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January 20th 2025 - Donald Trump is BACK!

Mojo said:
What weighs heavier on the scale, justice or peace? I think there’s a great argument for both.
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Last week's Torah portion was the story of Pinchas, aka 'Phineas,' and the Midianite women. (I am forbidden to put up the link, since it includes the dreaded T-word, but I encourage those interested to hear the discussion.)

The 'men of Israel' were engaged in open rebellion to YHVH (and 'in-His-face' idolatry, for which a number had just been hung.)

And this fellow, who was a Kohen, (actually Aaron's grandson) took a spear, and committed "murder" - by chucking it straight through Zimri and Cosbi, "en flagrante delecto."

"And the plague was stayed." But not until 24,000 people had died!

And for that act of admitted violence, good ole Pinchas was awarded the "eternal Covenant of Peace," by none other than YHVH Himself!

Ponder the implications.


....Just maybe, sometimes people claim, "peace, peace," when there IS no peace...

And when there is no justice in the land, judgment looms.
 
steve said:
What immediately came to mind is “Peace at any price”.

No.
If an example is not made of the people who perpetrated this situation it will continue forever and we will never have peace.

Yah required justice from rulers, but forgiveness from individuals. Don’t confuse the two.
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I’m not advocating for zero justice to keep peace. I’m just asking people to consider “justice, at what price?”

You can prosecute the underlings and give them the firing squad. I just want us to tread much more carefully when it comes to the office of the presidency. Remember, even David respected Saul and God’s anointed enough to spare his life until he died at his own hand.
 
The office of the Presidency has been utterly reduced to menstrual rags. It could not get any more debased, EXCEPT by letting Treason stand.

Likewise, the FBI, and "courts" - and most TLAs - are not worthy of ANY faith or trust. They will stay that way unless they stand up and actually do WHAT IS RIGHT.

And Saul was anointed by YHVH, via the Prophet Samuel. Obama was definitely NOT. (But, I won't argue that he was anointed by the Other Thing.)
 
Reagan had so much respect for the Oval Office that he would not enter it without his suit coat on.
It, along with the office of the Presidency has been, as Mark said, debased since then.
How does it become respected again?

I’m reminded of a line in one of The Duke’s movies “If you are not going to respect your elders, you WILL respect your betters” before beating the snot out of him.
So what I’m saying is that if people won’t respect the Office, the alternative is that they fear disrespecting it.

But I’m sure that hanging isn’t the only option, one alternative is that the Kenyan admits the truth about his citizenship and is declared to have never been president. Stripped of his ill gotten gains and sent back to Africa. (Trump signed an order in his first term making certain pedo crimes eligible for removal of all assets from perpetrators)
 
Mark C said:
The office of the Presidency has been utterly reduced to menstrual rags. It could not get any more debased, EXCEPT by letting Treason stand.

Likewise, the FBI, and "courts" - and most TLAs - are not worthy of ANY faith or trust. They will stay that way unless they stand up and actually do WHAT IS RIGHT.

And Saul was anointed by YHVH, via the Prophet Samuel. Obama was definitely NOT. (But, I won't argue that he was anointed by the Other Thing.)
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Romans 13:1 tells me that God establishes authority and rulers. He ordained the rulers of Persia and Babylon that terrorized Israel, using them for his divine purposes. He allows rulers to bless and sometimes to judge. God is sovereign.
 
steve said:
I’m reminded of a line in one of The Duke’s movies “If you are not going to respect your elders, you WILL respect your betters” before beating the snot out of him.
So what I’m saying is that if people won’t respect the Office, the alternative is that they fear disrespecting it.
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True Grit?

I understand what you’re saying. I’m not saying things should go unpunished. I just don’t see the nation surviving a full prosecution, imprisonment or execution of a former President for treason. It would accomplish justice, but the nation would never recover.

Besides, I don’t think Trump is looking for that either. I think he wants them to squirm, sweat, and be convicted by the court of public opinion.
 
Mojo said:
Romans 13:1 tells me that God establishes authority and rulers. He ordained the rulers of Persia and Babylon that terrorized Israel, using them for his divine purposes. He allows rulers to bless and sometimes to judge. God is sovereign.
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Our understanding of that verse is a problem for me.
I don’t believe that He is as controlling as it suggests.
 
steve said:
Our understanding of that verse is a problem for me.
I don’t believe that He is as controlling as it suggests.
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God hardened the heart of Pharoah
Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

In both instances, it accomplished the will of God.
 
Mojo said:
God hardened the heart of Pharoah
Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

In both instances, it accomplished the will of God.
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That’s a tough one also.
Either Pharaoh had a free will , or he didn’t. I have to believe that he did.
I believe that Yah changes circumstances more than He changes people. People react to the circumstances. And yes, that would be a form of manipulation.
 
steve said:
That’s a tough one also.
Either Pharaoh had a free will , or he didn’t. I have to believe that he did.
I believe that Yah changes circumstances more than He changes people. People react to the circumstances. And yes, that would be a form of manipulation.
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Pharaoh did have free will. He acted on it. And God allowed him to work out what was already in his fallen nature. But Pharaoh could never act out beyond the will of God.

God’s will will always be accomplished. Even if something seems bad or tragic, we are to give thanks in all, even bad rulers, because God is working all things together for his ultimate good for his children. In my free will, I can join him in his purposes, or fight it, but his will will always be done. The mind of God will always be a mystery until we see him face to face.

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” Romans 8:28

“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” I Corinthians 13:12
 
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steve said:
That’s a tough one also.
Either Pharaoh had a free will , or he didn’t. I have to believe that he did.
I believe that Yah changes circumstances more than He changes people. People react to the circumstances. And yes, that would be a form of manipulation.
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I have posted more than one lengthy midrash on that topic, in some detail. Note that there are TWO different Hebrew words used in the text, but only translated into the SAME word in English (harden). One (the root is the same as Kazakh) is better rendered as "strengthened" his heart, or made it stout. The other renders as "stubborn-ized," with a wholly different understanding.

But the other distinction is WHEN. At first, Pharoah did BOTH himself, making a decision. But - in for a penny, in for a pound - once he was IN, YHVH eventually kept him in. (As a friend says, you can choose to "dance with the bear." But once you do, the BEAR decides when the dance is over.)

As for Romans 13, another standard 'twisting'. (I sometimes quote Romans 13:1, GIV: "When Big Brother says jump, you say, 'How high?'" - Government Inspired Version.) Remember that the guy who actually wrote that verse was himself multiply-guilty of DISOBEYING 'government' and 'authorities' - and he was evidently proud of it, and wrote of it often. And he knew that EVERY prominent example, starting with Puah and Shiphrah, the midwives in Exodus 1, EXPLICITLY disobeyed Pharaoh, and were blessed, praised, and rewarded for that rebellion to a fake 'god.'
 
Mojo said:
I understand what you’re saying. I’m not saying things should go unpunished. I just don’t see the nation surviving a full prosecution, imprisonment or execution of a former President for treason. It would accomplish justice, but the nation would never recover.
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OK, and here we do very much disagree. The nation - as a Constitutional Republic - is already dead, and may not recover anyway. But the Rule of Law itself will not survive, in any form, if we FAIL to hold history's most infamous Evil Traitor responsible, and REVERSE the damage already done.

Don't forget: Biden was senile. He was NEVER legitimate, even for a single minute. Remember what Jefferson and the Founders wrote about acts of "pretended legislation." (Including, but not limited to, pretend pardons.) That must likewise be nullified - every bit of it.


PS> And the fact I very much doubt any of that will actually happen just underlines my rightful cynicism about the possibility of any real recovery. "Come out of her," was an imperative, now it's urgent.
 
Mojo said:
I’m torn. I would appreciate justice, but at what expense? Do we really want the cycle of impeaching and/or putting previous presidents on trial?

Send Rice, Comey, Brennan, all of them up the creek. Unless there’s a smoking gun that ordered specific instructions, the presidency needs shielding. What I’ve heard so far, Obummer could easily explain away his culpability.
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Yes! What is sauce for the goose, as they say... They would not have hesitated to put Trump or Bush or Cheney in jail. One of them even posted on a major Lib publication that Trump and Pence should be executed!

At what expense? Well patience is key here. They do need to receive due process. No rush to judgment, as they would have done. We establish the evidence first! So the punishment is for those who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and they are in fact innocent until proven guilty. It appears the documents left behind will play out and they are highly incriminating, BUT we MUST wait for justice to run its course. Whatever happens though, the trial CANNOT be held in a DC court, because there is no jury in DC that either acquit a Republican regardless of how the evidence clears them, nor convict a Democrat, regardless of how incriminating the evidence is. We already have seen some of that play out in the NY court system.
 
Heavens Declare said:
Yes! What is sauce for the goose, as they say... They would not have hesitated to put Trump or Bush or Cheney in jail. One of them even posted on a major Lib publication that Trump and Pence should be executed!
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No doubt that some wanted execution, but I heard many honest brokers on the left openly balk at prosecuting Trump to the fullest because it would set a bad precedent.

If BHO is tried and convicted by a jury of his peers in Wyoming, what punishment would you recommend?
 
Mark C said:
OK, and here we do very much disagree. The nation - as a Constitutional Republic - is already dead, and may not recover anyway. But the Rule of Law itself will not survive, in any form, if we FAIL to hold history's most infamous Evil Traitor responsible, and REVERSE the damage already done.
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Even DJT admits that immunity will likely save BHO.

www.breitbart.com

President Trump Says SCOTUS Presidential Immunity Ruling Helps Obama: He's Done 'Criminal Acts' and 'Owes Me Big'

The Supreme Court of the United States' presidential immunity ruling probably helps former President Barack Obama, President Trump said.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com

 
Mojo said:
Even DJT admits that immunity will likely save BHO.
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Never said it wouldn't, since the system is utterly rigged. I just said it's idiocy.

But based on that logic, Trump can declare himself a third term, or order executions of judges he doesn't like. No limits...
 
I have an inherent love/hate relationship with bees. Maybe more applicable to hornets- yes i can get close to them but no, their ability to hurt me causes me to walk away. I have the free-will to stand there and get stung or walk. Either is possible. Pharoah chose to be stiffnecked and get "stung". Free will is a funny thing but the fact that you HAVE free will does not mean you escape the repercussions of such.
 
Mojo said:
I’m torn. I would appreciate justice, but at what expense? Do we really want the cycle of impeaching and/or putting previous presidents on trial?

Send Rice, Comey, Brennan, all of them up the creek. Unless there’s a smoking gun that ordered specific instructions, the presidency needs shielding. What I’ve heard so far, Obummer could easily explain away his culpability.
Click to expand...

Mark C said:
OK, and here we do very much disagree. The nation - as a Constitutional Republic - is already dead, and may not recover anyway. But the Rule of Law itself will not survive, in any form, if we FAIL to hold history's most infamous Evil Traitor responsible, and REVERSE the damage already done.

Don't forget: Biden was senile. He was NEVER legitimate, even for a single minute. Remember what Jefferson and the Founders wrote about acts of "pretended legislation." (Including, but not limited to, pretend pardons.) That must likewise be nullified - every bit of it.


PS> And the fact I very much doubt any of that will actually happen just underlines my rightful cynicism about the possibility of any real recovery. "Come out of her," was an imperative, now it's urgent.
Click to expand...

Heavens Declare said:
Yes! What is sauce for the goose, as they say... They would not have hesitated to put Trump or Bush or Cheney in jail. One of them even posted on a major Lib publication that Trump and Pence should be executed!

At what expense? Well patience is key here. They do need to receive due process. No rush to judgment, as they would have done. We establish the evidence first! So the punishment is for those who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and they are in fact innocent until proven guilty. It appears the documents left behind will play out and they are highly incriminating, BUT we MUST wait for justice to run its course. Whatever happens though, the trial CANNOT be held in a DC court, because there is no jury in DC that either acquit a Republican regardless of how the evidence clears them, nor convict a Democrat, regardless of how incriminating the evidence is. We already have seen some of that play out in the NY court system.
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Presidency is already crap institution.

If Obama even did half of what is accused, it's direct attack on institution itself. No institution can survive if it doesn't defend itself.

Second, some people are able only to learn if you hit back. Hard and fast. If right want to survive long term, it must learn to hit back.

Even if Obama is grant immunity, it doesn't mean that immunity covers anyone else. So all his partners in crime csn have party time behind bars.

Prosecution, even if it can't get Obama (if accusations are true) will still be able to clear one big corruption den.
 
Not sure if this is reliable or not, but this guy seems to think that the criminal statute of limitations may have run out for all but Brennan (who testified to Congress two years ago).

They wonder if BHO could even be tried for treason since there was technically no enemy of the US he was aiding.

These guys aren’t high ranking lawyers so their opinion may be trash, but has anyone else heard this line of thinking?

 
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