That verse does not include the word we are discussing.
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"Marriages" in Matthew
- Thread starter NickF
- Start date
I'm guessing that you may be closer to reality than one might think. I think it has to do with "highways". And this is where I get into the reality that I'm not sure I want to dig into it because my children might find me with battle armor in a freshly dug foxhole, hugging my AR, mumbling about declensions, tenses, moods, voices... okay, I'm starting to see flashcards in my brain. Yep... I'm bowing out. I learned enough attic Greek to know I know nothing about Greek. I can read it. I can explain some of it. There are so many weird rules that I've long since forgotten. Anyway it is definitely plural: τοὺς γάμους. "the" is plural. I'm just not 100% sure it's plural because it is plural. It might be plural because something else is also plural.
I’m almost certain it cannot be singular in the greek because it’s spelled plural. Also the context of the bridegroom taking 5 virgins and closing the door, the understanding is they are symbolic believers. We are one spirit with Christ as a husband and wife are one flesh. So contextually it’s a plurality of marriage relationships being entered into, plus the word is spelled marriages plural. Both context and spelling indicate plurality.
Words in Scripture being singular or plural matter a whole lot! I'll give you an example to show how important taking note of that difference is. In his epistle to the Galatian saints, Paul presents a rock-solid argument that God fulfilled the promises of the Abrahamic covenant in the person and work of Jesus Christ. He does that in Gal. 3:16 by pointing out the word "seed" is singular NOT plural, "seeds". Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.
There is a simple lesson taught to us here which we would do well to keep in mind; singular is singular, and plural is plural, and the difference matters.
However, before someone sticks the knife in my back, I will point out it is an idiom in Greek that a neuter plural subject usually has its verb in the singular. Keep that in mind as you study.
You can be certain the word translated wedding in Matthew 25:10 is not from a singular Greek word because, as you say, it is spelled plural. And @NickF you will also see the definite article is the same case gender and number as the noun; masculine accusative plural so the article and noun match - as they must.
Right. My point is a difference in word choice based on gender (to allow for poly understanding).
Translator bias explains the common use of 'own' in that passage. Similarly, translator presuppositional bias toward monogamy causes 'weddings' to be translated as 'wedding' because they can't conceive of Yeshua/Jesus having multiple brides.
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To the latter portion: You could definitely be correct. Though Greek is a nasty monster IMHO and it could also be something else entirely--like what I had mentioned above. It's definitely a good thing to challenge and question though! All of the prohibitions against polygyny that Christiandom quotes from the NT do the exact opposite when you look at the Greek. It's just that Greek is... a nasty monster and just when you think you have something figured out, there's some other case you didn't know about. Attic Greek is the most complicated language I've ever attempted to learn. Koine is simpler but it's still Greek.
Again from Wycliffe's 1385 translation...
Mat 22:1 And Jhesus answeride, and spak eftsoone in parablis to hem,
Mat 22:2 and seide, The kyngdom of heuenes is maad lijk to a kyng that made weddyngis to his sone.
Mat 22:3 And he sente hise seruauntis for to clepe men that weren bode to the weddyngis, and thei wolden not come.
Mat 22:4 Eftsoone he sente othere seruauntis, and seide, Seie ye to the men that ben bode to the feeste, Lo! Y haue maad redi my meete, my bolis and my volatilis ben slayn, and alle thingis ben redy; come ye to the weddyngis.
Mat 22:5 But thei dispisiden, and wenten forth, oon in to his toun, anothir to his marchaundise. But othere helden his seruauntis, and turmentiden hem, and slowen.
Mat 22:7 But the kyng, whanne he hadde herd, was wroth; and he sente hise oostis, and he distruyede tho manquelleris, and brente her citee.
Mat 22:8 Thanne he seide to hise seruauntis, The weddyngis ben redi, but thei that weren clepid to the feeste, weren not worthi.
Mat 22:9 Therfor go ye to the endis of weies, and whom euere ye fynden, clepe ye to the weddyngis.
Mat 22:10 And hise seruauntis yeden out in to weies, and gadriden togider alle that thei founden, good and yuele; and the bridale was fulfillid with men sittynge at the mete.
Mat 22:11 And the kyng entride, to se men sittynge at the mete; and he siye there a man not clothid with bride cloth.
Mat 22:12 And he seide to hym, Freend, hou entridist thou hidir with out bride clothis? And he was doumbe.
Mat 22:13 Thanne the kyng bad hise mynystris, Bynde hym bothe hondis and feet, and sende ye him in to vtmer derknessis; there schal be wepyng and grentyng of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many ben clepid, but fewe ben chosun.
Mat 22:1 And Jhesus answeride, and spak eftsoone in parablis to hem,
Mat 22:2 and seide, The kyngdom of heuenes is maad lijk to a kyng that made weddyngis to his sone.
Mat 22:3 And he sente hise seruauntis for to clepe men that weren bode to the weddyngis, and thei wolden not come.
Mat 22:4 Eftsoone he sente othere seruauntis, and seide, Seie ye to the men that ben bode to the feeste, Lo! Y haue maad redi my meete, my bolis and my volatilis ben slayn, and alle thingis ben redy; come ye to the weddyngis.
Mat 22:5 But thei dispisiden, and wenten forth, oon in to his toun, anothir to his marchaundise. But othere helden his seruauntis, and turmentiden hem, and slowen.
Mat 22:7 But the kyng, whanne he hadde herd, was wroth; and he sente hise oostis, and he distruyede tho manquelleris, and brente her citee.
Mat 22:8 Thanne he seide to hise seruauntis, The weddyngis ben redi, but thei that weren clepid to the feeste, weren not worthi.
Mat 22:9 Therfor go ye to the endis of weies, and whom euere ye fynden, clepe ye to the weddyngis.
Mat 22:10 And hise seruauntis yeden out in to weies, and gadriden togider alle that thei founden, good and yuele; and the bridale was fulfillid with men sittynge at the mete.
Mat 22:11 And the kyng entride, to se men sittynge at the mete; and he siye there a man not clothid with bride cloth.
Mat 22:12 And he seide to hym, Freend, hou entridist thou hidir with out bride clothis? And he was doumbe.
Mat 22:13 Thanne the kyng bad hise mynystris, Bynde hym bothe hondis and feet, and sende ye him in to vtmer derknessis; there schal be wepyng and grentyng of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many ben clepid, but fewe ben chosun.
Fascinating. I never noticed thatIn Matthew 22 Jesus gives a parable about "a certain King which makes marriages for his son". And He then goes on in chapter 25 to give another parable, this time illustrating Himself being betrothed to 10 virgins, 5 wise and 5 foolish. Only 5 of them make it in to the "marriages" where the door is shut.
The Greek word for "marriage feast, marriage, wedding - Gamos" is the masculine accusative plural 6 times. Why would Jesus, THE WORD use the wrong form of this word and say it was a plural number of marriages in both of these parables if marriage to more than one woman concurrently was anything other than good? Does God illustrate Himself as being a sinner? Can he even do so considering by definition, He IS righteousness? I submit He cannot sin, and cannot even portray Himself as being less than perfect. Because He is Truth, and He IS perfect by definition.
If Jesus himself used a plural word to describe how many marriages he was lined up for, then being Christlike includes plural marriage by necessity.
γάμους — 6x G1062 γάμος
Showing Results For:
TR
N-APM
- N-APM (6x) Noun accusative plural masculine
Occurrences:6 times in 6 verses
Speech:Noun
Parsing:Accusative Plural Masculine
Mat 22:2 - The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage (marriages) G1062 for his son,
Mat 22:3 - And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding (weddings): G1062 and they would not come.
Mat 22:4 - Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage (marriages). G1062
Mat 22:9 - Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage (marriages). G1062
Mat 25:10 - And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage (marriages): G1062 and the door was shut.
Luk 14:8 - When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding (weddings), G1062 sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
γάμων — 1x G1062 γάμος
Showing Results For:
TR
N-GPM
- N-GPM (1x) Genitive Plural Masculine
Occurrences:1 time in 1 verse
Speech:Noun
Parsing:Genitive Plural Masculine
Luk 12:36 - And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding (weddings); G1062 that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
This along with 4 witnesses in the OT of God the Father having 2 wives ends the discussion on whether or not Polygyny is acceptable before God.
I'd love to hear more thoughts on this, expound upon this please! @frederick this is what I was talking about in the other thread. Figured I wouldn't derail it any more than I already had. I'd love to hear any of the geeky scholarship stuff on this subject. It gives me the technical scholarly information to combat untruth in those who highly respect scholarship.
Thanks all!
Look like archaic form of plural.
@Frank S Can you check few examples where we know singular is correct? Wedding in Cane?
And, notably, that translation predates the Council of Trent...
I haven't had opportunity to spend a lot of time checking but it appears YLT, although a recent translation work, is consistent with the singular and plurals regarding marriage/weddings.
YLT is fun to read because it renders the Greek verbs in the correct tenses as well. Also instead of saying "forever" it will read "to the end of the age"
Significant in many aspects.
Wycliffe always uses that form, which looks to us like a plural. John 2:1-2 states "And the thridde dai weddyngis weren maad in the Cane of Galilee; and the modir of Jhesu was there. And Jhesus was clepid, and hise disciplis, to the weddyngis." So unfortunately this mightn't be as good as it initially appeared.
Another example: Esther 2:18 in Wycliffe refers to the "weddyngis of Hester" (Esther). That is a single wedding, but referred to using the word "weddyngis"
The only times I can see that he uses the words "weddynge" or "wedding" are in Matthew 24:38 and Hebrews 13:4 - where it is a verb, and other translations render it "marrying" or "marriage". Is he using "weddyngis" as the noun and "weddynge" as the verb?
Looks like YLT is the only translation that renders the plurals & singulars correctly.
Good question. As evident in the reply from @FollowingHim, Mr. Wycliffe unfortunately did not distinguish between what is obviously a single or plural word re wedding / weddings in Greek. Not helpful.
Here is a curious thing. When putting the Greek of Matthew 25:10 into Google translate, and if only part of the verse is entered, "weddings" plural is rendered in English. If the whole verse is entered, it is changed to "wedding" singular. I'm wondering if when it's the whole verse Google AI recognizes the verse and translates it in the traditional way, or is there something going on demanded by Greek grammar that isn't immediately obvious? Opinions anybody?
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Google's AI is trained using the Bible (among many other texts), but the Bible is foundational as it has been translated into so many different languages. There are not that many texts that you can feed into the AI that have both an ancient Greek and an English translation, so a large proportion of the data in the system for that particular translation is from the Bible.
So the AI has therefore been already given that specific verse in Greek, and the specific English translation, and knows to translate that word as "wedding" in that context. Because that's exactly what it's been told to do.
Essentially, it's circular reasoning.
Google cannot give an independent translation of anything in the Bible, as it's not independent and it's not intelligent. In that specific case, it's just repeating by rote what other people have written.
I come back to what I said before. LOL. Highly likely that something before that conjunction-- kai (and)--is altering the direct object (wedding). Greek is weird. Notice that the first noun of the sentence is plural. Just like the first noun in the other verse was plural (highways). Also notice that this appears to only be happening when there is a plural noun, then a conjunction, then the plural form of wedding that is being translated as singular. The places where wedding is translated as a singular is where the noun isn't in conjunction with more text. Anyway, I'm trying to point y'all in the right direction without spending the next ten years of my life learning Greek. haha. In two years I learned enough to know I know nothing about Greek and it would likely take the rest of my life to actually learn it. Send an email to a Greek professor at a university. They'd probably love to explain to you why it is plural--they're lonely people.
**addition** could also be because the sentence is to "them" plural in both cases. They are supposed to go out on the highways. In the second case "They" also are doing something.
That makes sense to me.