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Some Einstein sh..tuff, science discussion

Outside universe. You are assuming all that exists is inside this universe.
In the beginning God created the "heavens" and the earth - and this is further clarified to show that it includes the sun, moon and stars, so it's not just talking about the atmosphere, but the entire universe. If He created the universe itself, He cannot just be a part of it, but must be greater and beyond it.
 
I would think that if they turned up and started talking like that, I'd pay attention and have some very careful thinking to do. But I think that's the least likely possibility for aliens turning up and talking about God.

On the other hand, if they turned up and said "we are God" - no, we're being scammed, they're demons.
Doesn't scripture say to "try the spirits" and if any say the Jesus the Messiah is NOT come in the flesh then those are the bad guys.
I have yet to encounter that unless you speak of my ex...
 
In the beginning God created the "heavens" and the earth - and this is further clarified to show that it includes the sun, moon and stars, so it's not just talking about the atmosphere, but the entire universe. If He created the universe itself, He cannot just be a part of it, but must be greater and beyond it.
I would think that a glimpse of the universe through the lens of Hubble Telescope is a little taste of eternity. Is God's eternity bigger than that? Probably. Inhabiting a planet with dozens of wives is theoretically doable ;-).
 
What is SR?
Special Relativity.
It's way more than you think.

Because he start with computing itself. There is special type of math enables creation of space and which behaves as per known laws of physics.

In another words, we starts with pure math (ones Turing machine is capable of doing) and deduces physical laws.

He doesn't observations and here is my theory fitting existing data.
I'll look into it. Any links you wish to share?

EDIT: Google is not very helpful with the search on the name Stephan Wolfman. Special Relativity, has major flaws as I Raymonf Fleming pointed out in his video. IT doesn't really matter if you can come up with some magical mathemativs to make it all work out, if it in fact does not mirror reality. Baumgardener uses computer models to "prove" CPT, but that does not mean anything. It may sound impressive, but it is just a model that he tweaked, and even then, he has an over-reliance on miracles to make it work.

Zero interest why carbon dating on Earth is wrong. What about carbon dating for whole universe?

We do have rocks from outside planet arriving on Earth after flood. Why they are wrongly dated?

This is problematic for HPT. Is starts with flood, rather than general laws.
Not if those rocks are from the Solar system. Read the chapters on Asteroids, Comets, Meteorites, and Trans Neptunian Objects. The evidence of the Global Flood is everywhere, even outside planet earth.
 
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Where does God abide forever if the universe is not eternal?
Scripture indicates in several places that the heavens will be destroyed. God will never be destroyed. God made the heavens. They had a beginning and they will have an end. God does not need to exist within the universe itself.
 
Doesn't scripture say to "try the spirits" and if any say the Jesus the Messiah is NOT come in the flesh then those are the bad guys.
I have yet to encounter that unless you speak of my ex...
Are you speaking of @OhMyStars?
 
I would think that a glimpse of the universe through the lens of Hubble Telescope is a little taste of eternity. Is God's eternity bigger than that? Probably. Inhabiting a planet with dozens of wives is theoretically doable ;-).
If those planets are not first destroyed. We will have a new heaven and a new earth.

EDIT: Also Jesus said that we won't have marriage in heaven. Now He didn't say that there won't be sex in heaven. That concept was based on the notion that we won't have wives, and so having relations with a woman who is not your wife, is thought to be sinful. However, I highly doubt God will remove our genitalia. Most pastors will tell you that what we will experience will be better than sex. Whatever that better than sex is, I will have to try it out with my wife and any other woman whom God sees fit to provide me with in eternity, if not here on earth.
 
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Special Relativity.

I'll look into it. Any links you wish to share?

This should be good intro:

EDIT: Google is not very helpful with the search on the name Stephan Wolfman. Special Relativity, has major flaws as I Raymonf Fleming pointed out in his video. IT doesn't really matter if you can come up with some magical mathemativs to make it all work out, if it in fact does not mirror reality. Baumgardener uses computer models to "prove" CPT, but that does not mean anything. It may sound impressive, but it is just a model that he tweaked, and even then, he has an over-reliance on miracles to make it work.
Here is math basis:


This implies that our universe obey some specific rules which we call natural laws. These rules are contained inside ruliad (contains all possible rules).

So if we know starting conditions and specific rules specific we our universe with infinite time and resources we can create exact universe as our. Exact as placing every atom in "model" as in reality.

This is power of his approach. He started with ruliad as math investingation and he stumbled to natural laws.


Not if those rocks are from the Solar system. Read the chapters on Asteroids, Comets, Meteorites, and Trans Neptunian Objects. The evidence of the Global Flood is everywhere, even outside planet earth.
My issue is how did he got started woth his theory?

If he started with global food, my theory breaks current evidence, add new elements to explain evidence, additions breaks now relevant evidence, add new additions to explain now revelant evidence...

It's never ending recursion. I'm certain he didn't want to deal with solar system history, now he has.

It's extremely unlikely such theory will work since whole time is spend on patching holes. Historically looking, great theories explain one physical problem very well. Then theoreticians finds implications for new uknown phenomena which are corfirmed experimentally.
 

This should be good intro:


Here is math basis:


This implies that our universe obey some specific rules which we call natural laws. These rules are contained inside ruliad (contains all possible rules).
That's a lot to digest, and I'm not so sure it isn't just a bunch of technobabble. My initial gut reaction from reading the first paragraph of the first article, indicates that it is. It will take some time for me to go through all of that.

So if we know starting conditions and specific rules specific we our universe with infinite time and resources we can create exact universe as our. Exact as placing every atom in "model" as in reality.

This is power of his approach. He started with ruliad as math investingation and he stumbled to natural laws.



My issue is how did he got started woth his theory?
And how did Wolfman get started with his theories. Apply the same logic to him as you would to any other theory.

If he started with global food, my theory breaks current evidence, add new elements to explain evidence, additions breaks now relevant evidence, add new additions to explain now revelant evidence...
As I have repeatedly said, Dr. Walt Brown started off as an Old Earther, when he became a believer.

It's never ending recursion. I'm certain he didn't want to deal with solar system history, now he has.
What makes you so certain? The fact that an explosion of the fountains of the great deep launched rocks into space, according to HPT, leave the Solar System as one of many areas that thi theory is going to delve into. I would be curious how Wolfman explains those bodies and their compound similarities to what is common on earth and yet rare within the Solar system, or the craters on the moon. What are your thoughts?

It's extremely unlikely such theory will work since whole time is spend on patching holes.
Ha! That is such a HUGE mischaracterization of HPT, which proves that you simply have not done your homework. You have prejudged it.

Historically looking, great theories explain one physical problem very well. Then theoreticians finds implications for new uknown phenomena which are corfirmed experimentally.
Well, HPT has a Biblical account to back it up. Do you believe, as most of us here at Biblical Families, that all Scripture is God-breathed? HPT explains a TON of problems very well. I don't see any other theories that really explain the myriad problems demonstrated in Dr. Browns work. Some of the problems can possibly be explained by some of the theories, but each of those theories seem to run into major issues with other problems. You may refer to those theories as great theories, but that is backwards thinking. Theoreticians have yet to find the impications for those mryiad problems. You are being dishonest with yourself. You have every right to beliee what you want, but when you post that here in a public forum, you had better be willing to address thoe problems. Look through the chapters I referred you to. Do some homework. I will do homework on my end, when I have a chance, and then we can discuss.
 
That's a lot to digest, and I'm not so sure it isn't just a bunch of technobabble. My initial gut reaction from reading the first paragraph of the first article, indicates that it is. It will take some time for me to go through all of that.
It will take you days. I count two days for me and I'm fast reader. Working days, not few hours on evening.

And how did Wolfman get started with his theories. Apply the same logic to him as you would to any other theory.
It's Wolfram. There is no wolf in name.

He is special case because he is mathematican, so he didn't follow "standard process" for creating physics theory. He started with ruliad which functions as axiomatic base which can be taken as true and therefore it's highly probable conclusions are true.

Remember, true axiom(s) plus correct logic results in true conclusion.

He had also found rules which created fractal which are naturally occuring in nature. So he isn't no name talking something.


As I have repeatedly said, Dr. Walt Brown started off as an Old Earther, when he became a believer.


What makes you so certain?
Because scientists love their theories more than their wives.

Scientists finds some correlation and afyer inventing logical explanation, new theory is born. After some time, he or someone else finds some hole.

So original scientist thinks that he will fix theory and make you whole if he just adda some new variable. Start whole process again.

There is reason I say this. For example, Keynesian should died in 70s when impossible happened: high inflation and high unemployment.

Did economists kill Keynesianism? Off course, not. They tried to fix it.

By the way, marginal revolution happened in 1870s in economics demolishing labor theory of value and, since Marxism is based on labor theory of value, it should have killed Marxism. It didn't.

Using economics examples maybe be little unfair, but killing provable wrong scientific theories is bloody hard, even when they are less monetary interests.

I had read somewhere that Ptolemaic explanation of solar system was in similar ways incrementally upgraded.

There is reason Kuhn, great guy explaining how science actually advances, has said that science advances with every funeral.

The fact that an explosion of the fountains of the great deep launched rocks into space, according to HPT, leave the Solar System as one of many areas that thi theory is going to delve into. I would be curious how Wolfman explains those bodies and their compound similarities to what is common on earth and yet rare within the Solar system, or the craters on the moon. What are your thoughts?
I don't think you will find anything so specific. You will find general physical laws which would be way more valuable for humanity to understand than any how solar system or great flood was created.

Ha! That is such a HUGE mischaracterization of HPT, which proves that you simply have not done your homework. You have prejudged it.
I reasonably concluded it has low probably of being true. And generally I prefer generalizations over specifics.

Well, HPT has a Biblical account to back it up. Do you believe, as most of us here at Biblical Families, that all Scripture is God-breathed?
Bible isn't scientific proof. And why people here start calling me unbeliever when I start poking their beliefs? Man.
 
It will take you days. I count two days for me and I'm fast reader. Working days, not few hours on evening.
Yeah I found a Youtube video of him reading it. I will jump on it when I get a chance.

EDIT: He has several papers out there. Is there one in particular you would recommend that I start out with?
It's Wolfram. There is no wolf in name.
Got it. I realized that the other day when I went back to google it.

He is special case because he is mathematican, so he didn't follow "standard process" for creating physics theory. He started with ruliad which functions as axiomatic base which can be taken as true and therefore it's highly probable conclusions are true.
It is interesting, and I have to wonder how closely then it relate to Stochastic Electrodynamics.

Remember, true axiom(s) plus correct logic results in true conclusion.

He had also found rules which created fractal which are naturally occuring in nature. So he isn't no name talking something.
Cool. I am not going to prejudge him, but the closer he aligns to SR and GR, the more skepticism I will have towards him.
Because scientists love their theories more than their wives.
True, but yet an overgeneralization.
Scientists finds some correlation and afyer inventing logical explanation, new theory is born. After some time, he or someone else finds some hole.
So not based on anything you actually researched with regard to HPT. Got it!
So original scientist thinks that he will fix theory and make you whole if he just adda some new variable. Start whole process again.

There is reason I say this. For example, Keynesian should died in 70s when impossible happened: high inflation and high unemployment.

Did economists kill Keynesianism? Off course, not. They tried to fix it.

By the way, marginal revolution happened in 1870s in economics demolishing labor theory of value and, since Marxism is based on labor theory of value, it should have killed Marxism. It didn't.

Using economics examples maybe be little unfair, but killing provable wrong scientific theories is bloody hard, even when they are less monetary interests.
Yes it is unfair, especially when you have yet to do a shred of investigation.

I had read somewhere that Ptolemaic explanation of solar system was in similar ways incrementally upgraded.

There is reason Kuhn, great guy explaining how science actually advances, has said that science advances with every funeral.
OK, I get your point.
I don't think you will find anything so specific. You will find general physical laws which would be way more valuable for humanity to understand than any how solar system or great flood was created.
OK, then why do you seem to think HPT is wrong or that it even contradicts anything Wolfram has proposed? HPT and C-Decay do not prove a young universe, but the latter does open the possibility for distant starlight to reach earth in a 6,000 year time frame. Interestingly enough, you will hear Barry Setterfied describe time in terms of atomic clocks, if you ever investigate what he says. From what I read/heard from Wolfram, his definition of time might work well with C-Decay.

I reasonably concluded it has low probably of being true. And generally I prefer generalizations over specifics.
But you didn't do a shred of investigation.

Bible isn't scientific proof. And why people here start calling me unbeliever when I start poking their beliefs? Man.
I didn't call you an unbeliever, but you can go look for yourself at the Biblical Families statement of beliefs, in partiular what it says regarding our beliefs with regard to the Bible. HPT follows a ton of evidence and does comparison and contrast with several other theories. Choose one of the theories regarding the origin of Comets. Look up Table 17 in ITB, and assign your own values (Red, Green, Yellow) to the theory of your choice as well as to HPT. The fact that HPT does follow science and does challenge other theories that are in the Establishment Scientific community, is reassuring about the veracity of Scripture, which has been instrumental in strengthening the fiath of some, yours truly included, and assisting unbelievers in finding the truth of God's Word. Rather than HPTrelying on the Bible to prop up its science, it is quite beneficial to prop up the Bible with that scientific pillar I mentioned in a previous post.
 
I didn't call you an unbeliever, but you can go look for yourself at the Biblical Families statement of beliefs, in partiular what it says regarding our beliefs with regard to the Bible.
You mean this?:

Doctrinal Statement​

Since our public ministry is inclusive of Christ-followers from all backgrounds (evangelical, Pentecostal, fundamental, charismatic, Messianic, mainstream denominations, nondenominational, and more) we simply state that we are in agreement with the Apostles Creed of the early church, and are happy to fellowship as brothers and sisters with those who worship the one true God, our Creator; acknowledge the deity of Christ, His death and resurrection, and His redemptive work for us on the Cross; and make an effort to walk in their lives like they are redeemed by Him. We accept the Bible as God's inspired Word and His only written revelation.

Apostles Creed​

I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth; And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord: who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; the third day he rose from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
 
I do too. So far as I can tell my friend @MemeFan does as well.
Megan, why don't you just answer the questions that I raised regarding whether you believe in the second coming, etc.?
 
Megan, why don't you just answer the questions that I raised regarding whether you believe in the second coming, etc.?
I am not speaking on behalf of anybody, just myself- I am increasingly disillusioned by the doctrine of Pretribulation Rapture, Mid Tribulation and Post Tribulation Rapture. I have studied this and it is hard to come to a definitive conclusion. Each Theologian espousing a position has good scripture and each has illogical conclusions. For instance: His return is imminent so therefore I don't have to pay back my time-obligations. While others in the Mid or Post positions are constantly pointing at events as the fulfillment of particular events. I would label those as the ME generation regarding eschatology only to be rebuffed by facts on the ground. If that is the case we are already in the New Millenium!
In the face of all that we are still admonished to "Be Ready". I see that as, "have your coat and bug-out bag by the front door!" but don't forget the chickens and cows they still need to be tended to.
 
Yeah I found a Youtube video of him reading it. I will jump on it when I get a chance.

EDIT: He has several papers out there. Is there one in particular you would recommend that I start out with?
I don't know. I didn't read them.

Besides, I have already posted starting material.
OK, then why do you seem to think HPT is wrong or that it even contradicts anything Wolfram has proposed? HPT and C-Decay do not prove a young universe, but the latter does open the possibility for distant starlight to reach earth in a 6,000 year time frame. Interestingly enough, you will hear Barry Setterfied describe time in terms of atomic clocks, if you ever investigate what he says. From what I read/heard from Wolfram, his definition of time might work well with C-Decay.
I don't think anything for this issue.

But you didn't do a shred of investigation.
I have watched HPT Overviews by Bryan Nickel on YouTube. My unfavorability is mostly confirmed.

First, guy know what he is speaking. He says he is mechanical engineer and there is no reason not to trust. His explanation of concept is good and theory look logical. For every concept, he tell us how to test it straightforward. Details I can't judge since I don't physics enough.

What I can check is how he thinks and how he constructs his theory, which sadly leaves much to be desired. He doesn't follow obvious implications and checks them. Also, I don't sense that he ask himself the obvious counterexample.

For example, he claims that in central Atlantic was opened hole creating new plates launching water into atmosphere. He claim proof is plateau on Atlantic side on North America, South America and West followed by mountain chains parallel with "opened hole" on opposite side from Atlantic. OK, don't know enough to comment physics. However, what is with Europe? It border Atlantics and doesn't have mountain chain parallel with Atlantic.

He could claim this is special case and explain how HPT explains this in another video or special paper. He doesn't this. This pisses me off. Guy spend hours making videos of Earth and doesn't see on map how Europe contradicts his explanation. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

He also claims mammoths lived in tropics and provides some good explanation on first try. He also claim there was some process moving equator to it's current location creating reason we find mammoths now in Siberia. Ok. What about fossils of polar animals from pre-Flood polar regions? Polar regions have living being now and there isn't any reason for opposite before flood. No comments. Not checking obvious implication is his theory correct.

Also, he claim Earth has lost 3% of mass which are now asteroids. OK? So average mass density has to be lowered or Earth radius has to get smaller. No check.

Also, how did Noah survived waves? I can't imagine raising mountains without earthquakes. What they bring near water? Water waves 10+ meter tall. How can Noah's ship survive this?

Where is math proof that water can push rocks into space? What about rocks which don't achieve escape velocity? They will fall both creating bombardment of surface. Where is proof? Again, it's obvious not all rocks will finish in space.

By the way, since Earth has lost mass, gravity between Sun and Earth should weaken changing Earth's orbit around sun. Since G=(gravity constant*m1*ma2)/(distance*distance), Earth will less mass will fell less gravity pull moving Earth away. Assuming no other forces, it will move 3% from pre-Flood orbit. I think. Assuming same speed of Earth as before flood and checking with circumference of cycle, now it it will take Earth 3%*2*3.14 = 0.1884, so about 18% more time for one cycle around Sun.

He claim before Flood one year is 360 days. Now I don't need calculator to see that 18% of 360 is way higher way 5.something, so theory falls "order of magnitude" math test.

This isn't worst. You see, Earth is moving through space when "Atlantic hole" was opened. He did check that Earth accidentally won't achieve escape speed from Sun's gravity? Of course not.

I have watched this video before replaying:


What is important is claim that on asteroid amino acids were found with both chirality. Here on Earth, all living being create only left chirality amino acids. So if asteroids only come from Earth and on Earth are only left chirality amino acids, how are right amino acids found on asteroids?

I didn't call you an unbeliever, but you can go look for yourself at the Biblical Families statement of beliefs, in partiular what it says regarding our beliefs with regard to the Bible. HPT follows a ton of evidence and does comparison and contrast with several other theories. Choose one of the theories regarding the origin of Comets. Look up Table 17 in ITB, and assign your own values (Red, Green, Yellow) to the theory of your choice as well as to HPT. The fact that HPT does follow science and does challenge other theories that are in the Establishment Scientific community, is reassuring about the veracity of Scripture, which has been instrumental in strengthening the fiath of some, yours truly included, and assisting unbelievers in finding the truth of God's Word. Rather than HPTrelying on the Bible to prop up its science, it is quite beneficial to prop up the Bible with that scientific pillar I mentioned in a previous post.
I think he needs way better science. It has happened exactly what I have (almost) predicted.

He tried to create theory to explain everything, didn't notice holes and now tries to expand theory not noticing even more holes.

Do you what is strange? If this guys didn't try to claim asteroids come from Earth, I have far less to critique him. I have counted 8 issues and 5 are direct consequence of rocks flying into space. :eek::eek:Without flying rocks it more reasonable theory.

I still wouldn't have forgiven him Europe.

There is reason "creationist" are mocking and laughing stock in science community. It ain't faith. It's because people like me with just one course of physics at college have so much obvious questions after watching. I wonder will professional physicists be able to write longer paper with questions and hole noticing that paper explaining theory.

By the way, notice how to explain more, correct misunderstanding etc... will complicate theory increasing chance of some data not being explained by theory creating more complex theory...... so again never ending cycle.

My final conclusion: This guy may understand how current theories are crap. Sadly, he is trying to replace crap with crap.
 
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