To leave her alone....or not to leave her alone...???

[wifeone]

Sticky situation here....or not so sticky if I don't take any action. A little over a year ago, I had brought up polygamy to my husband. I was feeling overwhelmed as a stay at home mom. I wondered how any woman could handle such great responsibilities on her own, for years, and have to battle with occasional loneliness at the same time. Then my mind went back to the Bible accounts of men with more than one wife. And I wished I was in that type of marriage. Thus....my curiosity was sparked and I brought it up to my husband. He could find no fault in it. I decided to research it deeper. I still didn't know if it was truly OK in the eyes of God. I couldn't really find anything about it apart from the Mormons and cultures of other countries.

Then we started to spend a lot of time with a young lady from our church who was moving with her family. We all had an amazing and instant connection. It's was like some unspoken force was pulling us together....but we didn't even know what to call it. It was a tugging on all of our hearts. The problem, is that we were never all on the same page. My husband knew that she should be his second wife. And she knew too. I didn't know. My husband was afraid to tell me how much he loved her. I could tell that he loved her so much (and he still does to this day). But I didn't know how serious it was between them. They opened up to each other.....but they were afraid to tell me. They were afraid that they would hurt me. Through out this whole thing, I was trying to guess what was going on. Then my hubby kind of dropped the bomb on me and told me how much he loved her. But he didn't tell me how much she loved him. I had no idea that they were on the same page. I thought that he was still in pursuit of her. But they were actually very much committed to each other already. She was ready to get married and spend the rest of her life with us. I had no clue. I was worried that maybe she thought that we were crazy. I tried to talk with her about polygamy and was so nervous about it, that she thought that I didn't want to really live it. So wrong! I really did want to. I was just still in my researching phase. So me and her both started to act very unsure about everything. Then my husband started to think that we were not comfortable with each other, and that maybe we did not want to join in marriage together, so he kind of broke it off with her. She was going to move in to be a nanny to help me with the kids. But that got called off too. She ended up moving away with her family.

There is so much more that happened in between the lines written above. It was a long story Basically it was a big mess of : not enough communication, three scared people, and the opportunity of a lifetime that got missed. It's crazy because here we are a year later....and I still can't get her out of my head. She was the perfect compliment to our family. Looking towards the future, I can see all the places where she would fit in so perfectly! She had so much in common with both of us. Every now and then, my husband and I talk about it. He will always love her. And so will I. When she left, it wasn't on a bad note. It was on a confused note. We all have cried about it. But we just didn't know what to do at the time.

Now I kick myself in the but, because, since then, I have found this web site and other Christians that believe and teach about polygyny. So, we have not talked to her since that time over a year ago. I have her as a friend on a social networking site. I have made rare comments on some things that she posts from time to time....like art work, or a video or something like that. She never responds. But at least she has not deleted me or anything. I wonder if she keeps me on there b/c she wonders about us....or maybe she just feels bad about deleting me. She also has a boyfriend now. I think she went back to an ex.

So I have a some questions that I really need some opinions about...

Ladies.....If you were that young lady, would you be upset if I wrote you a letter? In the letter I want to clear up all of the confusion there had been; and tell her that I really did want her to be a part of our family, and that my husband still loves her. This letter is out of the blue, and it could make her feel really upset or unsettled b/c she is in another relationship right now. But I feel like I will just be letting another chance of a lifetime roll by if I don't say something before she eventually does get married someday. I figure it's fair game now, b/c she is not engaged or anything.

Guys....if you were my husband, would you be upset if I took the initiative to write such a letter without you being aware? If she came back....my hubby would be thrilled. If not....should I even tell him that I wrote the letter?

This has been bothering me for over a year....I just think I really need closure....I am so afraid to write to her. What if she hates me for bringing something like this up again and getting her all emotional over it again? What if her boyfriend gets really upset, if she tells him about the whole situation? How embarrassing.......But what if I am letting an amazing member of our family slip through the cracks again? Please help me out! any words of advice and prayers are very welcomed! Thanks in advance my fellow sisters and brothers in the Lord!

Wifeone
(hopefully not the only "one" for long!)

 

[sweetlissa]

Wifeone,

I voted that you should write to her. One reason for that is that you need to seek forgiveness if there is anything that you did to sin against her. Beyond that there is much left that needs to be discerned.

1. is the relationship with the new boyfriend a serious one? Because if your letter were received correctly it could create conflict in that relationship.
2. Are you prepared for the consequences of your actions. Meaning if she wants to come back are you prepared for that and if she doesn't are you prepared for that as well.

If you write the letter you MUST tell hubby. If she says yes, then he needs time to prepare his heart and to celebrate. Who would take the celebration and joy away from him. And if she says no, then you can end his pining and let him know that it is truly over. No matter what, you all need to have this closure.

The end of a relationship is painful. I hope that you can salvage this relationship. I also hope that everyone who reads your post understands what the consequences for secrets and poor communication are.

SweetLissa

 

[CecilW]

Couldn't have answered it better myself, Lissa.

What if, in her heart, she's pining over all y'alls, too? Would it be fair to the new boyfriend to sacrifice your family in his favor? Would you condemn him to a lifetime of knowing that something was just a bit "off" in his marriage, but never knowing what it was or how to fix it, because a part of her heart belonged, truly belonged, to your husband?

Write the letter. Show it to your husband. I would guess that a hand-written postscript by him might be effective as well.

 

[nathan]

I think it's fine to write also, as long as you don't put her on the spot, require an answer, and just seek to clear the air from your perspective. (And talk with your husband first, as Lissa said.) But a woman's heart is made to be focused only on one man, so if's it already turned elsewhere, I think it's unlikely to change anything for her. Most likely that "ship has sailed" for her.

I have something to add that may not be popular: My situation (13 years ago) was not that different from yours: a single friend from our church group came into our lives, and only then did all 3 of us (myself first) give thought to plural marriage. It's a really uncomfortable position to be in - when you know you love both ladies, and the people (church friends, family) you care about are telling you what a bad person you are for even having these thoughts. It's takes a strong man to lead in love at that point, and not be dissuaded, or mess it up (beyond repair) somehow, and take both ladies by the hand and heart and work it through. Not every man with an interest in PM is up to it - I believe that in my heart after 13 years of watching others attempt it. Some men who might be capable of the expanded love (which rules out a lot right there) in an accepting society, will still blanch and fail when attempting plural marriage in our current culture - for a whole variety of reasons. I say this mainly because you said: "I tried to talk with her about polygamy and was so nervous about it, that she thought that I didn't want to really live it". And what leapt out in my mind was: "Where was he??", to help avoid that miscommunication? I remember those first conversations with all 3 of us: I did not know what to say or how to act, but I quickly realized I had to LEAD in a way I never had before (stop being a modern guy "putz") if there was going to be ANY chance for this to succeed. And I nearly blew it anyway. Don't get me wrong - though I realized more and changed more than I ever had in those few months, it's only by the grace of God that we are still together - but "manning up" was the only way to give His grace a chance to work. "Manning up" means learning to communicate better than you ever have. It means not focusing on yourself. It means not apologizing for being the man God made you to be. It means a lot of other things too - but perhaps we can take that to a separate thread.

I am sorry Wifeone, that you guys missed what looked like a great opportunity. I don't know if there's any chance to salvage it. I don't know your husband so I can't say if he is up to it or not, and willing to pay the price (but he should ask himself those questions before pursuing again). But perhaps there's some others who need to hear the above uncomfortable message, which might save their own families some serious heartache. I think this message may well apply to more than one guy who's had a wife/girlfriend post on this forum, but have been nowhere to be seen themselves.

 

[DeeAnn]

That's exactly what I was thinking and you said it so well, Nathan.


Wifeone, I vote for your husband writing the first letter. Then you could feel free to follow up with your own.

Hoping to get to know you better,
DeeAnn

 

[Paul not the apostle]

Post of the Year award goes to Nathan.

 

[Doc]

I vote for the letter too, but only to express where your journey has brought you, and not try to pressure her to reconsider the previous relationship. I feel that you should let that develop (or not) on its own.

I would also encourage you in your letter to invite her here to the Biblical Families forums. Perhaps she can find something here that will ease some of that previous confusion.

Thank God for grace.

Blessings,

Doc Burkhart

 

[julieb]

I totally agree with you DeeAnn. I think the letter should come from the husband and then a follow up letter from Wifeone. I have to say that I didn't think of that until you said it. But it made so much sense to me! I say that because I bet I am similar to you, Wifeone, and like to "fix" things myself. I am the person who wants to get things resolved if I can see a way to do it. Along with Nathan's posting (nicely said honey) talking about whether your husband is truly ready to lead in a plural marraige, it just makes sense, to me at least, that he should take the responsibility to "fix" the mess up that happened earlier. This will give him a chance to show you and the other lady that he can be a good leader of his family. For me, this would give a sense of protection from any negative feelings the other lady might have and/or a sense of trustworthiness towards my husband. I hope I explained that okay.

In the end the lady might want nothing to do with it anymore but at least she is recieving some closure from your husband and you.

My prayers are with you.

Hope for the future,
Julieb

 

[DaPastor]

Hi,

I guess I am the only one that voted "no way". This is a change from the way I first began to think about this.. In fact, Lissa and I talked about her post before she posted - which I still agree with in all but one part. Lissa was approaching it from a total relationship perspective, which she has the ability to see so clearly. However, after thinking about if from a theological perspective, I thought I should share.

Sometimes roles get confused in the poly movement - even though it would seem that just the opposite is taking place - for polygyny actually helps "in theory" for people to understand that men and women have distinct Biblical roles. The reality is this: God desires men to do the courting - period! So, sometimes there needs to be a distinction between fixing all the relationships, and the husband fixing a courting relationship. In this case, I would suggest that the husband should take the iniative in healing this up.

To think this out more, from my perspective, if a man has a wife before he begins to court another wife, his first wife is there to be his helpmeet, but she IS NOT courting the next wife. Sure, it is helpful if the two wives get along, and there should be some relationship building time, but in the end, the head of the household makes the final decision. So, if the husband desires to pursue this relationship (provided that the woman is not courting anyone else), then it is up to the husband to take the iniative. There - I said it!

 

[Mark C]

...in the end, the head of the household makes the final decision. There can only be one bus driver. So, from my perspective, if the husband desires to pursue this relationship (provided that the woman is not courting anyone else), then it is up to the husband to take the initiative...

Gee, I hope this doesn't come across as "triangulating"!

I agree with Randy, to a point. (Admittedly, lately I've been a bit "gun shy" on these topics, given the level of attack in my own house. Perhaps that perspective will be helpful here, however.)

There IS only one bus driver. (Personally, I'd say Pilot in Command )

But I not only give the helpmeet great credit for wanting to help resolve the situation, but note that such a husband should appreciate what he has in her.

What happens should be with the husband's knowledge and approval, and under his direction and covering at every step of the way.

But I don't have enough information to suggest that he must also take "the initiative". He must simply and ultimately be RESPONSIBLE for his house -- and he knows the situation better than any of us. If it is his prayerful judgment that the wife's letter (which he has read and approved!) is the right way to initiate the situation - so be it. Likewise if he decides to write it himself, add an addendum, or whatever.

Since he is ultimately the one that God holds responsible for the "vows" made under his covering, and the mistakes, my advice boils down to 'give him the information and the cooperation, and let him proceed.'

The wife (and potential helpmeet) both know a bit about what went wrong. Let him decide how best to resolve those issues, for the benefit of his house -- in whatever way God's will develops.

 

[CecilW]

Aaaaah. I think I got it. DaPastor's No vote is actually a Yes vote that the letter should be sent, but s sideways slip on who should send it. Right?

And, btw, DaPastor, as I understand it, Ms. Ruth went and cuddled up to Mr. Boaz' feet, not vice versa. So it would seem that a woman may have the right to take some initiative as well, wouldn't you say?

 

[wifeone]

Thank You so much for all of the responses! This is giving me great insight into things that I have not thought about.

As far as getting permission from my hubby...I kind of have indirect permission. I've asked him many times in the past if he would mind if I talked to the potential 2nd again. He didn't mind at all, and he encouraged it. He even mentioned at times that he thinks that it might not be his place to try to speak to her again, and that that door might only open through me communicating with her. He gave an analogy that it can be something similar to way that other Christians win other people over to the Lord. You know....we (the church) is the bride of Christ, and we get others to join us. So I kind of know that he would not mind...but not too sure how the whole thing will make him feel. I just don't want him to be anxious and worried about the whole thing. So I wanted to write the letter, and then tell him after the fact. I don't want him to get his hopes all up, if the news comes back negative. If I tell him any negative news after the fact, then it will not have been a long emotional roller coaster for him. He did call her months ago, and left a message asking her to call him back. She never responded. I figured that she is afraid. She doesn't even know that, I know he called. So she could have been worried about him doing something behind my back....it's just more symptoms of not being on the same page.

I guess I was more worried about it being a completely absurd idea from the view point of the potential 2nd. The ONLY problem I REALLY have, is that she has a boyfriend right now. Am I being totally rude and selfish? If she was single, I would have already written this letter! I wouldn't even be on here asking for advice. I feel like I am really actually asking her to break up with her boyfriend....I'm destroying another relationship. But, I'm not going to pressure her or ask her to do that. I'm just going to clear up the confusion that had existed and let her come to her own conclusions. I think to myself....these are the tough times in our life when things arise, and choices need to be made. I'm giving her a choice. And I feel bad if it turns her world upside down.

Then another question arises....should I wait to see if she ever breaks up with the guy.....then act?
But if I wait....what if she goes on to marry him, when it wasn't originally the best plan that God laid out for her life?

Thanks for taking the time to hear me out,
Wifeone

 

[DaPastor]

Aaaaah. I think I got it. DaPastor's No vote is actually a Yes vote that the letter should be sent, but s sideways slip on who should send it. Right?

And, btw, DaPastor, as I understand it, Ms. Ruth went and cuddled up to Mr. Boaz' feet, not vice versa. So it would seem that a woman may have the right to take some initiative as well, wouldn't you say?

Very good point Cecil. I suppose one could look at it from a few angles.

1. Are men to absolutely take the initiative in any relationship that may move toward marriage? I do not know if I could find a Scripture to support that angle. I would say that Ruth was single, thereby, being without headship, per se. She also seemed rather desparate. These two things may have drove her to take initiative in this particular case.

2. If a woman is under the authority of her husband, should she initiate future marital relationships on behalf of her husband? Scripture doesn't seem to address this at all! I must say that, if nothing else, a wife should aim not to do things that may undermine his authority in the home. So, if a wife doesn't know what the husband truly desires in any given situation, and she takes initiative outside of his will, she is obviously in error. On the other hand, if a man is always relying on his wife to take the lead, I for one, would question if he is ready to have more than one wife. From my perspective, being a leader is more than a title, it is leading! Leading involves taking initiative. This, I believe, is one area where Adam dropped the ball - Adam allowed Eve to take the initiative! Anyway, I don't think we have discussed this much on BF. Perhaps we should make this it's own thread. Blessings!

 

[Paul not the apostle]

It seems as though Ruth was not acting out of desperation when we consider that she had been allowed to glean during the barley AND wheat harvest (Rth 2:23)with special allowance that gave an abundance to her daily yield. The first day alone, with Boaz’ instruction to his men to leave handfuls for her (Rth 2:15-17), she left the field with over 5 gallons of barley, which is around 40 pounds of grain. To give you an idea of the amount in applied terms, DeeAnn says that our family of 7 would use that 40 pounds of grain up in 3 months. That is a lot of grain, more than enough for herself and Naomi, and more to sell for profit. Doing this each day would give them quite a financial boost. It seems like it was Naomi that was more insistent in that she sent Ruth to Boaz ( Rth 3:1-4).

Ruth was only being obedient, not desperate (Rth 3:5)

It seems however, that Naomi’s aged wisdom could see that Boaz had shown interest in Ruth. She saw the amount that Ruth had harvested the first day and said, “Where did you get all that? Blessed be that man who allowed you to take so much, and with him knowing!” paraphrased 2:19

Then Ruth says, “Yeah, and he told me to come back for the entire harvest.” paraphrased 2:20

At that moment, I would suggest that Naomi knew everything that was going to happen, and was wise in the ways of men. Of course, that did not stop her from waiting until the harvest was over, making sure that she and Ruth got the full benefit of Boaz’ generosity. And she knew not to bother a man while he was working during the harvest. Above rubies, anyone?

And of course, Ruth goes to the threshing floor, and leaves with MORE barley, so much that Naomi lets her know to stay put because Boaz will “not be in rest, until he has finished the thing this day.” Naomi KNEW what was going to happen. She might have even felt responsible for her two daughters-in-law because she did say to them, “are there yet any more sons in my womb, that they may be your husbands?”

Great story once again. To apply this to the original question...

I would suggest that the boyfriend issue is the most important one. What does "boyfriend" mean? Engaged? Dating? Engaged means betrothed and I would stay away. Does everyone know that they are an item? I would also suggest that, since we are talking about what scripture does not explicitly state, there is nothing in scripture that says there is an original plan for anyone’s life regarding marriage, or a backup plan that God has if you miss His first and better or original plan for marriage for your life. He does work all things together for good for those that love Him. I would also NOT write a letter if it were me. I would not want to find that block and copied to the local newsletter by the mother in law, or some other crazy that could get thier hands on it. A simple phone call might be more of a safeguard for you and your husband and family.

 

[sweetlissa]

As for women initiating the courting of the second wife, think about Sarai and Hagar.

SweetLissa

 

[DaPastor]

As for women initiating the courting of the second wife, think about Sarai and Hagar.

SweetLissa

Very interesting point Lissa. Of course, Abraham didn't have to agree!

 

[DeeAnn]

Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

2And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

9And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.


Yes, Sarai took initiave, but not to court Hagar. Sarai had authority over Hagar so she didn't have to talk her into it per se.

 

[sweetlissa]

Well, I was trying to be "politically correct" by saying court. I didn't have a bible nearby to look up the actual reference. Thanks DeeAnn for coming to my rescue. Yes Abram could have said NO. But the idea and the push came from Sarai.

SweetLissa

 

[DaPastor]

I suppose then, we should ask some more questions, was Sarai usurping authority or was Abraham laying his down? I think they both stepped out of their positions in this case. This is not to say that I think that Abraham sinned by marrying Hagar. For this was not a sin, in and of itself. Abraham's sin was his lack of trust in the Lord for His plan. If Abraham would have trusted the Lord for His promise, Abraham could have still married Hagar later. The results would have been quite different in my thinking.

 

[Mark C]

Don't forget that both Leah and Rachel also 'gave' their handmaids (half-sisters, probably) to their husband Jacob as well.