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My whole world just turned upside down

Everybody has sexual strategy. It is your subconsious evaluation who will be your best partner(s) and how to have make more babies.

So, @Bartato last strategy of convicing everyone that polygyny is proper has failed with threat of losing his wife. Now, his new strategy is keeping wife he has. 🤔

Won't comment religious claims. Whenever are they true or not, my above paragraphs still stand.

Maybe, next time better social skills are needed when trying to get your darling to share. Maybe, maybe it would it would be better idea to build in her desire for sharing, instead of doing intellectual convincing.
 
PeteR said:
@Bartato just because polygyny was your idol does not make it everyone else's idol...
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To illustrate - I have been on this forum for about a decade. I am not actively seeking another wife, but trying to be the best husband I can be to the one I have. That does not mean I reject polygyny - on the contrary, I embrace it, and am completely open to it being in my future. But it is not an idol that I am pursuing to the detriment of my present family. I'm not pursuing it at all - I trust God to expand my family in His timing, if that is His will.

I think when most men discover polygyny is acceptable, they go through a period of over-enthusiasm. It's entirely understandable. I've been there - and you've clearly been there too. It's time to mature and move past that. But that doesn't mean flipping to the opposite extreme.

There is a sensible middle ground that lies between enthusiastic pursuit of polygyny, and opposition of polygyny. It's the middle ground that, in my opinion, most men should sit in. We all have responsibilities today, and should first and foremost be focussed on the work God has for us today - not a hypothetical future.

Matthew 6:33-34:
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Colossians 3:23:
"And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;"
 
FollowingHim said:
There is a sensible middle ground that lies between enthusiastic pursuit of polygyny, and opposition of polygyny. It's the middle ground that, in my opinion, most men should sit in. We all have responsibilities today, and should first and foremost be focussed on the work God has for us today - not a hypothetical future.
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Excellent point. This middle ground would exist and be the natural place for 95% of males if Churchianity and Judaism had not demonized polygyny in the first place. When polygyny is a natural part of life/culture/etc, as it was in Israel throughout the whole of the Bible, it is simply a sidenote in certain circumstances. It is not the bearded lady circus sideshow we see it as today. Normalizing and accepting will take a generation or two to properly return it to accepted norm worthy of no more than a passing glance.
 
FollowingHim said:
Matthew 6:33-34:
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."
Click to expand...
And, for me, this is the main, main focus. I do not believe the Kingdom can properly happen without this critical piece to buttress true patriarchy. I'm passionate not because I want/need a second woman (though admittedly that would be nice to share life with a bigger circle), but because this is the central story, the driving theme, the main thread composing the story of Redemption, the Messiah, Israel, etc...
 
FollowingHim said:
To illustrate - I have been on this forum for about a decade. I am not actively seeking another wife, but trying to be the best husband I can be to the one I have. That does not mean I reject polygyny - on the contrary, I embrace it, and am completely open to it being in my future. But it is not an idol that I am pursuing to the detriment of my present family. I'm not pursuing it at all - I trust God to expand my family in His timing, if that is His will.

I think when most men discover polygyny is acceptable, they go through a period of over-enthusiasm. It's entirely understandable. I've been there - and you've clearly been there too. It's time to mature and move past that. But that doesn't mean flipping to the opposite extreme.

There is a sensible middle ground that lies between enthusiastic pursuit of polygyny, and opposition of polygyny. It's the middle ground that, in my opinion, most men should sit in. We all have responsibilities today, and should first and foremost be focussed on the work God has for us today - not a hypothetical future.

Matthew 6:33-34:
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Colossians 3:23:
"And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;"
Click to expand...
Here you go speaking wisdom again.
I appreciate it.
 
Polygyny for me is building a G-dly Family so we have might have more Light in The World.
Polygyny in my mind should not be about lust and just the desire of flesh.
But we are all human and we fall into sin and we must be strong enough to push that back.
Find G-d and Obey G-d and if you are wanting Polygyny in a G-dly way it will be Blessed.

May G-d Lead Everyone of us in His Path and Love so that we Add Wives not just or our Flesh but for G-d and His Kingdom.

I Fast Every Shabbat and Holy Days this means no intimacy and trying to do more for G-d and not myself.

G-d is my Master and I am the master of my body and my flesh has no power over me.
My Flesh will Obey me and I will Obey G-d in all things.
 
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MemeFan said:
Everybody has sexual strategy. It is your subconsious evaluation who will be your best partner(s) and how to have make more babies.

So, @Bartato last strategy of convicing everyone that polygyny is proper has failed with threat of losing his wife. Now, his new strategy is keeping wife he has. 🤔

Won't comment religious claims. Whenever are they true or not, my above paragraphs still stand.

Maybe, next time better social skills are needed when trying to get your darling to share. Maybe, maybe it would it would be better idea to build in her desire for sharing, instead of doing intellectual convincing.
Click to expand...
I don't think that is the case. I've wimped out and backed down from a fight before (with the elders of the church we attended years ago). I know what that felt like. I was weak, and afraid, but my heart and mind did not change.

My heart really has changed. All that matters is Jesus. If I'm wrong about polygamy, to the right or the left, my Master will eventually set me straight. If my wife leaves me, my friends and family forsake me, He will hold me fast, and I will cling to Him. I want to abide in the Vine and produce good fruit for God. I was very double minded before.

Not everything in this world operates according to the evolutionary biology framework you describe above.

There really is a Man that came down from Heaven who opened the eyes of the blind, and gave Zacheus a new heart. There really is a Man who shines so brightly that He knocked a pharisee off his horse and turned him into an apostle. His sheep will hear His voice and follow Him.
 
PeteR said:
If marriage is to image the Messiah and the Assembly (commonly mistranslated as [Christian] Church) then how is 'submission in ALL things' an incorrect distillation?
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It's not incorrect. I believe wives should be taught to submit to their husbands in all things, and that the husband is their head. I do not believe single women should be told they need a covering.
That being said, there is the case of an unbelieving woman, who is sanctified through her believing husband. This is very generous, a divine generosity. But this case of an unbelieving woman being sanctified through her husband does not imply that women should seek sanctification through their husband. I think it is notable that Paul does not say that the believing woman is sanctified through her husband.
Interestingly, an unbelieving wife who does not submit to her husband in all things (or anything?) would be sanctified through her believing husband. It's really fascinating. I wonder if some women married to a believer would hear this and feel they have found the way to hack the system! (Don't do it or even consider it, Ladies.)
 
Communication said:
It's not incorrect. I believe wives should be taught to submit to their husbands in all things, and that the husband is their head. I do not believe single women should be told they need a covering.
That being said, there is the case of an unbelieving woman, who is sanctified through her believing husband. This is very generous, a divine generosity. But this case of an unbelieving woman being sanctified through her husband does not imply that women should seek sanctification through their husband. I think it is notable that Paul does not say that the believing woman is sanctified through her husband.
Interestingly, an unbelieving wife who does not submit to her husband in all things (or anything?) would be sanctified through her believing husband. It's really fascinating. I wonder if some women married to a believer would hear this and feel they have found the way to hack the system! (Don't do it or even consider it, Ladies.)
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Challenging topic, but in a patriarchal tribal family (the definition of Israel, past, present, future) the woman's connection to the family is through a man, whether father or husband. Outside of that connection, she has no representation in the Assembly. In the Torah, a woman had access to the Passover table ex. 12:40-45ish) without a man, Paul draws on that passage for Gal. 3:28.... ALL other connection, is through a male covering. Old and New Testaments. There is no place for a bunch of uncovered single women... that's like dumping free radicals into an otherwise balanced science experiment. The crazy in the world around us is the direct result of excess uncovered women.

Now, the fault lies w the men who refused to keep patriarchy in place and instead succumbed to feminist pressures. Nevertheless, the solution of Scripture is to cover the women. Isaiah 3 & 4!
 
Communication said:
I do not believe single women should be told they need a covering.
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1 Timothy 5:14-15 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. 15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

Titus 2:4-5 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.


Except for one instance, I have seen no evidence in scripture for your viewpoint. That younger women should not be told they should get married. That one instance was Paul speaking about a certain specific time of trouble where being married would have slowed down a woman from fleeing persecution. It's harder to run when you're 6 months pregnant.

So there are two new testament witnesses showing that young women should be married and busy themselves with care of children and their husband's household.
 
NickF said:
1 Timothy 5:14-15 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. 15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

Titus 2:4-5 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.


Except for one instance, I have seen no evidence in scripture for your viewpoint. That younger women should not be told they should get married. That one instance was Paul speaking about a certain specific time of trouble where being married would have slowed down a woman from fleeing persecution. It's harder to run when you're 6 months pregnant.

So there are two new testament witnesses showing that young women should be married and busy themselves with care of children and their husband's household.
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I'll add to those Scriptures you correctly point to with 1 Cor. 7:2; Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

These are commands for each man and each woman, not good ideas for people to decide on.
 
frederick said:
I'll add to those Scriptures you correctly point to with 1 Cor. 7:2; Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

These are commands for each man and each woman, not good ideas for people to decide on.
Click to expand...
If these are commands for each man why does Paul boast in his singleness a few verses later? It is possible to look at 1 Corinthians 7 in a way that harmonizes what Paul says about his own singleness if we interpret the state of sexual immorality as a general cause that is also a condition.
I think that the burden of resisting sexual immorality can weigh heavier on those who do not have the sexual release that is provided within marriage. Thus, if there is a burden of sexual immorality that a person experiences either because of his own strong internal passions, or because those internal passions, while not extreme, may be greatly influenced by a promiscuous environment (which we most certainly believe existed in Corinth) then a way to "not be led into [undue] temptation" is for "each man his own wife..." I could see God commanding us to take action that puts us out of a situation where we are likely to experience great difficulty resisting temptation.
If it is a command for (let's just focus on a man for a minute) a man to "have his own wife" then what does righteousness look like for a person who is struggling to get a mate? I suppose a portion of a man's energy should be to convince a woman to marry him? To avoid sin, to what extent would that convincing have to go? Do you spend 7 years trying to convince someone, anyone, and then after that what if you still have not fulfilled the command? Do you get a mail order bride, do you hide in the bushes near Shiloh during festival time?
My understanding is that if there is a command that you likely cannot fulfill, you are still expected to do your best to fulfill it. Would that apply here?
I also have some questions about the other verses, but maybe this is enough for a post right now.
 
Bartato said:
I don't think that is the case. I've wimped out and backed down from a fight before (with the elders of the church we attended years ago). I know what that felt like. I was weak, and afraid, but my heart and mind did not change.

My heart really has changed. All that matters is Jesus. If I'm wrong about polygamy, to the right or the left, my Master will eventually set me straight. If my wife leaves me, my friends and family forsake me, He will hold me fast, and I will cling to Him. I want to abide in the Vine and produce good fruit for God. I was very double minded before.

Not everything in this world operates according to the evolutionary biology framework you describe above.

There really is a Man that came down from Heaven who opened the eyes of the blind, and gave Zacheus a new heart. There really is a Man who shines so brightly that He knocked a pharisee off his horse and turned him into an apostle. His sheep will hear His voice and follow Him.
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You have confirm everything I have written. You just don't see it.

Imagine you walk down a street and you see a woman. Your brain will automatically conclude how pretty she, what are your changes, ask itself should you try to approach or not etc.... This is all subconscious. You are not aware of it. For this to stop working your spiritual conversion must include removal of everything connecting with reproduction. I doubt it has resulted in total libido removal.

To see changes in sexual strategy you must pay attention to subtle shifts in your behaviour and attention. Like man without luck in love desiring to find something decent in prettiness and social skills. Now he find himself in enviroment where he surronded with ladies. Now he starts rejecting some ladies, pay way more attention to his ladies with his "physical type", loses interest when some girl shows slutty behaviour etc... Did you notice this man has suddenly become more choosy? Will he notice that fact? No way.

You words that polygyny isn't important to you mean that your sexual strategy has changed. I'm just noticing that in you and telling you that. Why did it change? Well, it is within Lord's power. Did He? Possibly yes, for more I can't claim anything with certaintly.
 
Communication said:
If these are commands for each man why does Paul boast in his singleness a few verses later? It is possible to look at 1 Corinthians 7 in a way that harmonizes what Paul says about his own singleness if we interpret the state of sexual immorality as a general cause that is also a condition.
I think that the burden of resisting sexual immorality can weigh heavier on those who do not have the sexual release that is provided within marriage. Thus, if there is a burden of sexual immorality that a person experiences either because of his own strong internal passions, or because those internal passions, while not extreme, may be greatly influenced by a promiscuous environment (which we most certainly believe existed in Corinth) then a way to "not be led into [undue] temptation" is for "each man his own wife..." I could see God commanding us to take action that puts us out of a situation where we are likely to experience great difficulty resisting temptation.
If it is a command for (let's just focus on a man for a minute) a man to "have his own wife" then what does righteousness look like for a person who is struggling to get a mate? I suppose a portion of a man's energy should be to convince a woman to marry him? To avoid sin, to what extent would that convincing have to go? Do you spend 7 years trying to convince someone, anyone, and then after that what if you still have not fulfilled the command? Do you get a mail order bride, do you hide in the bushes near Shiloh during festival time?
My understanding is that if there is a command that you likely cannot fulfill, you are still expected to do your best to fulfill it. Would that apply here?
I also have some questions about the other verses, but maybe this is enough for a post right now.
Click to expand...
The reason for the command is given in the text; Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. If a person is not tempted by immorality, there is no need to have a spouse.
 
frederick said:
The reason for the command is given in the text; Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. If a person is not tempted by immorality, there is no need to have a spouse.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but since you brought up this verse to support another’s refutation of my comment [that we should not teach that women need to be covered] and you are acknowledging the conditional within that scripture, then maybe we can teach that not all women need to be covered/married.

I don’t know that this is correct, but perhaps telling women who are tempted by immorality that they should marry is correct… but: it would be wrong then to convey command to marry to those who are not tempted by immorality?

My concern is that when we teach something (Group A should do X) and place the force of divine command (based on a claim of scriptural support) upon that teaching, if there is a member of Group A to whom it is not actually a command, then as teachers we have failed that individual. And we have failed those to whom the teaching actually is a command, because they understand the imperative of the command to be motivated by their group inclusion rather than a conditional (like a weakness towards immorality).
 
I think the conversation on "covering" is too important to be buried in this thread, so I've started a new one for it:

Do all women need a "covering"? And what is a "covering"?

This is something that is commonly stated as a fact, but a recent discussion has shown it is not universally accepted as such. I think this would be profitable to tease out. To briefly summarise the points made in that discussion: Expanding this, Yah’s pattern/plan was for every woman to be...
biblicalfamilies.org biblicalfamilies.org
 
FollowingHim said:
To illustrate - I have been on this forum for about a decade. I am not actively seeking another wife, but trying to be the best husband I can be to the one I have. That does not mean I reject polygyny - on the contrary, I embrace it, and am completely open to it being in my future. But it is not an idol that I am pursuing to the detriment of my present family. I'm not pursuing it at all - I trust God to expand my family in His timing, if that is His will.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If a man's priorities are God and family and in that order then God will provide. If that means another wife then so be it.

But God has to come first for the other things to follow.
 
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