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Of Bubbles and Man-Sharing

CecilW

CecilW

Member
Real Person
Male
Ok Ladies, I understand that it is difficult to wrap yourself around the idea that your husband wants to have another wife, when he's already got YOU. And even if you kind of accept it on a theoretical theological level, the thought of him going OFF SOMEWHERES, doing WHO KNOWS WHAT together, without you, may well be crazy-making!

Well, more accurately, I THINK I understand it. Admittedly, I am a guy.

But something occurred to me as a way of thinking about it that MIGHT be helpful. So I decided to put it out here, and y'all can tell if it is good or screwey. Easy enough to delete it if needed. *wry grin* Fair enough?

It's this idea of relationship bubbles, mentioned elsewhere in this forum, taken even further.

The first plurally married guy I went and visited said, "People don't think about it, but when you change from monogamy to polygamy the number of relationships you have grows exponentially, NOT by "addition". They think that they're adding a wife, so now they will have two relationships. Not so. They'll have three each."

He went on to explain that when it's just Adam and Eve, they've got a bubble of relationship that surrounds them that is independent of everyone else, and which others cannot properly attempt to breach or control. One. But when Jill shows up, the overall marriage instantly jumps to FOUR. Adam-Eve, Adam-Jill, Eve-Jill, and Adam-Eve-Jill (when they're interacting all together.)

Now here's the thing. Adam can't validly try to micro manage the relationship between Eve and Jill. He can only work on his with each of them, and that of the three of them together. For most guys, no problem. We don't want to anyway.

And Jill has at least SOME advantage, in that she's coming to the the relationships knowing that a prior relationship already exists between Adam and Eve.

Eve is the one with a hard time as she struggles with an urge to try to control the Adam-Jill relationship, or at least monitor it and be kept completely in the loop. Unfortunately, doing so would make it the Adam-Eve-Jill relationship instead of the Adam-Jill. *sigh* What to do?

This weekend, it occurred to me that if we could get used to and truly accept that such a multi-person relationship ALREADY EXISTS, it might be easier to accept the addition of one more.

What or who already exists as a third person in our monogamous marriages? Well, don't the pastors that marry us all manage to drone on and on about how Christ is gonna be the third person in our marriage? The unseen guest at our table, the ... (And we're thinking 'Shut UP already, so we can get to the KISSING part!' :lol: )?

So you have a relationship with Jesus, right? Independent and separate from that of your husband, who has his own of course. Then there's your relationship with your husband directly, and finally that of all three of you together (Aaaah, THAT's what family worship is -- the three of you hanging out together!) And you DO accept that you can't control your husband's relationship with Jesus, right? Or, if you're reading this, fellas, you DO honor your wife's independent relationship with Him, right? (If not, we need to TALK!)

So I'm wondering whether if we can wrap our minds around the idea that our marriage has already got multiple bubbles going on, maybe we can more easily scoot our egos over, and make room for one more?

Ok, it's late and I may well be rambling. Somebody else take over. I'm going to sleep. :roll:
 
Cecil is a very perceptive poly pastor. When my wife Peggy first introduced me to polygyny about 10 yrs ago, Cecil was a great sounding board. I kinda came into poly through the back door so to speak, since it was my wife that desired it, not me. I had discovered that she and our live in nanny were having an intimate relationship together. I was faced with a decision, throw the nanny out, throw the wife out, or embrace polygyny. I had unquestioningly accepted the monogamy mandate of traditional Christianity, and while in my study of Christian polygyny, i met Cecil. He was absolutely the best, unbiased, openminded counselor out there. Patriarchal polygamists were publically chastising me for allowing intimacy between my wives, (often while secretly encouraging it among their own wives).

Cecil helped me through a very difficult time, and a few years later we were blessed with a visit from Cecil and Cindy as they traveled from Oregon to the east coast where they are now. Cecil's wisdom did not come easily, i know he has struggled to overcome anti poly prejudice in his own life. I guess that is why God allows us to go through such stuff, so we can have compassion on others going through similar situations.

He is right about this bubble thing, and as the number of wives in the union increases, it begins to look like the stage at a Lawrence Welk show. bubbles everywhere.

Thanks Cecil.

Paul
 
YW, Paul, and good to see you here.

Thanks also for your support of the bubble idea. Relationships CAN get complicated in a hurry, can't they?

But what interests me, for this particular thread, is the idea that it ALREADY APPLIES, even in monogamous relationships because of the close and intimate relationship each of us hopefully has with Jesus; and whether reframing our thinking via this paradigm might make it easier to adjust to PM and lovingly accept a new wife into the family with less stress and/or feelings of need to try to control?

Maybe so, maybe not. Had to ask. :)
 
Hey there Cecil,

Thanks much for once again sharing & blessing us with your learned wisdom & insights here! :) Bubbles/relationships - "bubble relationships," huh guess I never thought of it that way. But what an interesting spin and very thought provoking. I do see where you're coming from, & I'm picking up what you're laying down! :lol: While I do like and respect the anology of our individual relationships that we have with Jesus, I guess I could go to the next level, and say that weather mono or poly, we all have relationships outside of our marriages with our children, friends & family as well.

I guess the difference for me is that, while having these other outside relationships, they are not on the same level of intimacy and special closeness that I have with my dh. He and I alone have our own priviate experiences, memories & foundation both physical & emotional that others do not have with us. I've discussed this with other mono wives considering pm. Sometimes for us the sharing of our dh's with a sw, would be harder in regard to the new special emotional connection that they'd have with dh, more so than the intimate factor. No we don't want to be immature & selfish. Especially if as "first wives," we were the ones to first bring pm up with our dh's. We hopefully have been in prayer, research & biblical study over the matter, while following our dh's lead in all things. And through all of that, we've "seen the bigger/more meaningful Godly picture, vision for our families through pm." We do need to learn to daily die to self and our selfish ways! Looking to the Godly good for all. I always say that life is a learning journey, while striving to seek HIs will above all else, & loving others as Christ loves us.

However that learning journey on the path of pm, can be a long hard & somewhat confusing one at times. But of course in the end if we're trusting & mature enough to step out in faith into the waters of pm, if called of God to do so, then the blessings could be many for all. :) It's truly not that I feel another Sister in the Lord, who also wants the love and protective covering of a husband and family doesn't deserve it. Or that in the end I'd truly want to keep those blessings from her. Especially if my dh was willing and able to offer such a gift of a loving marriage, home & family to her. However again, that emotional connection would be the hardest to accept and grow from in the beginning. We first wives, have just been use to having our dh's to ourselves. Use to being the one to supply their needs, to support, encourage, cheer on, serve, share & build a life together. So of course in the beginning, the whole pm journey is a little hard to wrap our brains around! ;) It is only natural to have feelings of not being good enough anymore or being replaced. When a couple has truly studied, prayed and had honest & compassionate talks about pm,& our dh's have reassured us that we are deeply loved, cared for, appreciated & respected, we should be more willing to walk in obedience & step out in faith.

My dh has assured me that if & when he may ever feel led of God towards a pm, that he wouldn't be doing so to replace me on any level. That his love & devotion to me and our family will never end, nor will the special relationship that we have. He's tried to explain that his new relationship to any future sw that God may lead us too, will not be "better or more important than our relationship or more special," just different than ours. That we'd be striving to be a family united in Christ, with a loving vision & purpose. Hearing this from him, while continuing to pray and trust in Yeshua's plans and will for our marriage is truly a huge source of comfort, peace & security on this journey! I guess we wives just need to be reassured and reminded of our special place in our dh's heart and life from time to time. ;)

So all that to say; yes Cecil I do get what your saying about "bubble relationships!" :D Just thought I'd elborate a little, and let the guys see whats going on in the heads & hearts of us women. You do have a wise and thoughtful premise regarding relationships, sharing & bubbles. :) :lol: Thanks much for caring enough to help us first wives or any 2nd or 3rd, wrap our sometimes fearful brains around the whole concept of pm! Keep on Keepin on with Yeshua, family & friends. Seeking His wisdom, provisiions and joy for the journey.

FOR HIS GLORY ALONE!
F.S.

I PRAY THAT I BE NOT A HINDRANCE!
PROVERBS 3:5-8 :)
 
Greetings & Blessings Paul!

Welcome to Biblical Families, if you are indeed new to the forums here. Please forgive me if you've been here for a while. I guess I just don't remember seeing your posts here. As I've shared before, with each blessing of our kiddos they've managed to steal my brain cells along the way! Plus I think that I'm developing "sometimers," and all at the ripe old age of 41! :lol:

What a small world, that you also have the honor of having a friend in Cecil as the rest of us do. ;) I truly enjoy and gain Godly wisdom & new perspectives from Cecil's shared insights. As I also enjoyed your post today. What an awesome journey your family has been on. Speaks volumes of the Powerful Healing, Restoration, Joy and New found Visions & Missions that Yeshua can so lovingly provide for us, when we seek to do His will. What a thought provoking & encouraging testimony you have. God had you on quite a journey in the beginning. As he reassured you of your position in your home & in your marriage, during the discovery of your first wife & 2nd wife, then nanny's relationship with your 1st wife in the beginning. Is this correct? I'm a little confused from your first post in another section on the forums here. I've been researching all aspects of pm, one of them being that some families participate in the wives also sharing intimacy during certain times. Approved of my their dh's, and the feeling that scripture doesn't forbid this. Although that's a whole other topic that I'm confused of and unsure of. I only bring it up b/c you had mentioned that particular situation that occured in your family. Anywho it's good to have ya here, as I look forward to knowing you better and seeing more of your posts. Would any of your wives feel comfortable to introduce themselves and share here as well? Take care. God be with thee, guide thee & bless thee according to His Perfect will for your family! :)

FOR HIS GLORY ALONE,
F.S.
 
We don't want to lock Cecil's interesting 'bubble thread', so I'm just requesting that we keep our posts here on that original topic.
Thanks,
Nathan 'The Bubblemaker'
 
"So you have a relationship with Jesus, right? Independent and separate from that of your husband, who has his own of course. Then there's your relationship with your husband directly, and finally that of all three of you together (Aaaah, THAT's what family worship is -- the three of you hanging out together!) And you DO accept that you can't control your husband's relationship with Jesus, right?"

Cecil,

I love this! What a great thought and take on the different relationships we have in marriages. And you didn't even mention the IN-LAWS! lol I think this might really help someone grasp the "okayness" of a man emotionally relating to more than one woman. I usually like to talk about a mothers relationship with her children as an example of "loving several" but many women dismiss that because they say it is not as intimate as what they have with their husbands. You can not get anymore intimate than our individual relationship with our Heavenly Father. So your analogy really works for me!

Julieb
 
Good post Cecil,
Hope that it helps those ladies as well as those men who need that little extra "push" into understanding PM relationships.
 
Faithful Servant said:
No problem Nathan!

Didn't mean to start a fire here,or to stir the pot so to speak. Was just breifly touching on what Paul himself had posted here today. I totally understand where your concern is coming from, and I will of course respect your wishes regarding the matter. Take care & God Bless.

F.S. :)
Click to expand...

F.S.
I was also interested in Paul's testimony, but I understand that we are talking about Bubbles in this Thread. Cecil truly has a gift at relating important issues, that are sometimes way above my head, in a language that I can totally understand. The Bubbles make me think about the orginal movie "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" where Grandpa Joe and Charlie are in the fizzy lifting drink room. They drink fizzy lifting drinks and begin floating to the top of ceiling.

Michelle
 
Hey there Michelle,

So if we all drink the "bubbles instead of the koolaid," we'll all be happily floating around in the bubbles of pm?! ;) :lol: Sorry just couldn't resist, you can smack me later! And again Cecil, very good post - Tx you for opening our minds into areas that sometimes our minds are afraid to open up too! Very insightful and helpful on the pm journey. ;) God Bless.

F.S.
 
Faithful Servant said:
Hey there Michelle,

So if we all drink the "bubbles instead of the koolaid," we'll all be happily floating around in the bubbles of pm?! ;) :lol: Sorry just couldn't resist, you can smack me later! And again Cecil, very good post - Tx you for opening our minds into areas that sometimes our minds are afraid to open up too! Very insightful and helpful on the pm journey. ;) God Bless.

F.S.
Click to expand...

FS,
Ha! Yes, the bubbles would be a much better drink. The Kool-Aid, not so much. I promise not to give you the "mama smack" maybe just a gentle slap on the back of the hand instead. :lol:
 
I'm going to be the "bah humbug" one on this topic, but I'm not feeling the analogy whatsoever. It's one thing to each have an abstract relationship with the LORD, but it's a whole other story to watch your husband be with another woman in the flesh and having to deal with the physical, in your face stuff on a daily basis. Oh how I wish it was as simple as some make it out to be sometimes and not to be rude, but it's often those who are not living this out.
 
Fair enough, SeekHim. That's why I posted it for comment.

Some who have connected strongly with it on this thread ARE living it and have been for many years. You don't.

Guess we all be different. Thanks for your input.
 
Greetings DeAnn,

First of all, I'd just like to take a minute to say that I so appreciate your humble/honest and transparent shared testimony while traveling on the trails of pm! :) I do realize that your family is only "in the beginning stages" with pm, but for just starting out on this journey, you have tried your best in Yeshuas Might & Power to be faithful to your dh with the call of pm. You are a faithful servant of the Great I Am, as you are to your Godly husband and the family you've been blessed with! I know many of us Sisters in Christ here have learned allot through your shared insights on your journey.

We so appreciate your tender, caring, & faithful heart, full of joys & struggles that you share with us. As your testimony helps "to keep it real," as they say! ;) I also agree with your input on this particular post. As I also can see "both sides of this issue." As I always say, life is a learning journey on this earth. We're only given this one life. Sometimes it's meant to be traveled with just one special spouse, or Lord willing sometimes Yeshua may have plans that include traveling on this journey with expanded families - plural families. Just as home schooling isn't for the faint of heart, neither is pm! ;) Although I do believe that there is much grace, holding of hearts and hands & a learning curve in the beginning, if called to the pm trails! We Can do All things through Christ Jesus, who Strengthens us! As again if called to pm, He Can also guide, encourage, offer support & grace, along with Strengthening us for the pm journey! It's such a blessing to be in a community of like minded believers such as this one, that offers a helpful Hand Up in Christ!

Thanks Cecil for caring enough to offer words of Wisdom & Comfort to the weary travelers of pm! I appreciate your heart of concern, to help us all wrap our sometimes fearful minds around a particular call of God, that may be hard to trust in and follow whole heartily and obediently! :) Keep on Keepin on with Yeshua, family & friends. Being a blessing on whatever trail Yeshua places your family on, weather mono or poly. Being blessed in return for the Noble, Pure & Loving motives of our hearts, & according to His Perfect Will! :)

FOR HIS GLORY ALONE,
F.S.
 
Who is living it? Julieb? I'm pretty sure she is the only one. Granted, I am having a bad week, so I apologize for being so blunt and grim. :oops: However, even on my good days, I am still honest about the hard aspects of living PM. Hubby often says it's all about perspective so I would pray for the proper godly perspective and perhaps that will come with time, as my mind is renewed and/or as I continue to press in for the LORD to do a total makeover of my heart/mind.
 
*grin* Wanna know why denominations fight? And even the fellas here get to rumbling over issues like the Sabbath? Cause we guys have the same struggle on our "level".

Watching the ladies struggle has helped me as a man to understand and ease up on some of my own struggles over the years. I truly believe that this business of the human family being like the divine family and vice versa with lessons to learn back and forth is genuine and genuinely helpful.

Sorry if it rubs you across the grain today, SeekHim. Hope this week goes better for you.
 
Thanks so much, Cecil. You know, as I think about it, hubby recently brought up an analogy regarding the LORD with us vs. a hubby with more than one wife and as much as I hated to admit it, he was right. You're probably right too, but in my flesh, it just doesn't seem that simple many days. I agree though, this kind of family has opened my eyes to the divine family as well.

Hubby's analogy had to do with my cry that I feel like there is no longer anything sacred between us; there is nothing that sets me apart anymore. He said he has had similar feelings with the LORD like thinking the LORD bestowed some secret tidbit to him only to find others the LORD has also shared with. Hubby said it is that same feeling of, "What makes me so special?" He said he realized that it's vanity and pride to look at it that way. Ouch.
 
Seekhim1

In the flesh, what sets you apart is that you are the wife of his youth. You bore him 4 children and you have been with him through thick and thin. In a lot of ways you raised each other, as did T and hubby. I understand your feelings on this, because we have been through this as well. I struggled for a long time about what set me apart. I have only been with hubby for a few short years. I have no children and we probably won't have any together. So really, there was nothing about me that made me special or unique in any way.

Most of the solution comes from our relationship with the Lord. It is hard for me to admit that in many ways, the increased intimacy with my Lord has decreased my need for this, but since we are flesh and there will always be parts of us that are flesh we made a couple of concessions to that:

One, hubby has a unique "pet name" for each of us. If he confuses us and uses the wrong name, we gently remind him that he has used the wrong name. We found one thing for me that sets me apart. It is small, and I don't talk about it, but it is something that I can verbalize during times of insecurity. T will always be the wife of hubby's youth and always be the mother of his children. I wanted something that was mine. Regardless of our relationship with the Lord, we each have a unique relationship with our husbands. And while we strive daily to die to our flesh, the reality is that our flesh remains. Without some comfort for that flesh, our lives can be truly uncomfortable. Maybe someday you won't need to be set apart anymore, but that will be when the borg take over the planet and remove our souls (mind, will & emotions). We can't use this as an excuse to fail to grow in our relationship with God, but the reality is we will be flesh until the day we die.
 
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