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Morality, Competetion Boundaries, and Unbetrothed Women. May the best man win.

NickF said:
The language is normative from my time in Torah groups, that's what I'm basing my interpretation on. If not, then I stand corrected. It's a fair and reasonable assumption to make though.


Secular woman who is betrothed is fair game to "rescue". The subsequent war bride comparison was drawn. Inference is not peaceful but war.

Woman "in Truth" who is engaged is off limits. This is clearly what she wrote and is an obvious comparison.

It is clear that there is a double standard, one for betrothed secular women, and another standard for treatment of betrothed women "in Truth". The Truth is easily presumed to be observance of Torah, it's entirely dense and obtuse to suggest she's talking about Rastafarians or Scientology.

But we can wait for her to let us know if the Truth is keeping Torah or if that also includes the goyim who do not.

My point was that the doctrinal slope was a slippery and dangerous one. It's one I've seen men in Torah groups slide down to where they claim a greater affinity with Muslims than with Christen"dumb" or our perennial favorite the "whore church". And to be careful to avoid such pits.
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I’m sorry but your interpretation is not common among Torah keepers, in fact almost nothing is common among Torah keepers. We disagree about everything.

I think you have applied a negative perspective on what I think was meant to be the biblical perspective that if a non-believer leaves a believer than the believer is not bound.
 
The Revolting Man said:
I’m sorry but your interpretation is not common among Torah keepers, in fact almost nothing is common among Torah keepers. We disagree about everything.

I think you have applied a negative perspective on what I think was meant to be the biblical perspective that if a non-believer leaves a believer than the believer is not bound.
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It's ironic that Torah keepers disagree with each other about everything. You could extend that to "Bible believers" in general, as a wide variety of people claim to believe the Bible, and yet disagree with each other about a variety of issues. 🤔
 
Ruth Elizabeth said:
Am I misunderstanding? You are using betrothed as fianced right? I never heard of the boundary of adultery being betrothal. That is not a given to me.
Unless you are being immoral and fornicating, even if you are betrothed I think you are still fare game. There is nothing immoral about two men pursuing a moral girl. None. Not every girl accepts a proposal actually loving the guy. I knew a guy who invited all of his family and his dying grandma to his surprise proposal. Most girls couldn't say no if they wanted to at that point!
However I think the greatest issue here is dependent upon whether the man or woman are good or not.
Honestly, I think divorce should only be a worst case scenario. Worst case being things like adultery and physical abuse. (I hate how people think of it as an option, you should never go into a relationship thinking divorce is an option. In my opinion you are going into a relationship already contemplating divorce, either re-evaluate your ideas of a relationship or don't get into it.)
But personally I believe that it is far better to repent and not marry an evil man you have been sleeping with than to follow the usual Christian practice of marrying them. If both parties want to repent and try to live better lives then they are probably better off marrying one another. But if he's anything like my best friends spawn of satan boyfriend, or her ex who punched walls so he didn't hit her... Sigh... Some girls just... just have no sense. I love her to death but yeah I did try to convince her out of marrying her boyfriend.
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Betrothal in the Bible was quite a bit different than "engagement" in our modern culture.
 
Bartato said:
Betrothal in the Bible was quite a bit different than "engagement" in our modern culture.
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I agree, engagement in the USA is a temporary promise of a union. Betrothal in scripture IS the union. That's why there's a death penalty for breaking that union of betrothal.
 
NickF said:
I agree, engagement in the USA is a temporary promise of a union. Betrothal in scripture IS the union. That's why there's a death penalty for breaking that union of betrothal.
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A lot of people would see engagement as even less than that. It's more like a plan to marry than a promise to marry.

In the Bible, betrothal seems to be a real marital union that exists, which hasn't been consummated yet.
 
Bartato said:
It's ironic that Torah keepers disagree with each other about everything. You could extend that to "Bible believers" in general, as a wide variety of people claim to believe the Bible, and yet disagree with each other about a variety of issues. 🤔
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I think often times "Torah-Keeper" is used as akin to being a denominational title. It's really more equal to a specific doctrinal position. Keeping the Torah is part of the truth, and just like you have people who believe in polygyny who may have other beliefs wrong, there will be those who are Torah-Keepers but have their own beliefs - which do not necessarily align with the "average Torah-Keeper" or even the truth.

I think that "Torah-Keeper" becomes the thing that many of us identify ourselves as because it is so controversial in other Christian sects. Very similar to how a Baptist taking a second wife will be known by other Baptists as a "Polygynist" (or "heretic") even if the rest of his doctrine stays aligned with typical Baptist doctrine.

Because of the controversy, we are set apart from our group-of-origin. I never really identified myself as a Torah-Keeper until I was called such by others. I have always been raised Christian, Pentecostal. That's the group I considered myself a part of. But it was members of that group that first referred to me as "Hebrew Roots" (in a negative connotation). But I still fail to see what could be negative about being connected to the Law of God or the "Hebrew Roots" of the faith.

MeganC said:
I'm good with that. More bacon for me! :D
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There's still plenty of bacon for us!
 
Michael Moon said:
I never really identified myself as a Torah-Keeper until I was called such by others. I have always been raised Christian, Pentecostal.
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I have adopted Messicostal, just for the fun of it. And it is accurate. 😁
Michael Moon said:
There's still plenty of bacon for us!
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Naw, it just isn’t the same. It’s almost up there with vegan hamburgers.

I also miss shrimp, fresh shrimp tacos from a taco stand on the beach at sunrise in Mexico will remain one of my fondest memories.
 
steve said:
I have adopted Messicostal, just for the fun of it. And it is accurate. 😁

Naw, it just isn’t the same. It’s almost up there with vegan hamburgers.

I also miss shrimp, fresh shrimp tacos from a taco stand on the beach at sunrise in Mexico will remain one of my fondest memories.
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I prefer the beef bacon myself but that may just be because we make it and I enjoy the process.
 
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windblown said:
You must be talking about turkey bacon. 😆

We make beef bacon using only 3 ingredients for at least half the price of pork bacon. It’s freakin fantastic.
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Although I enjoy bacon, I'd also love to try some beef bacon. 😋

Like you said, the turkey stuff isn't very good. It reminds me of eating only egg whites. It is food, and it has protein, but it doesn't quite make a satisfactory breakfast.
 
The Revolting Man said:
Just a reminder, we do not advocate for ot against Torah keeping. So far everyone is talking about their personal experience inside of their personal walk.
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Full disclosure is we observe some Jewish traditions. We'll be doing a Passover Seder this year like we do every year because that's what Jesus and the Apostles were doing in the Upper Room. They weren't just having dinner. The connection between Passover and Easter needs to be emphasized and I wish more people would do so.

We have a Mezuzah on our doorposts. I make hamantaschen for Purim and fill them with preserves I put up from the previous year. Sometimes I make matzoh. When I cook chicken I prepare them in the kosher method with a brine bath because that also prevents salmonella and e. Coli contamination...meaning this tradition has a very practical purpose! ;)

Steve used to wear a prayer shawl with tzitzits on it. We do our best to blow a shofar for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. We'll sometimes have a feast for Sukkot. I should add that when we observe a feast that we have a feast.

All of which is to increase our understanding of Jesus and His ministry. Understanding Jesus and the context of His time and place on earth brings clarity to His Word.
 
MeganC said:
Full disclosure is we observe some Jewish traditions. We'll be doing a Passover Seder this year like we do every year because that's what Jesus and the Apostles were doing in the Upper Room. They weren't just having dinner. The connection between Passover and Easter needs to be emphasized and I wish more people would do so.

We have a Mezuzah on our doorposts. I make hamantaschen for Purim and fill them with preserves I put up from the previous year. Sometimes I make matzoh. When I cook chicken I prepare them in the kosher method with a brine bath because that also prevents salmonella and e. Coli contamination...meaning this tradition has a very practical purpose! ;)

Steve used to wear a prayer shawl with tzitzits on it. We do our best to blow a shofar for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. We'll sometimes have a feast for Sukkot. I should add that when we observe a feast that we have a feast.

All of which is to increase our understanding of Jesus and His ministry. Understanding Jesus and the context of His time and place on earth brings clarity to His Word.
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I've been covering the Old Testament quite a bit lately in my individual Bible reading. I just finished Ezra, and am now studying Nehemiah. Before Ezra was Deuteronomy and Numbers. After Nehemiah, I think I'll study study Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi as they fit historically with Ezra and Nehemiah.
 
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