Have you looked at the info on attachment styles? I found both that and the Enneagram helpful in getting another perspective on what I cope with.
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HannahMiller
New Member
Prehaps it is not a good time for your husband to debate the validity of theological concepts, with immediate real world conquences with you, that creates increased fear for your survival.
Masculine has a role.
Feminine has a role.
God is masculine to a man, men are feminine in relationship with God. Men are masculine to a woman, women are feminine in relationship with men. Women are masculine to children, children are feminine in relationship to women.
If the masculine is taking good care of the feminine in any of these relationships all is well. If all is not well, the masculine needs to figure out what to improve for the wellbeing of the feminine.
I grew up with four younger sisters and no brothers...but we NEVER talked about feelings. Weird! My sisterwife is also from an all daughter family...she has two sisters. Her family doesn't talk much either.
I had little breaks in nursing because of miscarriages. I'd get pregnant, my milk would dry up, then at about 12 weeks I'd lose the baby. I know the crazy and overwhelm of being the only wife and mom. My sisterwife has far less stress with her two. Even though I'm past the raising littles stage, I am still incredibly blessed by who she is and everything she does here.
Well the rest of that was sarcastic hyperbolism, but this part is real. The modern divorce rates (including within the church), female unhappiness trends, male suicide rates and homelessness, the female promiscuity epidemic - all are results of the chosen lifestyle of Luciferian inversion.
At the core of it is this: "I don't have to follow the rules, I don't have to listen to others, I can make my own happiness... I can be my own God."
The political goals of Feminism are depopulation, the destruction of marriage as an institution, and the collapse of society. These aren't accidental side affects of the theology, they are the actual goals of it.
Feminism is just the political arm of witchcraft, which is the sin of rebellion against God. God wants humans to create large families and increase population growth. It's the first commandment in the Bible. We see over and over how Satan uses his own theologies to create sinful, decrepit civilizations which focus on the slaughter of the innocent, the reduction of populations, and collapse. See the Amalekites, Canaanites, Egyptians, Greeks, Mayans, Azteks... this stuff always ends up with misery and collapse. It isn't an accident, it was done on purpose.
Men can fall into this thinking as well, we just happen to not live in a society in which men typically do. We live in a society in which it is common and encouraged to invert the family and destroy the family. Young men and women are trained in how to divorce and break up their family from a young age. The churches encourage it overtly. Men can do no right, are always the villain. Women have zero accountability for their bad behavior and there is no accountability for female wickedness. Lying is encouraged for women and promoted while men are expected to accept character assassination and slander while just "trying to be better."
It isn't an accident that the dating market is completely collapsed now. We aren't supposed to be dating anyway, dating is just divorce training. A dating daughter is a father's failure. But we have two and three generations of men raised by women. We have a completely inverted world, we are so far from living healthy at all. The outrage and hurt feelings which masculine women associate with the idea of their man being attractive to other women is just a side affect of all this. Our whole culture is entirely broken.
I know this was hyperbolic, but how did the Biblical societies in the actual Bible fix the situation?
My wife and I have been joking about the answer to this, because it sounds so crazy. I won't answer that now, but just think about the pagan societies surrounding ancient Israel and how the Israelites were told to deal with them! God gave us instructions on how to repair a broken society. It isn't reprogramming camps, but it isn't pretty. It's either drastic measures or complete civilizational failure we're looking at.
I agree with all this until you reach the generational gap to children.
The head of the household needs to figure out what to improve for the well being of everything including the children and himself. That's not necessarily always going to be what the mother wants. This sounds like "happy wife, happy life" which is the recipe for incredible numbers of divorces and a collapsed civilization.
HannahMiller
New Member
Prehaps the real answer is men coming back to God and entirely depending on Him and then women and children would naturally fall into line, cause all they really want is to be loved (not dominated) and looked after.
HannahMiller
New Member
I agree and I am not saying the mother has more authority over the children than the man or that the man has more authority over the woman than God.
That can be true also. Two things can be true.
It looks like I can't DM you yet. I'm really curious - who are you and what brought you to the forum? I don't see any introduction from you. You seem to have appeared out of nowhere and started dropping very thoughtful comments everywhere. I really appreciate your input.
Hi @millennial_mama, I can see from your responses this situation has thrown you into an emotional turmoil. I've seen it and been through it. How did we progress through the confusion and maintain some sense of sanity?? We anchored our thoughts to the Word of God so that our emotions were kept from destroying us. We are told, in Proverbs 3:5-6, Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
What is God telling us here in these verses? He's telling us leaning on our own understanding is at odds with trusting in Him. If you are going to trust in Him, you must know what He says about marriage (along with everything else in life). If you don't know what He says, you will lean on your own understanding.... that's the options. The blessing we receive is Him directing out paths. That directing of our paths includes the idea of straightening and smoothing. We are less likely to trip and fall when we are trusting in Him and He is directing our path.
Let me clarify something for you; it is the sin of adultery for a married woman to become involved with any other man, and the other man also commits adultery by being with a married woman. It is not a sin for a man who has one wife to take another wife. We know this because Jesus said men like Abraham and Jacob would be in the kingdom (Matt. 8:11), but fornicators and adulterers will not (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Take time every day to listen to your husband read the Bible to you and your family. Being well grounded in the Truth will help you think according to the Truth. Shalom and best wishes.
Amen. It's vital to the growth and development of the relationship.
HannahMiller
New Member
Prehaps all of these problems are linked to not knowing how to really be feminine in our appropriate roles, men, women and children. I have been thinking about this. When I was a kid my family and community depended on God, relied on Him, trusted in Him. I remember feeling safe, contained, and could just play and we always knew everything was going to be alright.
Then we moved countries and the community changed, we were alone as a family, my parents struggled, my Father was lost, my mother was overwhelmed, I stopped trusting I was safe, I withdrew for safety, I could only depend on myself, not relax in someone elses care, Cause I felt the burden was to big for them.
The first srep to changing that for me was trusting God again. And now trying to figure out how to be feminine again and relax in being cared for, trust that someone else has got it and just be.
It is true while children are small. Even with sons mothers are in a protecting, teaching role. Those are masculine qualities/traits. When boys get older that relationship flips and they get protective of their mamas.
I read a book with my sisters called Magnetic Femininity. That really helped clarify a lot for me and helped me even in understanding the natural way that women take turns with teaching. I highly recommend it.
HannahMiller
New Member
I have read it also and absolutely loved it! I realised most the things I have often felt guilty for doing, it basically said are actually the things you are meant to be doing, being soft, being playful, resting etc
How old were you when this move between countries happened?
"I stopped trusting I was safe." This is a huge thing to accept and realize.
You expressed a concern about not being dominated, but instead being cared about. What I have learned about relationships after a lifetime of many, many relationships is that generally the woman is trying to dominate the man. Neurotically, feverishly so. She will start out like honey, then slowly begin the process of emasculating and demeaning her male partner. She will be attracted to the masculine man, but she will not be naturally pleased if he remains that way after she has her hooks into him. Then, once she has satisfactorily reduced him through constant abuse, she will no longer be attracted to him and will discard him. This leads to a nation of destroyed men and unhappy women.
In these sorts of relationships, which are the cultural norm, there is a constant struggle for power and respect. The woman wants to be loved but the man cannot give love because the woman is insufferable. The man wants respect and headship but the woman will not grant respect or relinquish headship because she has emasculated her man and he is no longer respectable. They both lose attraction for one another.
My wife calls me her master. She is fully subordinate to me, surrendering to my leadership. We have both been leaders before. We have both had management positions. She is not lesser in value than me. She is not incapable. She was a corporate admin in charge of over thirty scientists and their daily lives. However, in our relationship she relaxes and lets go of those impulses and skills.
Because of this, I'm not constantly struggling to gain respect and wasting both our time and energy in a power struggle over headship. She relinquishes power entirely, and meekly so.
Think about that for a moment. There isn't any "we" about how things are going to go. It's peaceful and cathartic for us both.
But wait! What about me! I make horrible decisions, selfish and shortsighted decisions when I'm left to my own desires. I've been on the streets and completely broke for years at a time living life on my own terms. How does THAT problem suddenly work out???
Because there is someone who trusts me, and isn't fighting over a meaningless ego struggle with me, and is pleasant and wonderful, the stakes are very high. I love this person and want to do the absolute best job that I possible can. Suddenly I have an audience for my performances of life which I actually give a shit about. She isn't insufferable, like 97% of the other women on the planet I've known. She caters to my needs. I'm allowed to focus on my clients, on my infrastructure work, on maintenance and earning. I'm not always stopping to feed myself, or check on my basic needs. This allows me to be a full-throttle provider. And more than that, it makes me DEEPLY DESIRE taking care of her and keeping her safe and happy. Because suddenly now I'm not that broken asshole who was always struggling to be seen and trusted and heard by an endless parade of horrible vain emasculating harpies. Now I am the head of a quickly growing family, with a growing farm and feeding over 70 animals, buying new vehicles and equipment, delegating reasonable chores to my wife as necessary.
Somehow, through all that, we're just living ancient traditional gender roles now. I am working constantly but very happy. She is doing things like going to market and gathering water for us all a few times a week. We have at least one family night out each week, observe the Sabbath very cleanly without stress over it (quite the opposite). And I'm like "wow, I'm not a selfish asshole who's only thinking about being respected and how to take care of himself." That's only because of her grateful willing submission to me in all things. I put her and our children's needs way ahead of my own, and often the animals. My needs are much less than all of their needs.
But I would never suffer disrespect or a fight over emotions again. There's no reason for it. Emotions lie to us. The heart is endlessly vain. If she's unhappy, she can just leave. Life is so much simpler than all that noise. But she IS happy, she conquered her Genesis curse (domination of her man) and I conquered mine (wanting an easy life).
She has no fear attached to me finding another wife or multiple wives. She doesn't want to control and emasculate, she wants a bigger more successful man, not a diminished man. She isn't hurt or embarrassed by me talking to other women because she knows that she is cherished. I'm not looking for another woman because I'm unhappy with her or replacing her, I'm looking for another woman (well, when I am which isn't always) because I love being married and having kids. I'm living a dream life and so is she. I want to have twelve kids, let's goooo.
HannahMiller
New Member
Thank you for sharing all of that. It sounds like you've had quite a journey. I am really pleased your journey is going well. May God bless you and give you as many beautiful children as you can accommodate.
I'm having trouble keeping up on all these comments now. I wish I could reply to all of them. There are a lot of god points being made here. But something I haven't seen mentioned (maybe I missed it) is that husbands should be worthy of their wives's respect. The attitude of "I can do whatever I want because I'm the head of the household" probably isn't the best way to earn that respect. Paul wrote to the Ephesians that we should love our wives as we love our own bodies. In my family, that means my wife's feelings and opinions are prioritized so as not to cause disunion. I may technically have the final authority, but what good is being right if your wife is miserable?
My actions haven't always earned her respect. I started taking our marriage a lot more seriously when my grandpa passed away a few years ago. Just days before he died, he confessed that he had been cheating on my grandma for the entire duration of their marriage. When you see someone reach the end of their life and be filled with nothing but regret, you can never be the same person again.
What really stood out to me in that situation though was realizing that my grandma had known this for the better part of a century and still served him to the end and treated him with respect, despite the fact he never deserved it. I gained such a profound sense of respect for her that day. She's my hero, my model to live like Christ - to love someone who doesn't deserve it.
My actions haven't always earned her respect. I started taking our marriage a lot more seriously when my grandpa passed away a few years ago. Just days before he died, he confessed that he had been cheating on my grandma for the entire duration of their marriage. When you see someone reach the end of their life and be filled with nothing but regret, you can never be the same person again.
What really stood out to me in that situation though was realizing that my grandma had known this for the better part of a century and still served him to the end and treated him with respect, despite the fact he never deserved it. I gained such a profound sense of respect for her that day. She's my hero, my model to live like Christ - to love someone who doesn't deserve it.
Is your wife miserable because you have the final authority?
DO you have the final authority.
The husband absolutely should be worthy of respect, but the respect can't be withheld "because he isn't respectable." That is toxic Feminism. It is the attitude of "I will submit myself to my husband when he is [insert whatever bullshit here]." That is headship inversion.
Nearly the entire point of my previous long post directly before this one is that BECAUSE my wife is submissive and respectful, I perform in a worthy manner. She's not all like "if you xyz then maybe I'll..." No. Rather she teaches other women that she gives me respect simply because I am a man and I am her husband. That is reason enough for her. She teaches other women that she will respect me even if I am selfish, because I have to find grounding and positive direction of my own accord. She can't harass me and emotionally bully me into it, that doesn't work.
You wrote about an attitude of "I can do whatever I want because I'm the head of the household." But what I'm trying to impress upon you is that when the man and his woman (or women) are living Biblically and respecting the hierarchy, with love for each other, there really CANNOT be that attitude at all. "I can do whatever I want" is going to automatically mean "I put my wives and my children's needs ahead of my own."
The man having an attitude of "I can do whatever I want" isn't the head of the household, he's someone struggling to define himself as a man because he is in a conflict with a woman. It's a stubborn attitude. Because my wife is in submission, I can't have a stubborn attitude. It isn't possible. There is no tension and I don't need to prove anything, I just need to be a provider.
We as men can't allow ourselves to become effeminate because a Feminist woman wants us to be "better" which generally means "more like me, a woman." Feminists are always mad at men for not being good enough women. It doesn't take a reeducation camp to not accept that position. Look at the dating market right now. Gen Z and Gen Alpha men are just done with it and won't even approach women anymore. This whole toxic Feminism thing is coming to a head.
I said it earlier, the Bible gives us very clear direction about how to deal with pagan cultures, of which we are one. It isn't pretty but it's God's solution to putting the sin out of our land.
This is an interesting syllogism and worthy of some more discussion.