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The flaw of independence?
- Thread starter LDremoved
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Thank you! It's definitely something i'm putting more thought into the older I get. I think some of my fears have been cleared up thanks to so many wonderful answers though. I may have been focusing too heavily on my perceived negative assumptions of marriage.
Lol i'm beginning to think that submitting to a man may be a relief at this point. Dog marriage is difficult.
I think there have been some very wonderful responses so far and I'm glad you brought this up ... I agree ... don't delete it.
I'm also a single woman and enjoy my own company. I've definitely had all sorts of thoughts about the more practical side of things as far as "what would my life be like if I joined a family" ... too noisy?!?! Probably. I'm not even sure I could handle it anymore ... too used to my own company (and my dogs!). I'm in my own little world, doing my own thing, on my own time. BUT, that's not always a good thing. I believe women MUST be covered in some way. I have a male friend that I consider my "acting head" [not sure what I should call it, but that seems to get the point across]. As single women, I believe we are especially vulnerable to idealistic thoughts and can FORCE or MAKE things happen. As level-headed as I like to think I am, sometimes I have some pretty dumb ideas. My "acting head" helps bring me back down to earth and I'm really not sure where I'd be today without him in my life.
I DO have struggles at times with desiring to be a part of a family and see how polygyny can be such a blessing if done right, however I believe it's important to just BE in the here and now. If Yah wants something to change, he will make it clear. So, I guess that's my advice to you, for what it's worth. BE in the here and now, serving the Father to the best of your ability right where you are - and - have an 'acting head' that you can lean on for guidance (an adult son? a brother? your dad? a brother here on the forum??).
Lol thank you, there really has been some wonderful responses and I appreciate it more than ya'll know, thanks everyoneI think there have been some very wonderful responses so far and I'm glad you brought this up ... I agree ... don't delete it.
Oh my goodness, that's something I can relate to so much. I just love my house being calm, relaxed and peaceful. I love being able to come home to my dogs and bunny and just relax. I love my family so much but they're so dang loud lol
Goodness isn't that the truth! Sometimes if we go unchecked for too long we don't realize just how dumb our own thoughts can become. For instance like starting a dog ranch in the middle of the desert
I have to plead ignorance on the male "covering" subject. I don't really know what it is and why it's necessary? I'm completely open to it, just ignorant. I appreciate the suggestion! However I don't know who i'd ask if I did decide it was a good idea. No one in my family is very religious and they already think i'm weird for wearing a partial veil and praying every day, wouldn't feel very comfortable asking them.
I sure hope so, I think at times i've felt that change and desire become stronger however I fall right back into my everyday routine and become comfortable again.
I think I found the solution to both of our problems. Lets be Sisterwives- maybe our Knight and shining armor will come riding in on a large dog Rescue bus and whisk us off to the desert where we can spend our days thanking God for our dog ranch
Yeah, but they'll lick your face even when no one is around to help you change your diaper.
You've gotten responses on this from a number of directions, but I think it falls into the category of what you don't want to hear, @LovesDogs. Women need covering because women are just constitutionally incapable of covering themselves.
If you think I'm mistaken, please point me to the culture or society or country where women don't have to rely on men to provide protection, provision and due benevolence. Individual women like to imagine that they're independent, but they can only do so because men in their life politely refrain from pointing out that the vast majority of what they use to sustain their existence is provided by men.
Women may 'man' the phones in the 9-1-1 system, but no one prays that women will show up to deal with emergencies.
Don't have any problem imagining fulfillment of your Big Wish, but the odds are that he whom Yah sends will have a long furry tail . . .I think I found the solution to both of our problems. Lets be Sisterwives- maybe our Knight and shining armor will come riding in on a large dog Rescue bus and whisk us off to the desert where we can spend our days thanking God for our dog ranch
On this note, we have a catwoman / dogwoman neighbour. She is single and feels happy with her animals, she's a lovely woman. But she has health problems, and simply can't manage on her own. So I and my older children end up around there frequently doing jobs for her, and various other neighbours do also. There are an enormous amount of man-jobs that need to be done around her place, and only a fraction of them actually get done - the ones that are frustrating enough to prompt her to actually persuade someone to help with. She really needs a husband, and for more than just doing odd jobs - she needs a sensible head around to put some limits on her hobby: "no, you don't need that animal also, there's just not enough room", or even "because of <some serious reason> you simply need to get rid of half of the dogs".
It's perfectly fine to choose singleness. But we do exist best as teams. Alongside the fact that you are generous to others in all the ways you have outlined, it is probable that others are generous to you in other ways. Are there men who assist you with things occasionally, who would be relieved if you got a husband?
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If I were single, I would also enjoy my life. I would have immense freedom. With no responsibilities for a wife or children, I'd be free to be politically and religiously active. Maybe too active. I'd probably soon be in jail for Jesus (or possibly "be in jail for some stupid reason and think in my mind it was for Jesus"
).If not in jail I'd either be a homeless tramp, as I'd see no purpose in having property if I didn't have to provide for a family, or I'd live in a rough filthy hut on a piece of land where I could do whatever I pleased.
And I'd absolutely love that life of freedom, just as you love your dogs.
But I also love the life I have as a married man and a father of seven wonderful children. And it is more meaningful - I have a much longer future to look forward to and try to contribute towards (the lives of my children and eventual grandchildren, unless Christ returns soon).
The path that is right for you is the one God puts in front of you. And he put a wonderful wife in my path, so here I am. He may or may not put a husband in yours. Either way you can enjoy what He has in store for you.
I'm just unclear what a "covering" consists of. Is it basically advice, leadership etc? I did attempt to read up on it but still couldn't quite understand from the few verses I found.
That's why women need to carry guns lol
If I were single, I would also enjoy my life. I would have immense freedom. With no responsibilities for a wife or children, I'd be free to be politically and religiously active. Maybe too active. I'd probably soon be in jail for Jesus (or possibly "be in jail for some stupid reason and think in my mind it was for Jesus"
If not in jail I'd either be a homeless tramp, as I'd see no purpose in having property if I didn't have to provide for a family, or I'd live in a rough filthy hut on a piece of land where I could do whatever I pleased.
And I'd absolutely love that life of freedom, just as you love your dogs.
But I also love the life I have as a married man and a father of seven wonderful children. And it is more meaningful - I have a much longer future to look forward to and try to contribute towards (the lives of my children and eventual grandchildren, unless Christ returns soon).
The path that is right for you is the one God puts in front of you. And he put a wonderful wife in my path, so here I am. He may or may not put a husband in yours. Either way you can enjoy what He has in store for you.
If I were single, I would also enjoy my life. I would have immense freedom. With no responsibilities for a wife or children, I'd be free to be politically and religiously active. Maybe too active. I'd probably soon be in jail for Jesus (or possibly "be in jail for some stupid reason and think in my mind it was for Jesus"
that's hilarious, I kind of want to know more but i'm also afraid at the same time. I can definitely understand that, that's one of the things that draws me to marriage and a family as well. I just can't seem to make up my mind yet. How did you know that's what you wanted or did you just take the leap?
Thank you! Yes he did put a wonderful wife in your path as well, she's been so helpful.
We are the weaker vessel. We were literally not designed or created to live 'headless'. Covering IS advice and leadership, but I believe it's more than that. I am sure I will not be able to explain this in a way that does it justice, but I do live it out.
When we are left to ourselves, we are never fully able to understand what submission is, and also the headship order. I chose to put myself under the covering / leadership / headship of a man because I knew I could not fully grow as a believer if I were left to myself and headless. There's a sticky situation right there .... we are free to choose, so that means we are free to "pick and choose". We can put ourselves under the headship of a man that suits our personal beliefs and desires regardless of whether or not those line up with the Truth. We can also put ourselves under the headship of a godly man and then choose to come out from under his headship when we do not agree with him. That defeats the entire purpose. I know there is obvious right and wrong, and I'm sure we could come up with all sorts of what if scenarios where this could be a bad thing. I'm not talking about what ifs.
Well, again, this is very hard to explain so maybe a brother has a better / clearer way of saying it. I just know that a lot of the damage caused within fellowships / the Body of Yeshua can be traced back to headless women. These women may or may not be married ... I mean, just because they are married does not mean they have a head; they can choose to usurp their head. Whatever the case, these are dangerous women.
There is safety within the headship order, and there are many reasons why the Father has put it in place.
You can do your own research to find a comprehensive list, but I'll just start with Exodus 21:10, which says, "he shall not diminish her meat, her covering and her cohabitation." [CVOT] This is the dictate that lists what a man may not diminish with a 1st wife when taking another wife. 'Meat' stands for daily necessities such as food, clothing, housing; 'cohabitation' is also translated accurately as 'due benevolence' but additionally refers to general physical affection as well as sexual satisfaction; and 'covering' stands for everything else men do to protect and provide structure and organization for the life of any woman under one's charge. All three categories are realms of being women cannot provide for themselves. They can only pretend that they can provide them for themselves, but as Samuel has wisely said above, if any 'single' woman is honest with herself, she remains dependent on men even when single -- she just spreads out the dependence over a host of other men but does so in a way that maximizes its invisibility; the purpose of this, quite frankly, especially in the age of feminism, is to escape from the burden of gratitude.
I know you view yourself as generous, and it's certainly laudable that you feel obligated toward your parents and enjoy taking care of others and other dogs as well -- but what remains missing in this equation is tangible expression of gratitude for all those invisible men who prop up your supposedly-independent existence. As @Old Paths Gardener brilliantly described in her post above, this is one of the main purposes for submission. Submitting and being a helpmeet is a large portion of what each individual woman does to reciprocate with men in general in recognition of the degree to which women are dependent on men. If you ever grok this, you will recognize how generally selflessly giving most men are.
And perhaps they need to carry guns that have been invented, manufactured, assembled, sold and shipped by women . . .
I know this may sound harsh, but I recommend shifting your focus from the convenient nature of being critical of what individual men are or are not doing . . . over to focusing on the unbelievable breadth of male effort that has gone into not only into organizing the world in such a way that you can take it for granted but maintaining that world on a continuous basis. Unless you exists without electricity, running water, grocery stores, a car, so-called 'fossil' fuels, firearms, police protection, firefighting protection and a military, you are entirely dependent on men. Even your dogs are entirely dependent on men. You couldn't do a thing to protect those dogs if it weren't for men.
When Sarah turned up I knew I wanted to have her with her clothes off, that certainly helped make up my mind.
Honestly, I didn't consciously weigh up the pros and cons of singleness versus marriage. Sarah was there and I was simply going to marry her, it was just inevitable. I didn't really need to choose her so much as accept her - nor did she really choose me. Sure there are benefits to singleness as I fantasised above - but I am probably not cut out for celibacy, so marriage is the correct path God has ordained for me.
You can do your own research to find a comprehensive list, but I'll just start with Exodus 21:10, which says, "he shall not diminish her meat, her covering and her cohabitation." [CVOT] This is the dictate that lists what a man may not diminish with a 1st wife when taking another wife. 'Meat' stands for daily necessities such as food, clothing, housing; 'cohabitation' is also translated accurately as 'due benevolence' but additionally refers to general physical affection as well as sexual satisfaction; and 'covering' stands for everything else men do to protect and provide structure and organization for the life of any woman under one's charge. All three categories are realms of being women cannot provide for themselves. They can only pretend that they can provide them for themselves, but as Samuel has wisely said above, if any 'single' woman is honest with herself, she remains dependent on men even when single -- she just spreads out the dependence over a host of other men but does so in a way that maximizes its invisibility; the purpose of this, quite frankly, especially in the age of feminism, is to escape from the burden of gratitude.
I know you view yourself as generous, and it's certainly laudable that you feel obligated toward your parents and enjoy taking care of others and other dogs as well -- but what remains missing in this equation is tangible expression of gratitude for all those invisible men who prop up your supposedly-independent existence. As @Old Paths Gardener brilliantly described in her post above, this is one of the main purposes for submission. Submitting and being a helpmeet is a large portion of what each individual woman does to reciprocate with men in general in recognition of the degree to which women are dependent on men. If you ever grok this, you will recognize how generally selflessly giving most men are.
And perhaps they need to carry guns that have been invented, manufactured, assembled, sold and shipped by women . . .
I have a question before I start down this rabbit hole next lol weren't men cursed with hard labor just as women painful child birth? Men building the world is a given, they were both blessed and cursed with the ability to do so. I'm to be thankful that men are doing what they're designed to do or should I be thankful that i'm allowed to participate in such things that men created?You can do your own research to find a comprehensive list, but I'll just start with Exodus 21:10, which says, "he shall not diminish her meat, her covering and her cohabitation." [CVOT] This is the dictate that lists what a man may not diminish with a 1st wife when taking another wife. 'Meat' stands for daily necessities such as food, clothing, housing; 'cohabitation' is also translated accurately as 'due benevolence' but additionally refers to general physical affection as well as sexual satisfaction; and 'covering' stands for everything else men do to protect and provide structure and organization for the life of any woman under one's charge. All three categories are realms of being women cannot provide for themselves. They can only pretend that they can provide them for themselves, but as Samuel has wisely said above, if any 'single' woman is honest with herself, she remains dependent on men even when single -- she just spreads out the dependence over a host of other men but does so in a way that maximizes its invisibility; the purpose of this, quite frankly, especially in the age of feminism, is to escape from the burden of gratitude.
I know you view yourself as generous, and it's certainly laudable that you feel obligated toward your parents and enjoy taking care of others and other dogs as well -- but what remains missing in this equation is tangible expression of gratitude for all those invisible men who prop up your supposedly-independent existence. As @Old Paths Gardener brilliantly described in her post above, this is one of the main purposes for submission. Submitting and being a helpmeet is a large portion of what each individual woman does to reciprocate with men in general in recognition of the degree to which women are dependent on men. If you ever grok this, you will recognize how generally selflessly giving most men are.
And perhaps they need to carry guns that have been invented, manufactured, assembled, sold and shipped by women . . .
Child bearing not child birth. I know this is irrelevant to your discussion, but the bible says child bearing. That doesn't just include birth, it also means carrying a child, both of which are not easy. I always found the pregnancy much harder than the birth.
Since you're here lol do you think women should be praised for bearing children, should men be thankful? Or is it just part of your duty as a woman?
Well, yeah, of course! It's an awesome thing we do! And it's really hard work, harder for some than others. But in the same way we should praise our men for the things they do.
I guess I just assumed it was all part of what we were intended to do. Not that being thankful for it is a bad thing, i've been thankful for worse lol like Keith said I need to open my mind more I think.