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March 2025 Biblical Families Newsletter - 5 Questions

nathan

nathan

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I thought Jacob's article in the newsletter was so good, though perhaps provoking on some points, that we should have a thread to discuss it.
Newsletter should be in your email! (everyone who signs up at the forum gets added to the newsletter with that email.)

But here it is too: https://campaign-statistics.com/browser_preview/eZQWN5-k5Wv6nJ-4fzHxz
 
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Brenna said:
Can someone please tell me how far from Atlanta airport this retreat is?
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It's about 40 min / 30 miles. It's possible you could get a ride from someone, but I can't promise that until we knew flight times, and it was a little closer to date.
 
Beautiful article

Let’s start with #1
Why do I desire plural marriage? Why do I desire marriage at all? Both as a man or a woman.

My first response is, “Must there be a spiritual component to justify desiring plurality?” Could it just come down to enjoying companionship and wanting more of it? Is a desire to engage in more carnal knowledge a bad thing?

Could it start with basic human desires?
 
frederick said:
Like... more boobs to play with..?? Yeah, I would agree with that since that was one of the motivations for marriage in the first place. However, I enjoyed teaching the Bible and the women God gave me enjoyed learning so we're good matches.
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But what came first, the chicken or the egg?

I would propose that a natural desire to be closer to the opposite sex is not a bad place to start. I don’t want to over spiritualized a basic human desire God gafe us.

I liken it to desire for food. It’s innate. It’s for our survival. However, the spiritual aspect comes in when we choose what and how to eat. Even if one doesn’t adhere to Torah dietary laws, it would not be wise to eat food offered up to idols.

Once a man realizes he has a desire for one or more companions, he then has to study scripture to figure out the full implications of who and what and how it’s all appropriate to join with.

Am I wrong?

Anybody else interested in joining this besides @frederick ?
 
Mojo said:
But what came first, the chicken or the egg?
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There may be a difference depending on a person's spiritual background. For those who have grown up under sound biblical teaching, they will have a better spiritual foundation and reason for marriage. For others, it will be more carnal. But it doesn't matter what motivates a person to do the right thing.

Mojo said:
Once a man realizes he has a desire for one or more companions, he then has to study scripture to figure out the full implications of who and what and how it’s all appropriate to join with.
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I disagree, marriage is marriage. It's no different whether it's a first or fifth, it just gets more difficult to find consenting women after the first.
 
frederick said:
There may be a difference depending on a person's spiritual background. For those who have grown up under sound biblical teaching, they will have a better spiritual foundation and reason for marriage. For others, it will be more carnal. But it doesn't matter what motivates a person to do the right thing.


I disagree, marriage is marriage. It's no different whether it's a first or fifth, it just gets more difficult to find consenting women after the first.
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I think you misunderstood me, or maybe I misunderstand you.
I said ONE or more. I’m agreeing with you, I think.

If a man sees someone he desires (whether a first or tenth) would he not be wise to figure out if that person is 1) biblically eligible 2) a true believer 3) overall compatible for his kingdom vision? It would be unwise to be unequally yoked (with 1, 2, or 3...)
 
Mojo said:
If a man sees someone he desires (whether a first or tenth) would he not be wise to figure out if that person is 1) biblically eligible 2) a true believer 3) overall compatible for his kingdom vision? It would be unwise to be unequally yoked (with 1, 2, or 3...)
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Yes, I agree.

I misunderstood you. My bad. Cheers
 
#2
Do I desire to reflect the Heavenly King and His perfect church or an earthly king and a people who demonstrate earthly liberty?

This is important in marriage (mono or plural) and it gets lost in many of the ultra macho patriarchal discussions. There’s much to say about our approach to leading our homes and wives. Are we lovingly pointing them to ever increasing service and closeness to our Savior, which can be hard work, or are we focused on our personal projects and desires, because we’re the king of the castle?
 
Mojo said:
#2
Do I desire to reflect the Heavenly King and His perfect church or an earthly king and a people who demonstrate earthly liberty?

This is important in marriage (mono or plural) and it gets lost in many of the ultra macho patriarchal discussions. There’s much to say about our approach to leading our homes and wives. Are we lovingly pointing them to ever increasing service and closeness to our Savior, which can be hard work, or are we focused on our personal projects and desires, because we’re the king of the castle?
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That is an interesting thought... Wives are to be our helpers. Not God's. Ours. So, if you are wanting them to be focused on doing God's work, then it is up to us as the leaders to do more of God's work. Our wives then, as our helpers would be more or less involved in doing God's work according to what we ourselves are focused on.

Thoughts?
 
Mojo said:
But what came first, the chicken or the egg?

I would propose that a natural desire to be closer to the opposite sex is not a bad place to start. I don’t want to over spiritualized a basic human desire God gafe us.

I liken it to desire for food. It’s innate. It’s for our survival. However, the spiritual aspect comes in when we choose what and how to eat. Even if one doesn’t adhere to Torah dietary laws, it would not be wise to eat food offered up to idols.

Once a man realizes he has a desire for one or more companions, he then has to study scripture to figure out the full implications of who and what and how it’s all appropriate to join with.

Am I wrong?

Anybody else interested in joining this besides @frederick ?
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I think this is a really good point!
 
Man_in_the_Middle said:
So, if you are wanting them to be focused on doing God's work, then it is up to us as the leaders to do more of God's work.
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This is one of those areas where a clear understanding of "God's work" needs to be established early on. The potential for conflict, if there is a difference in understanding what this practically involves, seems high to me. I've encountered guys who are having problems because the wife is off doing some "ministry" things and not focusing on her responsibilities with home and family. The mandate to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth hasn't been rescinded, as far as I can read. Why then are there so many "Christian" homes with only a few, if any, children? Where in the Bible does it say a career is more to be desired than loving their husbands, loving their children, being discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the Word of God may not be blasphemed?
**Steps down from soap box**
 
Man_in_the_Middle said:
That is an interesting thought... Wives are to be our helpers. Not God's. Ours. So, if you are wanting them to be focused on doing God's work, then it is up to us as the leaders to do more of God's work. Our wives then, as our helpers would be more or less involved in doing God's work according to what we ourselves are focused on.

Thoughts?
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Excellent point.

With a few exceptions (i.e. leadership, male specific ministries, etc) there really is no reason why entire families can’t be involved in kingdom work together. Since I’ve been married, nearly all of my ministry work has always included my wife, then later, my kids. Even when she ministers to the women of our congregation, she uses me as editor of her bible devotions to make sure she’s got correct doctrine and theology.

It’s kingdom teamwork.
 
frederick said:
This is one of those areas where a clear understanding of "God's work" needs to be established early on. The potential for conflict, if there is a difference in understanding what this practically involves, seems high to me. I've encountered guys who are having problems because the wife is off doing some "ministry" things and not focusing on her responsibilities with home and family. The mandate to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth hasn't been rescinded, as far as I can read. Why then are there so many "Christian" homes with only a few, if any, children? Where in the Bible does it say a career is more to be desired than loving their husbands, loving their children, being discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the Word of God may not be blasphemed?
**Steps down from soap box**
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I was at a missions conference once. Somehow, the topic of biblical submission came up during the QA. There were some single missionary ladies there. They were asked how they would approach this if they were to ever marry, seeing they had been ministering single for a while.

At least one of them was honest. She said that it would be difficult because she would be wondering if God was speaking to her about a different leading than what her husband felt he was being led to. It spoke volumes about her in one brief statement.
 
Mojo said:
she would be wondering if God was speaking to her about a different leading than what her husband felt he was being led to
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Most women nowadays are with Miriam;

2And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us?
They don’t recognize what Paul said as legitimate;

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

They believe that both husband and wife stand equally before Yahweh.
 
3) Am I or are we counting the cost?

In today’s nutty society that has long ago thrown off the veneration of biblical marriage and families, it’s tremendously hard to be married...period. Very few people in Christian circles even understand what biblical marriage is about. At best, they are egalitarian, but most are outright living a “happy life, with a happy wife”. (Insert fingernails on chalkboard). Eyebrows are raised when we come around. Wives try to convince my wife to come the dark side with them. It actually becomes quite amusing.

I’ve never been plural, so I can’t begin to comment on it, other than from meeting some of you and seeing the conversations on this forum. But, I assume it’s exponentially worse. Living a biblical, patriarchal marriage is seen as cultish with most folk we know. I presume it’s exponentially worse with those of you living plural.

But, we stick with the vision. We stay on the path God has laid out.

Comments from the plural folks?
 
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