The Husband’s Call to Love Is A Call to Rule

[Phillip]

She has no choice but to sin in some way. 1. Obey him and commit the sin.
2. Disobedience and continue to live with him without submitting in that particular area. 3. Separate from his covering

She has no choice to sin in some way? If the husband is telling the wife to commit a sin, and she knows it’s a sin, would she be better off obeying the commandment set forth in the Word (therefore obeying God) or obeying an unlawful (sinful) order? Does the husband have the right to, through the submission ordinance, tell/have/force his wife to commit a sin?

I would suggest, in the clear, evidenced by scripture, duty and call to not sin, it would be better for the woman to take her grievance up to the next court. We have judicial system in place for the same reason. In this case she should take her case to the next level. I do believe God trumps the husband. Or do we know what’s a sin, it’s pretty clear in scripture. But as throughout history, many still cherry pick the scriptures today.

I have heard repeatedly how a husband must train/educate his wife. I wish those who continually say this would do a better job of this. My gosh, how long does it take? I’m in the advise stage and discussions stage with my wife. I would suggest stop talking about it and getter done. I can attest, it is much easier to have a wife that already knows.

 

[rockfox]

take her grievance up to the next court

What court would that be?

I have heard repeatedly how a husband must train/educate his wife. I wish those who continually say this would do a better job of this.

What makes you think such persons need to do a better job?

My gosh, how long does it take?

With a rebellious wife? It could literally take years.

 

[Phillip]

What court would that be?


What makes you think such persons need to do a better job?



With a rebellious wife? It could literally take years.

What court would that be? Think metaphor, you’ll get it.

What makes me think a person needs to do a better job? What is foremost on one’s mind is what is generally discussed. Is there another reason someone would discuss the same thing over and over?

I had a rebellious wife. We were divorced in 2005. It’s very much like getting into rehabbing houses. The equity is in how you buy, not how you rehab and sell. The same is in a wife, it is in how you choose the wife, it cuts down on many issues.

 

[Pacman]

She has no choice but to sin in some way. 1. Obey him and commit the sin.
2. Disobedience and continue to live with him without submitting in that particular area.
3. Separate from his covering.

None of those choices are good ones but he is putting her in a position where she is forced to make it... this is actually a side issue to what I was trying to say but that’s a brief synopsis of how I view it...

She has no choice to sin in some way? If the husband is telling the wife to commit a sin, and she knows it’s a sin, would she be better off obeying the commandment set forth in the Word (therefore obeying God) or obeying an unlawful (sinful) order?

What you are describing is option 2 in my list...

Does the husband have the right to, through the submission ordinance, tell/have/force his wife to commit a sin?

That’s a great question... honestly I can’t find any scripture that says otherwise. But I do find “husband is master of his women” (I’m paraphrasing) Genesis 20:3 she is to obey even an unreasonable command. 1Peter 2:18 - 3:6

I would suggest, in the clear, evidenced by scripture, duty and call to not sin, it would be better for the woman to take her grievance up to the next court.

I’m totally fine with this it’s just I don’t find this idea laid out in scripture. Not even a hint of it... so if you have something please share.

I do believe God trumps the husband.

Numbers 30 seems to indicate that he voluntarily steps aside so as not to “trump the husband”

Or do we know what’s a sin, it’s pretty clear in scripture. But as throughout history, many still cherry pick the scriptures today.

Ding ding ding we do know what sin is 1 John 3:4 answers that question... so let’s stop cherry picking...

I have heard repeatedly how a husband must train/educate his wife. I wish those who continually say this would do a better job of this. My gosh, how long does it take?

Are you assuming that I don’t? @Mrs. Pacman can likely answer that question...

I’m in the advise stage and discussions stage with my wife. I would suggest stop talking about it and getter done. I can attest, it is much easier to have a wife that already knows.

Good on you! But not everyone has a woman who already knows... and I agree stop talking about it and start actually doing it. Most men simply need to grow a spine and stand up to that rebellious feminist that is currently ruling their household!


@Phillip if this comes across harshly I apologize and please don’t take it personally. I have a ton of respect for you and I look forward to our next phone conversation. This truly is a topic that needs to be addressed strongly because there is almost exclusively false teaching out there concerning it... we have to remove our emotions from the issue and truly apply the scriptures. His ways are better than ours no matter how difficult we find them to be.

 

[Phillip]

@Phillip if this comes across harshly I apologize and please don’t take it personally. I have a ton of respect for you and I look forward to our next phone conversation.

Heck NO! I enjoy our phone calls, and you didn’t come across as harsh. I’ve listened to you as we’ve talked and, like me and most others here, we just want the truth. Not man’s rewriting of the word the way the Pharisees and Sadducees did. And many since.

 

[The Revolting Man]

She has no choice to sin in some way? If the husband is telling the wife to commit a sin, and she knows it’s a sin, would she be better off obeying the commandment set forth in the Word (therefore obeying God) or obeying an unlawful (sinful) order? Does the husband have the right to, through the submission ordinance, tell/have/force his wife to commit a sin?

I would suggest, in the clear, evidenced by scripture, duty and call to not sin, it would be better for the woman to take her grievance up to the next court. We have judicial system in place for the same reason. In this case she should take her case to the next level. I do believe God trumps the husband. Or do we know what’s a sin, it’s pretty clear in scripture. But as throughout history, many still cherry pick the scriptures today.

I have heard repeatedly how a husband must train/educate his wife. I wish those who continually say this would do a better job of this. My gosh, how long does it take? I’m in the advise stage and discussions stage with my wife. I would suggest stop talking about it and getter done. I can attest, it is much easier to have a wife that already knows.

I know how passionate you are about these issues and I know that explains the emotional response but I think there are some things you're overlooking.

I don't think anyone has acted like this was an easy situation. Hard cases make for bad law and this is one of the hardest of cases. It is an aberration. One that requires a dedicated, consistent and prayerful response. This is an individual case that has to be approached individually. This is when the Holy Spirit comes in to play and we can't solve this from a keyboard.

You're call to a higher court is a worrying one for many men here who have been dragged through the family court crusher. Christians aren't allowed to take each other to court to begin with ane as marriage is God's Law it can't be ruled on by earthly courts anyway. If you are referring to kicking it up to God's court well then that's what we're all discussing anyway.

 

[Mrs. Pacman]

Are you assuming that I don’t? @Mrs. Pacman can likely answer that question...

I assure you he's done a good job of training me, I wouldn't be the wife, mother or friend that I am without his help.

 

[Phillip]

If you are referring to kicking it up to God's court well then that's what we're all discussing anyway.

Exactly what I was referring to.

 

[rockfox]

This truly is a topic that needs to be addressed strongly because there is almost exclusively false teaching out there concerning it... we have to remove our emotions from the issue and truly apply the scriptures. His ways are better than ours no matter how difficult we find them to be.

Not only is the teaching on this all bad, but the lack of the proper dynamic here is what causes a lot of the problems for marriages when the idea of poly comes up.

 

[Julia Mykaele]

Just remembering that Moses puts the woman as the property of the husband
Deuteronomy 5:21..

____

Guys, how do I change my name?


Julia

 

[Isaac]

Guys, how do I change my name?

An Admin/Moderator has to do it. Contact @FollowingHim.

 

[FollowingHim]

@Jul, I've sent you a private "conversation", you'll find it in your inbox, top right of the page.

 

[Gary Slaughenhaupt]

https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2018/10/10/the-husbands-call-to-love-is-a-call-to-rule/

Curious if anyone else follows this blog? He is pro polygyny.
What are thoughts on this article. My opinion is that it's pretty much spot on.

I like his site and got my son and his friends reading up there. They have posted his memes to their social media accounts. With this particular article he change the title from "call to lead" to "call to rule" after a comment from me pointing back to Genesis. I don't agree with his stance on porn though.

 

[Gary Slaughenhaupt]

I was literally laughing out loud reading this thread since I as "old fashioned man" left the comment "The call is not to lead but to rule. Being a ruler goes beyond mere leadership." He chose to revise the article saying: "
old-fashioned-man,

Your point was well taken and I agree so I modified the title and article content for this situation. I have addressed elsewhere on this blog that their are different kinds of leaders, those with authority to set rules and the power to discipline those under them for breaking those rules and those leaders who have no authority but people voluntarily follow their guidance.

I have updated this with a section on the difference. As I said here in the updated version – all rulers are leaders, but all leaders not necessarily rulers. The Bible makes the husband the ruler/master/owner of the wife."

I feel like the butterfly that caused a tornado. Oh the ripple effects of one short comment.

 

[rockfox]

I was literally laughing out loud reading this thread since I as "old fashioned man" left the comment "The call is not to lead but to rule. Being a ruler goes beyond mere leadership." He chose to revise the article saying: "
old-fashioned-man,

Your point was well taken and I agree so I modified the title and article content for this situation. I have addressed elsewhere on this blog that their are different kinds of leaders, those with authority to set rules and the power to discipline those under them for breaking those rules and those leaders who have no authority but people voluntarily follow their guidance.

I have updated this with a section on the difference. As I said here in the updated version – all rulers are leaders, but all leaders not necessarily rulers. The Bible makes the husband the ruler/master/owner of the wife."

I feel like the butterfly that caused a tornado. Oh the ripple effects of one short comment.

Thank you for your insight.

 

[tps26]

Proverbs 2:17 is interesting in that it describes what makes an adulteress destroy her house.

"So you will be delivered from the forbidden woman, from the adulteress with her smooth words, who forsakes the [chief, ruler, captain, mentor, guide, companion, husband] of her youth and forgets the covenant of her elohim; for her house sinks down to death, and her paths to the departed"
Proverbs 2:16‭-‬18

I expanded Strong's 441, al·lūp̄, to display the synonyms in play here.

When you think about a younger woman married to an older man, the aspect of a ruler/mentor is much easier to grasp. I think when men marry women who are their same age or older it creates a very elemental barrier to her instruction by him and her acceptance of his word. Not impossible to overcome, but something to consider when choosing a woman.

What also struck me was the use of elohim. This is usually translated as "God" in this verse, but in the context of an adulteress breaking her covenant, and the parralelism with the al·lūp̄ of her youth, it makes sense that it would be a lowercase "e" elohim, for her lord. I could see it make sense either way.

Are there other examples of a man being the elohim of his woman that anyone is aware of?

 

[tps26]

Another interesting verse that is most literally translated in the Geneva Bible is Romans 7:2:

For the woman which is in subjection to a man, is bound by the Law to the man, while he liveth: but if the man be dead, she is delivered from the law of the man.
Romans 7:2 GNV

To a woman, marriage is literally, "the law of the man"

Also, hupandros, which in most translations gets rendered married in this verse, is a compound of hupo and andros, literally under-man.

 

[Pacman]

When you think about a younger woman married to an older man, the aspect of a ruler/mentor is much easier to grasp. I think when men marry women who are their same age or older it creates a very elemental barrier to her instruction by him and her acceptance of his word. Not impossible to overcome, but something to consider when choosing a woman.

This can absolutely be overcome. I say this from experience... I agree it's preferable for the man to have an age advantage but definitely not an absolute necessity.

 

[rockfox]

Another interesting verse that is most literally translated in the Geneva Bible is Romans 7:2:

For the woman which is in subjection to a man, is bound by the Law to the man, while he liveth: but if the man be dead, she is delivered from the law of the man.
Romans 7:2 GNV

To a woman, marriage is literally, "the law of the man"

Also, hupandros, which in most translations gets rendered married in this verse, is a compound of hupo and andros, literally under-man.

Great insight!

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

Proverbs 2:17 is interesting in that it describes what makes an adulteress destroy her house.

"So you will be delivered from the forbidden woman, from the adulteress with her smooth words, who forsakes the [chief, ruler, captain, mentor, guide, companion, husband] of her youth and forgets the covenant of her elohim; for her house sinks down to death, and her paths to the departed"
Proverbs 2:16‭-‬18

I expanded Strong's 441, al·lūp̄, to display the synonyms in play here.

When you think about a younger woman married to an older man, the aspect of a ruler/mentor is much easier to grasp. I think when men marry women who are their same age or older it creates a very elemental barrier to her instruction by him and her acceptance of his word. Not impossible to overcome, but something to consider when choosing a woman.

What also struck me was the use of elohim. This is usually translated as "God" in this verse, but in the context of an adulteress breaking her covenant, and the parralelism with the al·lūp̄ of her youth, it makes sense that it would be a lowercase "e" elohim, for her lord. I could see it make sense either way.

Are there other examples of a man being the elohim of his woman that anyone is aware of?

Not many people know that Jacob was 91 when Joseph was born, or that Abraham was 140 years old, when he married Keturah, and she bore him six children. We all know he was 10 years older than Sarah, but either Keturah was at least 60 years younger, which would put her at around 80, or an even greater miracle occurred when she gave birth. I would suggest he was probably 120 years older than she.