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Men, how do you feel about the forum?

Men: How do you feel about the atmosphere of the forum?

  • I enjoy it, feel comfortable here, am happy to post anywhere

    Votes: 9 47.4%
  • Slightly offputting, but I'm still happy to engage

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • Not comfortable, don't come here much for that reason

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Very uncomfortable, feel the atmosphere is toxic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Comfortable but don't post much because I am busy

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • Total voters
    19
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And if anything that is being done is clearly not in accordance with His will, do not hesitate to point it out.

I just have one last question tonight: have I recently missed the addition of a new formal member to Biblical Families? Just wondering if Christ Jesus has signed up and is reading these posts. I do know He could do it without having an internet connection, but wouldn't He and our Father be the only ones who could actually authoritatively speak about what is or isn't being clearly done in accordance with His Will?

Who else among us has the absolute authority to point out such things?
 
OK. I'm a bit surprised no one has yet commented, so I'll resume . . . and now that I've completed proofreading this to the point of it being my 8th draft, maybe it's time to just hit 'Post Reply' . . .

I woke up this morning after just 4 hours of deep sleep determined to throw that punk Satan back out beyond the fence where he belongs -- relegated to pulling the strings of the Old Man Types who get sucked into believing their flavor of religion trumps all others. I invited him in, but it really wasn't so much to let him trick me into questioning what is going on here; it was much more that I invited him into my heart to make me doubt myself. Well, the invitation has been rescinded. If I learned anything at all from the magnificent post by @WifeOfHisYouth in another thread yesterday, and I learned so much it will take me some time to adequately participate in the wake of her beatific words, I certainly learned that it is always a mistake when good men back off, so get ready for a different approach on my part.

I believe some of you have been guilty of looking gift horses in the mouth, thinking you have somehow attained some status that allows you to hold judgment over other men in regard to whether you have the right or the authority or the expertise or street cred or whatever to come close to assessing whether your fellow men qualify as being worthy of polygamy or of being good fathers or of being adequate interpreters of Scripture or of whatever. When stark evidence to the contrary of any of those qualities about someone is right in front of you, you'll ignore it, but then you deign to cast aspersions in all the wrong directions, as if it's you who occupies the seat at the right hand of God. As such, perched on your self-erected statues of self-worship, you don't even glean the real gold among you. Along those lines, I will assert this, paraphrasing Neil Young (the rock god of knowing when not to introduce a guitar lick -- not one of my strengths), "Old Man, take a look at my life; I'm a lot like you only wish you could have been!" [I'm not singling myself out here, but I can only speak from my own personal vantage point; there is a personal credo I live by: "You may be right; I may just be a legend in my own mind, but at least I have the résumé to back up the legend." We all have our talents and contributions to make, but there are some among us who have more to contribute than most can comprehend. Am I such a man?; well, that's for you to wrestle with, but you can set me aside if you want. There are others here whose value couldn't possibly be exaggerated, and at least one of those is now gone into what one individual alluded to as hibernation. The shame of that is palpable.

To all of you men who've established yourselves as patriarchs in your families and have wives who already do demonstrate or come close to demonstrating the wisdom and devotion of @Asforme&myhouse's spouse, @WifeOfHisYouth , I am monumentally proud of you (some among you are to whom I refer in the previous paragraph) -- but neither you nor I has the right to judge anyone else's worthiness in the eyes of God or anyone else's interpretation of Scripture, for that matter. If you're gonna throw around terms like "unBiblical" or "in accordance with His will," then I'm coming right back at you, right up until the moment that you throw me off this forum. And please don't think you can hide behind your sacred cows and so-called 'triggers' (the Adversary surely must have a special thrill up his leg for examples of swallowing whole postmodern feminist tropes) or oversensibility about not being fully appreciated for being the True Disciples or Lost Tribes. I've had it. I don't care what religious club one belongs to -- secret handshakes don't provide a Get Out Of Jail Free card. Our God is far too awesome to get boxed into a matched set.

And I'm going to start right here by confronting my own self: @rustywest4, I hereby very formally, and literally down on my knees before Christ our Lord, publicly beg your forgiveness for having called you out publicly. I'm not asserting that my assessment of your situation was off-base; in fact, the warning in the previous paragraph applies to you just as it does to anyone else (including to me, because what some may not realize is how incredibly tough I am on myself; one couldn't possibly lay a glove on me compared to it): if you don't back off on knibbling around my ankles like a mutt no one else wants to admit they don't want around, I'm gonna start responding directly as I probably should have been doing all along, but, hey, better late than never, and my sincere offer to help you actually navigate some solutions to what you're going through stands in full.

By now it's reasonable to wonder if there's anything genuine about my apology, but I can assure anyone that there is: here's what I'm ashamed of, Rusty: that I mistakenly assessed that I was calling you out in the context of a community of men that could stand tall for not only the idea of patriarchy when it's convenient but for doing exactly what needs to be done when a brother is in as much trouble as you're clearly in. My heart weeps for you, actually daily, and that has been what has stayed my hand when I've wanted to come back at you for your petty snide comments, win/lose scorecards and childish hashtags. I've been through something similar enough to what you're going through that my heart cries out for the shame that it is that I haven't established enough credibility with you to give you the benefit of the wisdom I have from having charted a path that got me out on the other side. I'm taking 100% responsibility for the failure of our relationship to flower. If you choose, you can just join me in that failure; if you choose otherwise, I promise to join your commitment to charting your way up and out of your predicament.

And part of taking that responsibility is to acknowledge that I misjudged the environment in which I called you out. I'm now convinced that, if this is ever to become the kind of rock solid fortress of marriage ministry support we say we stand for, we men are going to have to acknowledge that too many among us are far, far too concerned with approval from the world than we are with standing for each other. I let you down, Rusty, because I called you out in an atmosphere in which, instead of being rock solid committed to you not just surviving but prevailing, too many were instead more worried about being cool. And that means I left you out there hanging to dry. I'm deeply ashamed, but I'm thankful now that, when I requested from one of the moderators that he be a witness to me thrashing through this with you in private, he gave me enough of a lukewarm reception that I recognized that what was eventually required was for me to just as publicly apologize as I did call you out.

For my part, I believe it's time to stop acquiescing to the feminine impulse to smooth things over and avoid conflict. I am at this moment, on top of being angry that Zec is gone, far more heartbroken about the disappearance of @JamesA (and my own failure in that regard) than I will ever be about a whole bushel basket of women or their pansy-ass husbands who show up here promoting sensitivity over the male headship value that I thought was inherent in Biblical Families. And, hear me clearly, I'm asserting in no uncertain terms that failure to stand up to antagonistic progressivist sensibilities -- much less bowing down to them for the illusion that we're ministering to them instead of being taken to the cleaners on the altar of virtue signalling for the purpose of being those who might be instrumental in leading the Twittersphere into the glorious polygamous future -- is a failure on our part as men, which by definition entails being a failure for our women. We may be able to create our own little fiefdoms of male patriarchy on some patch of land all by ourselves, but true men would not allow their supposedly-dedicated-to-patriarchy organization be manipulated by women pretending to want some feel-good counseling. The government already provides that teat; what makes us think we can outdo that?

Why am I suddenly reminded of Braveheart?

The Biblical Families Forums are starting to remind me of the cosplay that people have legitimately been making fun of lately -- or civil war reenactments ad nauseam. At least those people know that they're playing dress-up. Here it can sometimes seem like it's just people playing patriarch, my apologies to the many men who are indeed the exception to what I'm saying. Not coincidentally, the true patriarchs among us may be the first to wonder if I'm talking about them, whereas the posers and self-righteous prigs will start off assuming I couldn't possibly be pointing fingers in their direction.

If anyone knows how to successfully reach out to JamesA, I give you permission to give him any and all of my contact information, so I can resume our conversations and apologize to him as well.
 
Accusations are being thrown around of intentions to water down the deep discussions here, even though nobody has suggested doing that at all. This is a straw man that people are imagining, then getting upset about. I completely agree with everyone who has said this would be a terrible idea. And it's not going to happen.

On the advice given to notforme, let me try to get this straight:
Keith posted advice that looked serious but that he actually said "tongue-in-cheek".
Others saw it as poor advice, and dealt with it by replying to correct or tease out the detail of it (@steve, @rockfox, @Verifyveritas76). Then two staff (@Verifyveritas76 and myself) moved the posts elsewhere to limit the damage of that advice on the original person - but did not delete it entirely deliberately because we respect you @Keith Martin, thought you were being serious, and wanted to give you the opportunity to share your views even if they seemed wrong.
Then Keith admitted "I should never have posted what I posted" (on the thread I have now deleted at his request), and deleted the original problematic content from his own post.
And now I have deleted the spinoff thread and posts referring to it.

What's the problem? What is there to be upset about? The whole thing was started by Keith, regretted by Keith, and ended by Keith. And it's finished. We could quibble about how moderators dealt with it, but it seems a completely pointless argument if the whole thing was a mistake to begin with. It had to be dealt with somehow, and was dealt with.

Keith, I thoroughly agree with you on this:
3. Put a short timer on this group self-immolation, releasing us collectively from what can really end up being internally destructive.
I think it is entirely possible to have this conversation in a calm manner that would not be internally destructive. However, it is prompting upset and anger from certain individuals in ways that I honestly cannot understand. I really don't think I'm emotive enough to understand the emotions triggered in others by this. Clearly this discussion is becoming problematic, or being made problematic, and shouldn't go much longer. People are imagining the worst possible scenarios and working themselves into all sorts of knots about their own imaginings.

Nothing fundamental has been changed on the forum, or is being changed.

The point of a discussion like this is to figure out whether there are issues that need correction. We haven't even got clear agreement on that yet. Most people think there are no problems. I'm with @rockfox, and do think there are some issues - but the issues he see would certainly not be solved by making the forum some watered-down feminist paradise. That's really not on the table at all.
 
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The whole mess here, were it all in an individual woman's brain could be explained as a hormonal pile up causing all kinds of trouble. It's harder to understand what's happening here as there are so many involved and those the most upset are not female.

I suggest taking a few minutes to just look at the sunny side and give thanks for blessings and friends. Then maybe get some rest.

Don't overthink it all @FollowingHim you are doing a great job. You cannot please everyone so find some peace.
 
Here's one I prepared earlier...
How does this look for a reorganised forum structure? First 5 sections of the forum main page get shrunk down to these 3 sections.

Start here:
- About the website (current "new website and forum")
- FAQs - Key topics
- FAQs - Other topics

Family life:
- Help! (new subforum, but shift some existing threads to it. Gives an obvious place for anyone to ask for advice with real-world issues, that's not obvious right now)
- Looking for information
- Introductions
- Prayer requests
- Retreats, meetups, local connections
- Health, food and more
- Ladies only
- Gentlemen only
- 25 and under
- Testimonies

Deeper discussion (theology and more):
- Marriage issues
- Family issues
- Singles issues
- Problems and solutions
- Book reviews
- Online outreach
- Biblical issues other than marriage and family
- Messianic Jews / Hebrew Roots Gentiles
- Off topic
- The Best of the Forums

It's not perfect. It's impossible to do this "properly" as we have meat and support threads scattered everywhere, and I'd like to keep Ladies Only and Gentlemen Only together even though in practice one is meaty and the other is not. But with some key mismatched threads moved to different subforums, I think it could work.


I think what you're doing is a great start, but then you run into people like me, all over the place lol, I remember finding the book review and going straight to that almost first, because I was in the process of initiating the love not force with my wife and I was learning and looking for information, and how to be a man, how to be a Godly Man, I'm not saying I wasn't in the first place but when you look at polygyny it opens up a whole new world of manhood in the Holy scriptures.

I know there are some on here who are just overpowering for me. If I may Keith, when someone gives either a short answer or a short reply to something you go into almost... writing a book and for me that's a huge turn off. After meeting you at the retreat I find you to be a pleasant fellow but in some areas you have extremely long answers you almost over do it but like I said that's me and I know everyone is different, the majority of the men might not have a problem with that at all and it could be just me but it's something I'm pointing out since we're on this particular topic about the Forum. I do look forward to meeting up with you and others again at another retreat.

I am one of those people that a conversation has to keep me keep my attention or I just start scrolling. Can anybody else relate with me on that??

On a good positive note for me personally I have not had any issues on the forum, but I will say I have seen some that were questionable, and then I see the moderators kick into action and I'm like wow. I know you all have your hands full and this is a great task and I know I am very thankful for the work that you guys do, and at keeping the forum pretty free from people who try to create havoc.
 
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FollowingHim, my wife and I were just looking at the new look of the Forum home page, the page that shows you everything... start here, family life, deeper discussions, so on and so forth.

For me I vaguely remember what the old look like, but for her she said this is a huge Improvement, because with the old she was like... "where do I start?? but now it is more user-friendly" those are her words.

As for me, I know I definitely like it, it does seem more user-friendly.
 
But how many real marital situations have been helped recently?

Ours -

I have grown personally in my marriage and I find myself in a better place spiritually, then ive been in for a while.

I have been helped to know I am not alone, to give me a sense of community, when going through something that has the potential to be very isolating.

It has given my husband and I the ability to start more conversations, specifically around faith, and plural marriage.
 
I felt that so hard that my theoretical next wife is out there somewhere feeling that and not knowing why.

I'm ashamed to admit this, and my wife is still laughing at me while I'm putting this up. I read your comment and I looked at her and said... I don't get it and she said for reals and I said yes for reals and she started laughing at me, and she tried to explain it to me, bring it down to my level and I mean bring it down, I looked at her with my sad look and said I don't get it.
I literally went back and read your post after writing the last sentence and start laughing and I look at my wife I said his theoretical wife feels my pain correct and she laughs at me and says yes you finally get it and I laugh. I don't know guys is there any hope for me?? I hope you all enjoy a good laugh at my expense.
 
I'm ashamed to admit this, and my wife is still laughing at me while I'm putting this up. I read your comment and I looked at her and said... I don't get it and she said for reals and I said yes for reals and she started laughing at me, and she tried to explain it to me, bring it down to my level and I mean bring it down, I looked at her with my sad look and said I don't get it.
I literally went back and read your post after writing the last sentence and start laughing and I look at my wife I said his theoretical wife feels my pain correct and she laughs at me and says yes you finally get it and I laugh. I don't know guys is there any hope for me?? I hope you all enjoy a good laugh at my expense.

*face palm* :p:po_Oo_O:):) laughing a lot over here.
 
I'm ashamed to admit this, and my wife is still laughing at me while I'm putting this up. I read your comment and I looked at her and said... I don't get it and she said for reals and I said yes for reals and she started laughing at me, and she tried to explain it to me, bring it down to my level and I mean bring it down, I looked at her with my sad look and said I don't get it.
I literally went back and read your post after writing the last sentence and start laughing and I look at my wife I said his theoretical wife feels my pain correct and she laughs at me and says yes you finally get it and I laugh. I don't know guys is there any hope for me?? I hope you all enjoy a good laugh at my expense.
Lol, opposite way around over here normally. I usually don't understand something, and have to get Samuel to dumb it down to explain it to me! I completely understand how you feel!
 
@Keith Martin ... you sure is good with yer words bud.

You know Keith, it would be a bit different if I had posted something in the help/support section, sharing some of my personal life struggles and asking for input or counsel on here... but I have not done that. What I did do was try to post some encouraging/ edifying words on another newer members’ thread a while back by relating to him and saying that I’m going through a similar situation to his. That member was asking for help, and he was sharing details of his private life and struggles.
I prefer to be private about private matters within my household these days.

I’ve told ya twice before and I’ll say it again Keith... I have no desire for any counsel from you. You are free to write all the novels you want on a public forum, but I would appreciate you no longer referencing my private family life.

Biblical Families has provided me with many great friendships over the years. The Lord has brought some awesome men of God into my life that I do receive plenty of wise counsel from. Rest assured I’ll be alright without your expertise partner.

I do not apologize for my ankle biting jesting. And I accept your insincere apology. I will also say that I do think it’s perfectly possible for us to coexist on here without being enemies. I don’t actually have animosity towards you Keith. There are other members on here that I just don’t jive much with either, but we can all still just keep trucking along in fellowship. Not everyone has to be besties. But we are called to genuinely strive towards loving one another in Christ and to live peaceably together.
I’ve heard a couple people that I know personally speak of you in a positive manner.

Shalom
 
Thankyou everyone for your input on this thread. It has been very helpful to understand how everyone sees the current state of the forum, whether anything needs adjustment and what that might be.

Unfortunately, the very existence of such a discussion appears to be giving a small number of individuals the wrong impression that major changes are being made, and is causing these individuals to get worried about the possibility that the forum could go in a direction they disapprove of. Much as I have been careful to dissuade such concerns throughout this discussion, in increasingly clear language, based on conversations I have had elsewhere these concerns appear to remain whatever I say. So, to underline that there is nothing to be concerned about, I am closing the discussion now.

Note that this has nothing to do with the above personal exchange or any other specific content, it is solely for the reason above.

Thanks to everyone who has been involved in this conversation.
 
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