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Thoughts on men's authority over women

bluearrow89

bluearrow89

Member
Male
While reading the various posts on this forum, I have seen a few instances where a married woman will ask a question or for advice and she sometimes receives some flack or condescending comments from some of the men. This seems to be stemming from the belief that she should not be asking questions of other members on the forum if she is married, and that she should reserve these questions for her husband. While I believe it is fine to advise a woman to seek her husband's leadership on a matter, I think we would do well to remember that unless us men are her husband or father, she is our equal and is as free to ask questions as any other man or woman on here without feeling like she will be talked down to simply because she is a married woman. Thoughts?
 
Good question. It comes up from time to time.

This is my perspective: General questions (what's a good restaurant? How do you homeschool your kids, etc.) are great questions to ask of the general population. The deeper it gets into the home and regarding spiritual matters, the less we men who are not her husband should intervene. I think the godly ladies of this forum can easily handle this without blurring the lines of the hierarchical structure within her home. When it comes to disputes and disagreements that get heated, we men have an obligation to consult her husband, not continue to argue with her. In real life, I would take great offense to someone trying to school my wife without my knowledge or permission. I would prefer he come to me personally. That's not to give women ammunition to play the victim card, it's more in line with scripture where women are told to ask questions of their husbands rather than in the assembly.

That's my simple answer.
 
What @Mojo said.

In addition, it’s a sticky wicket when women are asking questions that could possibly run counter to her husband’s authority.
I would say that we are not at all legalistic about answering women’s questions and have a tendency to step across the line on occasion, if anything.
 
But is it our job to decide whether or not the women are overstepping her husband's authority or not? To me, when another man is questioning a woman's motives for asking a general question, he is assuming he has the authority to hold her accountable. I mean, if you saw a woman in a public place talking back to her husband, are you going to correct her or question her motives? If she is out of line isn't it only for her husband to question her motives? However, I am not talking about women who are obviously bashing her husband on the forum but asking an honest question.
 
Can you link to an example of what you're talking about? Many a conversation about the tone of the forum has been had, and it's much easier if everyone is understanding the actual problem, rather than making assumptions and guessing.
 
FollowingHim2 said:
Can you link to an example of what you're talking about? Many a conversation about the tone of the forum has been had, and it's much easier if everyone is understanding the actual problem, rather than making assumptions and guessing.
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Yes, absent specifics, we can only talk in generalities. If you'd like to report something yo a moderator, please do.
 
I’m not trying to point fingers or make enemies, I’m just trying to get everyone’s thoughts on this topic. I’m not trying to tell people what they should or shouldn’t say, and I’m definitely not promoting the idea of “going easy on women” in the main forum section. I am simply suggesting that if a woman is asking for opinions, and not clearly seeking reasons to undermine her husband’s authority, we shouldn’t avoid giving our opinion just because she’s a woman. If a woman wants to reject her husband’s authority, she will do so regardless of people’s statements here; and if she is seeking to follow her husband, she is likely asking others thoughts in order to better submit. Just trying to get a discussion started and hear others thoughts, especially since FollowingHim’s polls on whether or not women felt free to post in the main section generated so much feedback.
 
Why are you dredging up old controversies? Excepting some specific cases already dealt with, I don't see the problem.

It has nothing to do with condescension. It is instead being consistent with our theology that the husband is her spiritual guru, not us, and he is the appropriate one to seek guidance about spiritual issues from. We're not her ultimate teacher, he is. If you read close you'll notice that we still give our opinion, but in answering we're often careful to not overstep his authority; for instance couching our reply in reminders to talk to her actual authority. And for good reason, many women will look to a book, friend, internet forum, or pastor before they'd think of asking their hubby and following his lead.

bluearrow89 said:
questioning a woman's motives for asking a general question
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Do you not realize that sometimes the real question being asked isn't the one actually stated? That the heart of the matter is often an entirely different issue than the subject at hand?

bluearrow89 said:
she is our equal
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The scriptures do not treat men and women equally.
 
As you say @bluearrow89, we have already discussed this in general terms. If following those discussions you think there is still an issue, you do need to show us some specific examples, or we simply don't know what you're talking about.
 
rockfox said:
Why are you dredging up old controversies? Excepting some specific cases already dealt with, I don't see the problem.

It has nothing to do with condescension. It is instead being consistent with our theology that the husband is her spiritual guru, not us, and he is the appropriate one to seek guidance about spiritual issues from. We're not her ultimate teacher, he is. If you read close you'll notice that we still give our opinion, but in answering we're often careful to not overstep his authority; for instance couching our reply in reminders to talk to her actual authority. And for good reason, many women will look to a book, friend, internet forum, or pastor before they'd think of asking their hubby and following his lead.



Do you not realize that sometimes the real question being asked isn't the one actually stated? That the heart of the matter is often an entirely different issue than the subject at hand?



The scriptures do not treat men and women equally.
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I dont see any scripture where a man who isnt a father or husband has authority over a woman. Where do you see this? Also, I completely understand that we as non-authoritative men should practice caution when it comes down to a woman asking questions, but is it out job to discern her motives? Wouldnt that be between her, her husband, and God? I am not saying that we should in any way encourage her to go against her husband. I am trying to understand this as it is the first place I have come across that is so cautious on this matter. Thank you for your reply
 
bluearrow89 said:
I dont see any scripture where a man who isnt a father or husband has authority over a woman. Where do you see this? Also, I completely understand that we as non-authoritative men should practice caution when it comes down to a woman asking questions, but is it out job to discern her motives? Wouldnt that be between her, her husband, and God? I am not saying that we should in any way encourage her to go against her husband. I am trying to understand this as it is the first place I have come across that is so cautious on this matter. Thank you for your reply
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I think, as others have stated, it would be helpful if you could give examples of what you find concerning.
 
Keith Martin said:
@P Hartman, I like your questions, and I like all the answers so far.

I'm hoping that your second question isn't an actual disclosure about something your husband is doing that is bothering you. If so, he should probably be the one to be asking all the rest of us the question,"
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This is the kind of thing I am talking about. Why do we feel like we have the authority to make sure she is falling in line with her husband's authority? I feel like when we do this we are assuming we have authority to scold or correct her.
 
In that statement, @Keith Martin is not asserting any form of authority over this woman. Rather, he is gently pointing out that some things are better discussed with the husband directly rather than behind his back (if that is the case, which he does not assume but just recognises is a possibility). On multiple occasions we have had someone share personal information here without the knowledge of their spouse (or sisterwife), the sharing of which actually inflamed tensions when their spouse (or sisterwife, in other instances) found out. As our intent is to heal tensions not inflame them, past experience has shown that this is a prudent thing to remind people of. It is not a "scolding".
 
If anyone is being a bit too judgmental, I would suggest that it could possibly be yourself, @bluearrow89.
 
bluearrow89 said:
I am really sorry you feel that way as it was not my intent to judge anyone.
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Communication is a tricky thing. There is a postcard around here that kinda summed it up...it said

"No wonder we don't communicate! "

Then it had this quote.

"“I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” – Robert McCloskey, author

I was years into marriage before I realized that me trying to be helpful asking hubby "Why dont you ________" was telling him "You aren't doing that right"

*Shrugs* gotta just learn how to get the intended message across.....that takes paying attention to the impact of our words and actions. Not my strong suite.
 
FollowingHim said:
In that statement, @Keith Martin is not asserting any form of authority over this woman. Rather, he is gently pointing out that some things are better discussed with the husband directly rather than behind his back (if that is the case, which he does not assume but just recognises is a possibility). On multiple occasions we have had someone share personal information here without the knowledge of their spouse (or sisterwife), the sharing of which actually inflamed tensions when their spouse (or sisterwife, in other instances) found out. As our intent is to heal tensions not inflame them, past experience has shown that this is a prudent thing to remind people of. It is not a "scolding".
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I understand caution when giving advice. I was simply wanting to have a discussion on the topic as I stated before. Wasn't intending to name names or stir anything up. I have spoken with at least three women on poly dating websites and family members who are anti-poly over the past few years and they claimed that this site was mainly a bunch of men who have little to no respect for women. I was intending for there to be a constructive discussion on the authority men have to instruct or correct women who dont belong to them.
 
bluearrow89 said:
I think we would do well to remember that unless us men are her husband or father, she is our equal....
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In salvation, yes.
Otherwise, no. That’s not the way that this works.

This is you judging anyone coming from a male headship perspective.
The authority over her is her husband. The authority over her husband, in any fellowship, are the elders. Outside of a fellowship with recognized elders, Yeshua is the authority over the husband.
In an anomaly like this forum, the moderators have authority, but we try to have respect for both women AND their husbands.
All too many polygenists disagree with patriarchy, so of course they judge us harshly. There is no fixing that if they won’t learn.
 
bluearrow89 said:
I mean, if you saw a woman in a public place talking back to her husband, are you going to correct her or question her motives?
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Apples and oranges.
In this scenario nobody is trying to draw you in to support their argument.
#walkonby
 
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