Well I came here because of sister wives. I have to confess I am trying to wrap my head around several ideas, many of these have threads here:
Why is poly-marraige still illegal? I mean in relation to gay marriage.
The whole religious side?
Being a messianic Jew, I am even more conflicted on this issue. Jews for the most part are highly mono.
Why does it seem there are a bunch of 'messianic' 'torah' based Christians on here?
And a pile more of questions, that I will get answered.
I am highly analytical and want solid and satisfying answers that are logical and coherent. The answers need to stand up to my scrutiny which is touch as I can find holes in most arguments. I guess seminary caused me to look for to many questions.
Have a most happy day
Greetings brother and Welcome.
Your questions require a more thorough response than what I can give herein. But I urge you to go to the Biblical Families Teaching Articles section of this website. You'll find many good resources there that will be an aid to you I believe. Here is the link to that section:
viewforum.php?f=57
All of the articles therein come from those us with either extensive Bible college training or even with advanced doctoral degrees in the respective field of theology. So some of your questions, especially about what we believe in regard to the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ can be seen there which applies to your questions about "Torah based" Christians.
I'll provide a brief response to a few of your statements here though.
Why is poly marriage still illegal in light of the fact gays are now being offered marriage rights?
This has much to do with the fact of two keys: (1) Postmillennial ideology that built a nation that at first attempted to build a theocratic society (review the Puritan and Pilgrims in early colonies). (2) The marriage license ideology that we as a nation on the whole adopted which allows government to now define and govern those who carry the terms husband and wife.
Liberty to choose how one defines and builds their own family has been a tough battle. Liberty in and of itself has also been tough. It was not until the Baptists in 1789 convinced Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and others to grant the 1st Amendment that we had true religious liberty. To this day the libertarians and the purists still battle it out, just like in the days of the Puritans and the Pilgrims with the likes of Roger Williams. Coupling that with Postmillennial replacement theology that drifted here still from Rome through the Puritan and Pilgrims (who had not reformed enough), along with an ascetical view of man and sexuality, such a combination set a foundation of monogamy only for the country. To this day it still exists though it is beginning to change. The Purists and Constantinian politicians who embrace ascetical ideas of sex and marriage want to keep monogamy and reject any other union except heterosexual unions, and the ones who favor consensual liberty favor allowing individuals to define how they unite and build their own families according to their own consciences so long as promises made are kept (civil law) and no physical force or coercion is used (criminal law). Then, of course, you have people in between with a mixture of the two ideas and a lack of consistency in how it is applied to various scenarios which eventually produce conflicting legislative laws.
As for the religious side I'm not sure what your question is. I will simply say that a strict and literal reading of Scripture yields the conclusion that polygyny does not run contrary to God's teachings.
As for the Jews. Jewish theology did not embrace monogamy until the 800's. So really the monogamy only position is a modern development among Jewish leaders. Historically they have not been this way. At another time if you desire I can post for you the historical quotes on this and show you the exact Rabbi who introduced this change in the 800's. And, one must never forget that a Jew today who does not believe in Christ is without the Holy Spirit and thus he or she suffers from 1 Cor. 2:14 where the Bible says a lost person
cannot understand the spiritual things of God.
Why does there seem to be a bunch of Torah based Christians here?
The subject of polygyny often draws people who are tenacious about living out the specifics of the Mosaic Law as that law code in the Bible speaks much about the subject. Some feel that this is the best place to draw their support for the doctrine. However, the NT is just as plain and clear on this subject when one rightly understands the nature of Christ and his relationship/symetry to his body which is composed of multiple members. This too is discussed in the articles in the teaching forum section. Furthermore, as Christians we recognize that Christianity grew out of Judaism. Though many of us have the freedom of conscience not to obey every specific or the Mosaic Law in totality we also recognize that not all believers in Christ have this freedom of conscience and thus we gladly welcome those whose conscience calls for them to follow some of the Mosaic Laws, customs, regulations, etc. What we do not welcome is any person demanding that a believer in Christ MUST practice any specific Mosaic Law as NT believers are under the Law of Messiah/Christ (Hebrews 7; Gal. 6:2). NOR on the other hand do we welcome believers under the Law of Christ to demand that a person MUST forsake the customs and law of Moses as that too is a holy law code and of God. They have freedom in Christ to practice the law whereas we in Christ also have freedom from the Mosaic Law since the Law of Christ is now the primary and direct authority over us. So long as a person is not obeying the law to be saved or sanctified for righteousness then the person is free to follow any custom of the Mosaic Law unless specifically altered by Christ or an apostolic writing. Again, there is a full article on this in the teaching sections forum titled: The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. In short, we would for the most part agree with the position of the Association of Messianic Congregations on this subject (see the link to their site in the article). As a Messianic Jew I urge you to examine their links and their teachings as they are a solid, theologically well trained, and balanced group of Messianic Jews who love Christ and his Word deeply. I think you may find a good resource in them in certain areas.
Please feel free to ask away with any other questions you might have. If you have any question you would like to have answered off the public forums then please email us:
staff@biblicalfamilies.org
Dr. Allen
