January 20th 2025 - Donald Trump is BACK!

[MemeFan]

You can't just hypothesise that everything is due to mysterious non-tariff trade barriers that must exist somewhere in the mist. This is a vague statement of faith. I was focusing on tangible reality, and when you look at the facts you find much of the trade imbalance either does not exist in the first place and has been exaggerated, or exists for reasons other than trade barriers.

They are real. Quotes, industry regulation (you can't sell unless you fulfill regulations), approvals from state bodies...running out of ideas.

Tariffs are only most visible barrier.

Btw, Sout Africa requires that black people own part of business for privilige of importing. How is that not revelant barrier?

EDIT: Added South Africa example

 

[FollowingHim]

Yes, some are real, but remain minor details. They're a deliberate distraction from the main issue. My last post peels off the distraction and gets down to the core. Read it again.

 

[Mark C]

You can't just hypothesise that everything is due to mysterious non-tariff trade barriers that must exist somewhere in the mist.

Not at all the point.

It's the tyrannical globalist system that is being attacked - which surprised me, admittedly - from the WTO to WHO to the EU to the BIS and DEI gods.

They need to be destroyed. Tariffs are a brilliant lever.

PS> And, yes, "dishonest weights" - as I've said on any and every forum I address - are an abomination. There can BE NO FREE TRADE with fiat money. The US$ is toast.

But Trump doesn't have to do anything to destroy that - it's a Dead Man Walking. All he has to do is help the American people survive the implosion that is coming - somehow.

 

[FollowingHim]

And, yes, "dishonest weights" - as I've said on any and every forum I address - are an abomination.

I agree. The further point I'd make to that is: who has benefited from the dishonest weights and measures while they have existed? The USA, clearly, as they have gained physical assets in exchange for those dishonest measures. So it is wrong to claim the system has been rigged against the USA, as Trump's rhetoric states. In fact, the opposite is true. The USA has become rich off of it. The fact it has become decadent also, no longer bothering to make its own stuff as it is easier to buy it from elsewhere, is simply the inevitable result of becoming rich.

 

[OttoM]

Sorry, but here's where the error creeps in.

Florida can't print currency out of nothing. The 'feds' can, and do. They don't NEED ANY TAX of any kind, except to perpetuate the fraud. IOW, 'taxes' convince the rubes that they are 'paying' for something, when in fact it could simply be printed. But then, people would suspect what would be obvious.

They can print to oblivion - that's correct. They just have to raise the debt ceiling every once in a while (minor convenience), and the show goes on. Our tax dollars will never pay off the debt. It's just used to keep us in the system - debt slaves working until the wheels come off. But at least in Florida they are looking to lighten the burden - versus other states like NY or CA.

Close, but it's not "money," it's fiat. But they are 'addicted.'

It's an un-equal weight and measure - silver and gold are money.

Issue is never taxes, always spending. Without control of spending only available tax system is one getting as money as possible from population.

Spending being primary problem here.

Extreme taxation is a major burden on the people. Imagine an older couple - they've paid off their house - but they are still paying Uncle Sam every year a property tax - which btw - rises with increased property prices - along with food and everything else.

Spending is also a major problem. They are both out of control.

It will come back. It's not labor cost problem since shipping over Pacific costs 3X more than labor cost savings by using cheaper labor. It's regulation causing deindustrialization, taxes and dollar as reserve currency.

Deregulation is being fixed. Check zero-based regulation.

I simply don't see the manufacturing coming back. I may be wrong, but I just don't see it. I think more suffering is their game plan, and they are just itching our ears to justify their actions; and to avoid strong pushback.

 

[OttoM]

US living standards will decline, it is inevitable, when cheap imports reduce and you can buy fewer things.

I agree with your post.

A lot of these companies like Amazon - they prepared for the tariffs by stockpiling. But what happens when that stock gets depleted, and they have to sell much, much higher for those same products? People will naturally spend less (or start stealing even more). What happens when people spend less? Companies like Amazon, Home Depot, Best Buy; they start letting people go. Imagine a snowball rolling down a hill. It gets bigger and bigger. Likewise other industries will get affected - for example - transportation (UPS/FedEx/Freight).

The cheap goods from China means that Americans were able to spend way more. Which alone adds countless (American) jobs. After all - someone has to pick and package the items. Someone has to ship it out. Through those jobs people can afford to pay for restaurants, gym memberships, soccer lessons, etc. So they may not be "manufacturing jobs" but it puts food on the table, and helps their local economy. But less spending = job cuts and business closures everywhere.

The global elites will barely be affected, however. They are millionaires and billionaires. Even if their wealth is cut by 80% - they won't even flinch buying a $100k watch. They'll still be able to buy whatever they need without any major inconvenience. If anything - they'll thank Trump for less traffic on the roads.

By the time manufacturing comes back - if it comes back (doubt it) - America will look different. That is considering things stay as they are.

 

[MemeFan]

Extreme taxation is a major burden on the people. Imagine an older couple - they've paid off their house - but they are still paying Uncle Sam every year a property tax - which btw - rises with increased property prices - along with food and everything else.

You Americans are lucky. Come live in Europe where 2/3 or more income finish in state coffers by way of major taxes. Minor taxes could in my estimatoon add another 10-15% percent.

You don't have value added taxes.

 

[Mark C]

[RE: Dishonest weights; fiat] I agree. The further point I'd make to that is: who has benefited from the dishonest weights and measures while they have existed? The USA, clearly, as they have gained physical assets in exchange for those dishonest measures.

I don't intend to disagree, but simply clarify that "benefit" from fiat fraud isn't the term I'd use. It's a bit like saying a coke addict 'benefits' from the brief high that not only ends up destroying him, but all those who touch it.

(It helped gut AmeriKan manufacturing, for example. But only as PART of the equation.)

 

[MemeFan]

Yes, some are real, but remain minor details. They're a deliberate distraction from the main issue. My last post peels off the distraction and gets down to the core. Read it again.

Problem with regulations is people systematicaly underestimating how destructive they are.

As general rule it's better to remove law than to reduce taxes 10%.

How much this crap will raise prices:

IMO Makes History with First Global Carbon Pricing Scheme for Shipping, Despite Mixed Reactions

In a landmark decision, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) has approved the world’s first meaningful global carbon pricing scheme for the shipping industry, marking a significant step toward maritime decarbonization....

gcaptain.com

Probably will hit harder than raising income tax by 5%.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Having the global reserve currency has absolutely been a curse to the US. The moral hazard alone is enough to make it a terrible idea.

But we didn’t get wealthy because we have the reserve currency. We got the reserve currency because we were wealthy. Then that reserve currency siphoned off our real wealth and sent it over seas for cheap foreign televisions and microwaves. It has not increased our standard of living, it has destroyed it. We’ve sent real wealth and got shortened lifespans and a collapsing culture in return.

On top of that, all the bar money washing around has corrupted our government and financed the
moral degradation of our people. It’s been a disaster. The best thing that could ever happen to America is that we lost the reserve currency. Then the rest of the world can rely on the tender economic mercies of India and (briefly) China and good luck to them all. It couldn’t happen to a more deserving group of people!

 

[MemeFan]

Having the global reserve currency has absolutely been a curse to the US. The moral hazard alone is enough to make it a terrible idea.

But we didn’t get wealthy because we have the reserve currency. We got the reserve currency because we were wealthy. Then that reserve currency siphoned off our real wealth and sent it over seas for cheap foreign televisions and microwaves. It has not increased our standard of living, it has destroyed it. We’ve sent real wealth and got shortened lifespans and a collapsing culture in return.

On top of that, all the bar money washing around has corrupted our government and financed the
moral degradation of our people. It’s been a disaster. The best thing that could ever happen to America is that we lost the reserve currency. Then the rest of the world can rely on the tender economic mercies of India and (briefly) China and good luck to them all. It couldn’t happen to a more deserving group of people!

Not the first time.

Potosi, silver mine of Spanish Empire destroyed it.

When government is source of highly desirable money (which reserve currency is), comparative advantage of state moves to money printing.

in long run only industry worth beimg is creatimg money which automatically destroys all other industries producing something worthwhile.

This can only result in total cultural destruction.

Btw, Spanish Empire was first state with world reserve currency.

 

[MemeFan]

Sad:

MAGA Trump Official Who Shuttered USAID & Wanted Deepest Cuts Fired After Clashes With Rubio: Report | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[steve]

Sad:

MAGA Trump Official Who Shuttered USAID & Wanted Deepest Cuts Fired After Clashes With Rubio: Report | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

It was a seemingly reasonable article until the last statement.

 

[Mark C]

Not the first time.

Potosi, silver mine of Spanish Empire destroyed it.

When government is source of highly desirable money (which reserve currency is), comparative advantage of state moves to money printing.

in long run only industry worth beimg is creatimg money which automatically destroys all other industries producing something worthwhile.

This can only result in total cultural destruction.

Btw, Spanish Empire was first state with world reserve currency.

Not counting Rome?

 

[FollowingHim]

But we didn’t get wealthy because we have the reserve currency. We got the reserve currency because we were wealthy. Then that reserve currency siphoned off our real wealth and sent it over seas for cheap foreign televisions and microwaves. It has not increased our standard of living, it has destroyed it. We’ve sent real wealth and got shortened lifespans and a collapsing culture in return.

And you are also correct - the wealth did come first, then the reserve currency, and the USA has declined since then. Yet my point is true too - you've been sending paper overseas and receiving goods in return, which I see as real wealth. So how do we reconcile these two truths?

I think that the decline in the USA's real wealth is not due to having the world's reserve currency per-se, but rather decadence and apathy. Earlier generations worked hard and build up the wealth of the USA, creating a wealthy country - but one that was inward-focussed. This focus continued up to WW1, and in a waned form up to WW2. In WW2 this vast wealth was converted into military power, projected outwards (contrary to the previous philosophy), and used to achieve a great military victory. After this point the USA essentially ruled the world through soft power projection (other than the Soviet bloc where that power projection did not reach).

This achievement of the pinnacle of power, and the rewards of the massive industrial capacity flowing down to people, raised living standards so high that people no longer felt they had to work as hard. Life was now easy, and the focus of life was improving living standards, not building a sustainable society (it seemed you already had that, so people could now focus on their personal desires). And that began a period of decadence that has bled the power of the USA through a thousand little cuts.

Buying "cheap foreign televisions and microwaves" is wealth. It does improve the standard of living - if you don't have to spend as much to buy a microwave, and don't have to spend as much time in the kitchen "slaving over a hot stove" as a result, the extra time and money can go into other things that you enjoy more also. We look back on the "good old days" but forget how much work they involved and how little leisure time people had. All those cheap gadgets are real wealth.

But they are not the sort of wealth that builds the future of a country for generations. They are the sort of wealth that is enjoyed in the present. It's like buying icecream vs buying a spanner.

So I am correct that the USA has brought in wealth through having the world reserve currency - but you are correct that it is the sort of wealth that ultimately decays rather than builds.

 

[MemeFan]

And you are also correct - the wealth did come first, then the reserve currency, and the USA has declined since then. Yet my point is true too - you've been sending paper overseas and receiving goods in return, which I see as real wealth. So how do we reconcile these two truths?

I think that the decline in the USA's real wealth is not due to having the world's reserve currency per-se, but rather decadence and apathy. Earlier generations worked hard and build up the wealth of the USA, creating a wealthy country - but one that was inward-focussed. This focus continued up to WW1, and in a waned form up to WW2. In WW2 this vast wealth was converted into military power, projected outwards (contrary to the previous philosophy), and used to achieve a great military victory. After this point the USA essentially ruled the world through soft power projection (other than the Soviet bloc where that power projection did not reach).

This achievement of the pinnacle of power, and the rewards of the massive industrial capacity flowing down to people, raised living standards so high that people no longer felt they had to work as hard. Life was now easy, and the focus of life was improving living standards, not building a sustainable society (it seemed you already had that, so people could now focus on their personal desires). And that began a period of decadence that has bled the power of the USA through a thousand little cuts.

Buying "cheap foreign televisions and microwaves" is wealth. It does improve the standard of living - if you don't have to spend as much to buy a microwave, and don't have to spend as much time in the kitchen "slaving over a hot stove" as a result, the extra time and money can go into other things that you enjoy more also. We look back on the "good old days" but forget how much work they involved and how little leisure time people had. All those cheap gadgets are real wealth.

But they are not the sort of wealth that builds the future of a country for generations. They are the sort of wealth that is enjoyed in the present. It's like buying icecream vs buying a spanner.

So I am correct that the USA has brought in wealth through having the world reserve currency - but you are correct that it is the sort of wealth that ultimately decays rather than builds.

Except this rising standards are bought with selling assets.

If rich man sells his 25 business and keeps buying villas and hiring servants, he would look very successful while speeding into bankrupcy.

What you analysis is missing is how those newly wealth is bought? By selling stocks, bonds and housing. By selling assets which means foreigners wealthier. It's foreigners buying power which is being increased since the more Americans increase productivity, increase in cashflow will end in foreigner's pockets.

Any blessing of reserve currency are only ones which finish into state coffers. Greater ability to export inflation and greater ability to pay for army.

 

[FollowingHim]

Except this rising standards are bought with selling assets.

If rich man sells his 25 business and keeps buying villas and hiring servants, he would look very successful while speeding into bankrupcy.

What you analysis is missing is how those newly wealth is bought? By selling stocks, bonds and housing. By selling assets which means foreigners wealthier.

Really? If I ask for an example of that you'll obviously be able to find one, but can you show from real examples that this is how things have generally gone with major US companies?

I think you are mistaken, and what has actually happened is a bit different. In some cases US companies have built factories offshore, which they still own, but are now hiring foreigners. In other cases US companies have lost in competition with foreign companies, reducing or closing their US factories as a result. I really don't believe foreigners have wholesale bought up US companies as you suggest, as although some shares have been sold offshore at least as many shares of foreign companies will have been purchased by Americans, and you'd need to take that into consideration.

On the contrary, the ultra-rich of the USA now own assets all over the world. Of course, their incredible wealth doesn't help the commoners much...