• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Meat Living in Marriage/Covenant or Fornication? - Real world situation/problem

H

HomesteadWife

Member
Real Person*
Female
Hello All,

I have been reading all of the discussion threads which relate to what constitutes a marriage that are currently happening. They are all blurring together a bit for me, so instead of this getting buried on a comments section I decided to create a new post.

I wanted to propose a real life situation example for everyone to address. Instead of just working in theoreticals, what advice would you give to a woman in the below scenario so she would not be living in sin. Answers should be based on your understanding of what marriage is or is not.

Note: This is NOT MY issue, (happily married here) but its someone I know.

Suppose a woman comes to you asking for counsel.
Here is her situation: “I became saved after already living in sin with the father of my now two children. We are still not married. Since becoming saved, I have seen and learned why God wants us to be married before having children and living together. My partner, however, is not a believer and doesn’t see the need to ‘rush into’ getting married even though I want to honor God and do so. How do I handle this? He is a great father and I don’t see leading him to Christ by breaking apart our family?”

Is this woman biblically married, or living in fornication?

For being biblically married/covenant:
Does the fact they had sex mean they are married?
Does the fact they have children together mean they are married?
Does the fact that the husband is supporting his family, raising his kids, and having and is sexually exclusive with this woman (as her only sexual partner) constitute a marriage/covenant?

Or if in Fornication:
Are they living in fornication due to the fact that the man does not consider them to be married?
Are they living in fornication because they don't have a recognized marriage by the church/state?
If they are living in fornication should the wife stay with the man or leave him as she would be living in a state of sin?

If they separated:
Would the children belong to the man or woman if they are not technically married?

I am sure there are other questions that can be addressed but I wanted to throw some out there.

And GO!
 
Last edited:
HomesteadWife said:
Hello All,

I have been reading all of the discussion threads which relate to what constitutes a marriage that are currently happening. They are all blurring together a bit for me, so instead of this getting buried on a comments section I decided to create a new post.

I wanted to propose a real life situation example for everyone to address. Instead of just working in theoreticals, what advice would you give to a woman in the below scenario so she would not be living in sin. Answers should be based on your understanding of what marriage is or is not.

Suppose a woman comes to you asking for counsel.
Here is her situation: “I became saved after already living in sin with the father of my now two children. We are still not married. Since becoming saved, I have seen and learned why God wants us to be married before having children and living together. My partner, however, is not a believer and doesn’t see the need to ‘rush into’ getting married even though I want to honor God and do so. How do I handle this? He is a great father and I don’t see leading him to Christ by breaking apart our family?”

Is this woman biblically married, or living in fornication?
Click to expand...



HomesteadWife said:
For being biblically married/covenant:
Does the fact they had sex mean they are married?
Does the fact they have children together mean they are married?
Does the fact that the husband is supporting his family, raising his kids, and having and is sexually exclusive with this woman (as her only sexual partner) constitute a marriage/covenant?

Or if in Fornication:
Are they living in fornication due to the fact that the man does not consider them to be married?
Are they living in fornication because they don't have a recognized marriage by the church/state?
If they are living in fornication should the wife stay with the man or leave him as she would be living in a state of sin?

If they separated:
Would the children belong to the man or woman if they are not technically married?

I am sure there are other questions that can be addressed but I wanted to throw some out there.

And GO!
Click to expand...

1st: “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” But if you had never married neither of you are not committing adultery/fornication.
2nd: You might have become One Flesh with him, but (Just saying) if he leaves you as Paul states that you are free to remarry as he is a non believer.
 
AbrahamSolomon said:
1st: “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” But if you had never married neither of you are not committing adultery/fornication.
2nd: You might have become One Flesh with him, but (Just saying) if he leaves you as Paul states that you are free to remarry as he is a non believer.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify your belief on the 1st part of you response. What are your understandings of what constitutes Adultery and fornication?

My understanding is that Adultery can only happen if a married/covenanted woman has sex outside of her husband. Thus the woman's status is what determines adultery.

Whereas fornication involves single/non covenanted couple having sex prior to marriage or betrothal. Among other things.
 
HomesteadWife said:
Just to clarify your belief on the 1st part of you response. What are your understandings of what constitutes Adultery and fornication?

My understanding is that Adultery can only happen if a married/covenanted woman has sex outside of her husband. Thus the woman's status is what determines adultery.
Click to expand...

Yes


HomesteadWife said:
Whereas fornication involves single/non covenanted couple having sex prior to marriage or betrothal. Among other things.
Click to expand...

I think you might fall under this and I don't believe you are in sin.
Concubine: a wife or sexual partner of secondary status (Covenant) No
Because you are not a Wife under a Covenant.
a woman who lives with a man but has lower status than his wife or wives.

But is treated as a Wife.
 
AbrahamSolomon said:
Yes




I think you might fall under this and I don't believe you are in sin.
Concubine: a wife or sexual partner of secondary status (Covenant) No
Because you are not a Wife under a Covenant.
a woman who lives with a man but has lower status than his wife or wives.

But is treated as a Wife.
Click to expand...
Also to be clear, this is an example of someone I know, not myself personally.
 
HomesteadWife said:
Also to be clear, this is an example of someone I know, not myself personally.
Click to expand...
Okay, either way it seem they are not sinning.
She has placed herself under servitude to him and very much like a husband must Obey him.
Expect if he ever leaves she is free to marry.
 
HomesteadWife said:
Suppose a woman comes to you asking for counsel.
Here is her situation: “I became saved after already living in sin with the father of my now two children. We are still not married.
Click to expand...
Oh, yes, you are. (Unless, arguably, it "only whoring." Be honest...)

So, now, 'study, to show yourself approved,' and figure out what to do from here.


PS> The word 'fornication' is an English concoction, brewed from xtianity. The concept does not exist in the original Hebrew.

And this is a repetition, but there is NOWHERE, not EVER, where a man of Yah EVER asked for a license from a 'competent authority' to take a wife... UNLESS that meant the three fathers involved...
 
Last edited:
Mark C said:
Oh, yes, you are. (Unless, arguably, it "only whoring." Be honest...)

So, now, 'study, to show yourself approved,' and figure out what to do from here.


PS> The word 'fornication' is an English concoction, brewed from xtianity. The concept does not exist in the original Hebrew.

And this is a repetition, but there is NOWHERE, not EVER, where a man of Yah EVER asked for a license from a 'competent authority' to take a wife... UNLESS that meant the three fathers involv
Click to expand...
Note: This situation is not MINE (happily married here), but someone whom I know.

If the word fornication doesn't exist in the original Hebrew, what does belong in the verses that are translated with it?
 
HomesteadWife said:
the word fornication doesn't exist in the original Hebrew, what does belong in the verses that are translated with it?
Click to expand...
The Greek word is porneia, it means prohibited sexual acts. It’s basically a reference to all of Biblical sexual law.

Your friend is married. Paul instructs her to be a good wife to the non-believing husband but if he leaves he then she’s not bound.
 
HomesteadWife said:
Here is her situation: “I became saved after already living in sin with the father of my now two children. We are still not married. Since becoming saved, I have seen and learned why God wants us to be married before having children and living together. My partner, however, is not a believer and doesn’t see the need to ‘rush into’ getting married even though I want to honor God and do so. How do I handle this? He is a great father and I don’t see leading him to Christ by breaking apart our family?”
Click to expand...

"Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called." 1 Cor 7:20
 
HomesteadWife said:
If the word fornication doesn't exist in the original Hebrew, what does belong in the verses that are translated with it?
Click to expand...
The verses generally translated to use the word refer to the Greek word, porneia, which is generally a catch-all for multiple forms of 'sexual sin'. (The problem is conflation, but most of 'xtianity' now also conflates the concept of any "unlicensed sex" into the mix.)

In general, the actual prohibitions appear in a number of places, including obviously Exodus 20 ("lo tinaf" - 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' - which by definition involves a man taking the wife of another), and much of Leviticus 18, where the list of prohibited relations now usually termed "incest" in English are specified, and things like male homosexuality, which arguably includes 'sodomy' at minimum, bestiality, and "cross-dressing". (Gotta ask: How much MORE so cutting off the breasts and genitalia?)

Prostitution, or whoring, is referenced in a number of places.

But those are the specifics.

As I mentioned, "sex without a license from Big Brother" (or any other pretender to His Throne) is not among them.
 
MemeFan said:
She should do as Holy Ghost says.
Click to expand...
The problem is, so many who come to an 'altar call' haven't been taught to "test the spirits," and don't know His Word well enough to recognize deception. (Hosea 4:6 - the WHOLE verse. Note that the word in the second part that often gets left out is actually 'torah!')

The Real Ruach won't tell people to violate His Word, any more than Yahushua did. (Matthew 5:17-19)

As I often note, there are too many people out in the world today "who think they're listening to a spirit, but it sure as hell ain't HOLY."
 
Here is a real world example of the problems created by Christendom teaching that a government issued license is what makes a marriage, people legitimately both consider and act upon false notions of what makes a marriage and of living in sin, and then go and actually sin to "solve" it. (Not saying your friend will or did, but using other examples).

Without speaking to the man, I won't judge his reasons for not wanting a state license, there can be good reason for that... but if he considers her "his woman", provides food shelter and marital rights to her, takes care of his children from her... where is the "sin" that needs to be addressed?

What would having a state issued license change other than the opinions of others as to the legitimacy of their marriage, opinions that have no bearing on what God thinks of it?
 
MeganC said:
When the Holy Ghost says something to you then you'll know.
Click to expand...

When my first wife left me I was a broken man with my heart ripped out and I became numb.
I cried out to G-d begging G-d to Provide me and Her a way, I read till G-d said to me "Take another wife and allow the other to return"
I said "?" How can I have more than one wife? Then I dug really deep and found not only was it allowed but G-d Gave men multiple Wives.

Always Fact Check before we just follow because it might not be G-d.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top