 'imposition' on male sexuality, the male is restricted in his relationship with other males to being responsible for his own children, while being simultaneously freed from the obligation to support other men's children.

Sort of circling back to the OP, "motherhood" is what happens when a woman conceives a child and gives birth. Everyone knows it's hers, duh, so in that sense it can be seen as 'natural' or even 'automatic'. "Fatherhood" is what happens when a bunch of men agree that each man is responsible for his own offspring and the woman who bore them and only for his own women and children, and in that sense is more of a social construct (that is being torn apart in our lifetime by our rapidly dying culture).
 
rockfox said:
I get the money part. But the end result too often results in wife worship; which seems to indicate deeper causes I haven't been able to put my finger on quite yet.
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rockfox said:
he is a women worshiper who operates on the women good, men evil perspective
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Aside from the fear of offending women, I wonder whether some of the notion of women being more virtuous than men comes from their empathizing, more Agreeable (in the Big Five personality sense), and more people-pleasing nature, which promotes in-group harmony, expresses agression passively, and avoids rocking the boat (feminists notwithstanding). If one's sense of morality is centered primarily on causing the least amount of overt offense to people, then by that metric, women might seem to be more virtuous. But that is not strictly a Christian morality (though it is deceptively close). Even Jesus was a rock of offense, and stood up not only against the Pharisees, but also his own disciples on occasion.

andrew said:
Women that are employed outside the home (thus having a provider other than their husband) are going have their brains organize neurons ("fire it, wire it") in a certain way without any conscious effort. Breaking out of our culture's mindset requires a lot of rewiring just to get back to neutral.
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andrew said:
The institutions that provide for our women and children and tell them what to believe and how to think are there because they provide a supply that meets a demand. As we identify the problem, my assertion is that the solution lies in the direction of independent, self-sufficient families.† If you don't already have a family business or enterprise that has all your family members working together to accomplish a meaningful mission... then consider this a suggestion to start praying about moving in that direction.
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This was one of my biggest take-aways from reading "The Great Omission". The bulk of the book itself, I didn't find that impressive; it was mostly a regurgitation of things others had written (it reminded me of a bulletin board plastered with newspaper clippings), about half of which I'd already read, stitched together with "According to so-and-so"'s, and with a few appeals to emotion thrown in (which always triggers my spidey-senses). But I think it was one of the appendices that made the argument that separating men from their wives in the modern work environment was so harmful to the family, specifically, with men finding helpers in other women, and women providing help to other men. That made so much sense, and has stuck with me ever since. As a corporate worker (and single man), it's really given me a lot to think about.
 
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andrew said:
But I digress. A little. Or do I? The institutions that provide for our women and children and tell them what to believe and how to think are there because they provide a supply that meets a demand. As we identify the problem, my assertion is that the solution lies in the direction of independent, self-sufficient families.† If you don't already have a family business or enterprise that has all your family members working together to accomplish a meaningful mission, if you don't already have a form of family 'church' (that is, family worship, prayer, and study together), just your own family if it's large, or maybe a couple of families if they're both small (think, 'passover lamb'...), then consider this a suggestion to start praying about moving in that direction. We men will have to work to reclaim our leadership over our own households while we are critiquing the cultural norms.

Lots to think about....

--------
† By "self-sufficient", I don't necessarily mean living on a self-sufficient farm (although that's pretty cool), I just mean that the family business provides for the family. We run a music school and do website design (so two businesses). One of my brothers-in-law is a plumber, and his wife does all the book work and phone work while he's out plumbing. That sort of thing.
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No... NO, do NOT digress! You’re right on!
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
No... NO, do NOT digress! You’re right on!
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And how is this right on? Its not just about the wife helping the husband. The family business includes the children too. Working together as a family on a common goal gives their life direction, meaning, and a hope for future employment.

Contrast this with a kid with nor more vision than just getting through 12 years of school so he can try and get into an expensive school somewhere for another 4 years of school he can't afford followed by getting a job in something somewhere he hopes.
 
rockfox said:
Its not just about the wife helping the husband. The family business includes the children too.
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Piggybacking on this a bit: I stole from Stephen Clark the idea that when God said "it is not good for man to be alone", he didn't just create a partner for Adam, he created a life-giver that would give birth to sons and daughters (so really, really "not alone"). It might even be argued that the principal thrust of that would be that Adam would have sons "in his image and likeness" as God had his, so the father/son relationship is the actual solution to the "not alone" problem, but I don't think it's an either/or situation, but both/and—the women and the children.
 
Church/spiritual life is often treated like a consumer transaction. Women are often charged with the responsibilities of food marketing, so shopping for an assembly that will serve all their needs and wants becomes natural to them. It's quite disappointing to see.

So.........even in food and clothes shopping, our household does it together. The family that shops together......
 
ZecAustin said:
This is pretty much Focus on the Family's entire business model.
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I know that people passing me, while I’m driving, probably think I’m a crazy person when Focus on the Family pops on the radio. I’m all cracking up laughing at the ridiculous things they say on there, and then of course I have a running commentary over the dialogue... of course your marriage is falling apart, man, your wife married a women... quit whining about your emotions, dude, and read your Bible!

I know I probably shouldn’t listen to it at all. I would be a decent comedy if they weren’t causing so much mayhem in christian families.
 
ZecAustin said:
On this note, did you guys see the story about the high demand for American sperm in Brazil?
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Now that would be an interesting home based business.
 
steve said:
Now that would be an interesting home based business.
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Multiple wives to accommodate, and donations! What multi vitamins are needed for that? Talk about über mensch!
 
Time for new resumes, gents:

“For that distinctive balding look.....”
 
That was the introductory sentence for mine, in case I am not communicating adequately.
 
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