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Is Divorce A Sin?
- Thread starter Doc
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^_^
Member
this question is another case of the 'if/then' application.
Yahushua said it was allowed because of hardness of heart. That's a mouthful. Who had the hardness of heart? Male? Female? Both?
I'd say it depends. Since we all have some hard heartedness in all of us, we have to consider this carefully.
Yahushua said it was allowed because of hardness of heart. That's a mouthful. Who had the hardness of heart? Male? Female? Both?
I'd say it depends. Since we all have some hard heartedness in all of us, we have to consider this carefully.
- Is the person initiating the divorce doing so for purely selfish reasons?
Would the harm done to family be greater if they stayed together than if they split?
What other factors led up to this consideration of divorce? Misrepresentation of one'self, etc?
I'd argue (probably "again" 
) that the answer is "depends", and also repeat the assertion that it is very important to distinguish between the "putting away", as opposed to the lawful divorce, and associated written "get". (And will post again the link to an article that I think is about the best I know of on said distinction:
http://www.missiontoisrael.org/m-d-remar.php?print=1 )
The story of both the "remedy for the jealous husband" from the Torah, and Yeshua's references to it, are very educational; the fact that one is PERMITTED to divorce a wife for adultery, even, does not necessarily mean one must, or even should. The point of those options seems to me to be reconciliation.
And I also can't help but note (Isaiah 4:1 again
) that if there was to be another "great awakening" in Amerika and a return to an honest reading of Torah and the teachings of the Savior - there might be more than a few husbands finding that they have more than one wife, who was "put away" improperly...
) that the answer is "depends", and also repeat the assertion that it is very important to distinguish between the "putting away", as opposed to the lawful divorce, and associated written "get". (And will post again the link to an article that I think is about the best I know of on said distinction:http://www.missiontoisrael.org/m-d-remar.php?print=1 )
The story of both the "remedy for the jealous husband" from the Torah, and Yeshua's references to it, are very educational; the fact that one is PERMITTED to divorce a wife for adultery, even, does not necessarily mean one must, or even should. The point of those options seems to me to be reconciliation.
And I also can't help but note (Isaiah 4:1 again
) that if there was to be another "great awakening" in Amerika and a return to an honest reading of Torah and the teachings of the Savior - there might be more than a few husbands finding that they have more than one wife, who was "put away" improperly...
^_^
Member
Yeah, I'm afraid in my ignorance/rebellion a few years back, I am guilty of putting away improperly because I had so much respect for the state papers, or at the least, guilty of fornication.Mark C said:And I also can't help but note (Isaiah 4:1 again
May Yahweh respect our turning back and have mercy on our souls.
WomanSeekingGod
New Member
I think that is an extremely complicated question. My personal feelings are that Christians are to never get a divorce, and if they do so then they are sinning. However, there are so many gray areas in between that make it difficult to just answer yes or no. You would almost have to answer that question on a case by case basis.
If we are only talking about two Christians wanting to divorce, then I would point to the Scriptures Matthew 6:15 and Mark 11:26 where we are told that we must forgive. If we are unwilling to forgive, then we are sinning. A Christian who is unwilling to forgive their spouse to the point of divorcing them, would, I believe, be committing a sin.
If we are only talking about two Christians wanting to divorce, then I would point to the Scriptures Matthew 6:15 and Mark 11:26 where we are told that we must forgive. If we are unwilling to forgive, then we are sinning. A Christian who is unwilling to forgive their spouse to the point of divorcing them, would, I believe, be committing a sin.
A
Anonymous
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DaPastor said:
Well, divorce was allowed for the cause of adultery under the Old Covenant. The example of God's divorce was under the Old Covenant.
However, it is difficult to parse that through what Paul says is a direct command of God in 1 Corinthians 7:10-16...
"Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?" (1 Corinthians 7:10-16)
Since what Paul is saying is a command from God, then wives can't leave their husbands, and husbands cannot divorce their wives.
How can this fit with the account of God's divorce in the Old Testament? Well, clearly this is not under the Old Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, Jesus said that divorce was allowed for the hardness of their hearts, and for the cause of adultery. In the New Covenant, Jesus' blood has cleansed us from all impurities--EVEN ADULTERY if we turn away from it. Therefore, under the Perfect Law of Love, how can we divorce our Christian spouse that has repented for adultery? We can't and still show them love.
Whether we want to believe that the divorce commandment has changed or that it simply is applied differently under different Covenants, the simple command is: DON'T GET A DIVORCE.
John
And what if your spouse hasn't repented?
Sweet Lissa
Sweet Lissa
^_^
Member
The only response I can really give here is that in the case of adultery, there was no divorce, only a stoning which would have made a divorce totally unnecessary. Nope, we need to get out of the mindset taught us by the church, and know what Yahushua said, which was the same as Moshe said since he inspired Moshe. The reason divorce was allowed was for a matter of uncleaness, which is the woman misrepresented herself in some fashion, either chastity or character. Can you not see the hardness of heart there? No, the hardness wasn't supposed to be there, but neither is sin. Get rid of both in your life, and divorce will no longer be an issue any longer. Now mind, you can only control your life, if your spouse has heart hardness, what's a person to do?John_for_Christ said:
sixth_heretic
Member
Everyone keeps quoting this scripture so I thought I would post it to avoid confusion.
Matt.5
[32] But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
So with out taking from scripture and with out adding to it.
A man can not divorce his wife unless she cheats on him.
If he divorces her with out that reason he causes her to commit adultery.
Any one that marries the woman that was put away also comits adultery.
Rom.7
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
1Cor.7
[39] The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
A woman is married to her husband until he dies.
Once the husband is dead she is no longer married.
Then she can marry whom ever she is able since she is not married.
So from these examples only virgins and widows are eligible for marriage. If a woman is released from marriage by divorce she is an adulterer as is any man that sleeps with her.
Matt.5
[32] But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
So with out taking from scripture and with out adding to it.
A man can not divorce his wife unless she cheats on him.
If he divorces her with out that reason he causes her to commit adultery.
Any one that marries the woman that was put away also comits adultery.
Rom.7
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
1Cor.7
[39] The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
A woman is married to her husband until he dies.
Once the husband is dead she is no longer married.
Then she can marry whom ever she is able since she is not married.
So from these examples only virgins and widows are eligible for marriage. If a woman is released from marriage by divorce she is an adulterer as is any man that sleeps with her.
A
Anonymous
Guest
sixth_heretic said:
Technically, in addition to virgins and widows, whores (zanah) are also eligible for marriage. A whore is neither a virgin nor a widow, yet she may still lawfully marry, should a man take her as his wife. I am in agreement though that, other than for the exemption given in Mt. 5:32 and Deut. 24:1, any "divorced" woman whose husband is still alive is prohibited from remarriage. If she lays with another man while her lawful husband lives, she is an adulteress.
David
A link to this article describing the mistranslations associated with this verse has been posted before, sixth_heretic, but it was before you came on board. Here it is again, for the complete discussion and details:
http://www.missiontoisrael.org/m-d-remar.php
Capsule synopsis --
There is a BIG difference between "putting away" a wife, and a lawful divorce. Likewise the exception clause must be understood carefully.
And here is the corrected version of Matthew 5:31-32, with emphasis to avoid confusion, and the original Greek distinctions in place for confirmation:
sixth_heretic
Member
Where did you get that definition of fornication?
[incest, prostitution, forbidden lineage and/or interracial relationships, homosexuality, etc.],
Which translation are you get this from?
When a woman sleeps with a man she is bound to him till he dies.
Rom.7
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So if she sleeps with a man she breaks that covenent with him against scripture. That is why jesus said only divorce your wife when she comits fornication. (Sleeps with someone else)
The bible can not contradict other scriptures on the same subject and that list of words you added can be sumed up in sex with someone other then your spouse. (save for the interracial thing I am haveing a little problem with. Also there is no concept of female homosexuality anywhere in scripture)
If a woman sleeps with a man she is bound to him for life. If he dies she is set free. If she sleeps with anyone else before he dies she commits adultery.
This is not a difficult concept.
God forgives all sins in the name of jesus Christ. But we can not say that this is not a sin just because it is inconvenient.
[incest, prostitution, forbidden lineage and/or interracial relationships, homosexuality, etc.],
Which translation are you get this from?
When a woman sleeps with a man she is bound to him till he dies.
Rom.7
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So if she sleeps with a man she breaks that covenent with him against scripture. That is why jesus said only divorce your wife when she comits fornication. (Sleeps with someone else)
The bible can not contradict other scriptures on the same subject and that list of words you added can be sumed up in sex with someone other then your spouse. (save for the interracial thing I am haveing a little problem with. Also there is no concept of female homosexuality anywhere in scripture)
If a woman sleeps with a man she is bound to him for life. If he dies she is set free. If she sleeps with anyone else before he dies she commits adultery.
This is not a difficult concept.
God forgives all sins in the name of jesus Christ. But we can not say that this is not a sin just because it is inconvenient.
Mark C said:I'd argue (probably "again"
http://www.missiontoisrael.org/m-d-remar.php?print=1 )
The story of both the "remedy for the jealous husband" from the Torah, and Yeshua's references to it, are very educational; the fact that one is PERMITTED to divorce a wife for adultery, even, does not necessarily mean one must, or even should. The point of those options seems to me to be reconciliation.
And I also can't help but note (Isaiah 4:1 again
Hello,
There is so much that could be said about this misunderstood topic - I wish I had time to hit this one verse by verse. For one to divorce another is not always sin - period!
1. This would charge God with sin! (Jer 3:8)
2. Nehemiah encouraged divorce (Neh 9:2; 13:23-27).
It should also be noted that "divorce by death" under the Law establishes Biblical principles for Godly reasons one may divorce:
Discovering your husband is a rapist.(Deut 22:25, 26)
Discovering your spouse is practicing beastiality.(Ex 22:19; Lev 18:23; 20:15; Num 35:16-21)
There is also the issue of fraud where a man is encouraged to divorce a women who claimed virginity (Deut 22:21).
What about discovering that your wife is still legally married to three other men?
It is a very complex subject and unfortunately the Evangelical church has not attempted to understand this topic "wholelistically", that is, they have not done a very good job at looking at this topic from the perspective of the entire Bible!
A
Anonymous
Guest
There does seem to be a great deal of confusion regarding "divorce" or "putting away". The correct answer to the question of "Is Divorce A Sin?" is this: LAWFUL divorce is not a sin. UNLAWFUL divorce is a sin. The distinction as to whether a divorce is LAWFUL or UNLAWFUL is whether it is JUSTIFIED as specified in Deut. 24:1 and Matt. 19:3-9, specifically:
"if she finds no favour in his eyes because he has found a matter of uncoveredness in her"
"whoever puts away his wife, except on the ground of whoring, and marries another, commits adultery."
Unless this exemption clause is applicable, the divorce is invalid, regardless whether a "certificate of divorcement" is given or not. A piece of paper neither marries nor unmarries anyone. It is evidence of the fact, not justification of it.
There are only two Hebrew words we need to be concerned with here:
keriythuwth (Strong's #3748): cutting off from marriage (from the root karath, Strong's #3772, meaning to cut off, to behead, to destroy, to permit to perish)
shalach (Strong's #7971): putting away, sending away
Just as there is no such word as "adultery" in Hebrew (rather, na'aph), so likewise is there no such word as "divorce" in Hebrew (rather, keriythuwth). Na'aph does not mean adultery, and keriythuwth does not mean divorce, but these are the closest words in English we have for the most similar meaning.
Now let's take a look at Deut. 24...
Deut. 24:1-4: "When a man takes a wife and shall marry her, then it shall be, if she finds no favour in his eyes because he has found a matter of uncoveredness in her, and he shall write her a certificate of KERIYTHUWTH (cutting off from marriage), and put it in her hand, and SHALACH (send away) her out of his house, and if she left his house and went and became another man’s wife, and the latter husband shall hate her and write her a certificate of KERIYTHUWTH (cutting off from marriage), and put it in her hand, and SHALACH (send away) her out of his house, or when the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, then her former husband who SHALACH (sent away) her is not allowed to take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled, for that would be an abomination before Yahweh. And do not bring sin on the land which Yahweh your Elohim is giving you as an inheritance."
Look at the sequence of events:
1) She finds no favor in his eyes because he found a "matter of uncoveredness" in her
2) He writes her a certificate of divorcement (keriythuwth)
3) He puts the certificate in her hand himself
4) He sends her (shalach) out of his house
Mal. 2:14-16: "And you said, "Why?" Because Yahweh has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have acted treacherously, though she is your companion and the wife of your covenant. And did He not make one? And He had the remnant of the Spirit? And what is the one alone? He seeks a seed of Elohim. So you shall guard your spirit, and let none act treacherously against the wife of his youth. "For I hate SHALACH (sending away)," said Yahweh Elohim of Yisra’el, "and the one who covers his garment with cruelty," said Yahweh of hosts. "So you shall guard your spirit, and do not act treacherously."
It seems clear that it is the acting treacherously against the wife of one's youth that is the subject of objection here. God says He hates "shalach" here in Mal. 2:16, yet it is the same word He uses in Jer. 3:8 when He Himself "shalach"'s Israel. The difference is not merely a certificate of cutting off, but rather the treacherous act the husband is committing against her without cause. When the husband SHALACH (sends away) his wife, it is supposed to be a punishment; a necessary consequence of marital unfaithfulness on the part of the wife. Without the required "matter of uncoveredness", the SHALACH (sending away) is unwarranted, UNJUSTIFIED, despite any certificate of KERIYTHUWTH (cutting off from marriage).
This was precisely why the Pharisees asked Jesus the question about whether it was lawful to "put away" one's wife for any reason, and His response was that, outside the "matter of whoring", to do so would be adultery.
Matt. 19:3-9: "And the Pharisees came to Him, trying Him, and saying to Him, "Is it right for a man to put away his wife for every reason?" And He answering, said to them, "Did you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what Elohim has joined together, let man not separate." They said to Him, "Why then did Mosheh command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts, Mosheh allowed you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever puts away his wife, except on the ground of whoring, and marries another, commits adultery. And whoever marries her who has been put away commits adultery."
We can see that the whole "certificate of divorce" argument was brought up and refuted by Jesus Himself. What God hates is UNJUSTIFIED divorce, being treacherous to the wife of one's youth, not merely the lack of a certificate of divorce.
I hope this helps bring clarity to the whole issue of whether "divorcement" is a sin or not. If used properly, it is a necessary consequence. If used improperly, it is most definitely a sin. God spiritually cut off physical Israel for her spiritual adultery and in that, he did not sin, because it was justified.
David
"if she finds no favour in his eyes because he has found a matter of uncoveredness in her"
"whoever puts away his wife, except on the ground of whoring, and marries another, commits adultery."
Unless this exemption clause is applicable, the divorce is invalid, regardless whether a "certificate of divorcement" is given or not. A piece of paper neither marries nor unmarries anyone. It is evidence of the fact, not justification of it.
There are only two Hebrew words we need to be concerned with here:
keriythuwth (Strong's #3748): cutting off from marriage (from the root karath, Strong's #3772, meaning to cut off, to behead, to destroy, to permit to perish)
shalach (Strong's #7971): putting away, sending away
Just as there is no such word as "adultery" in Hebrew (rather, na'aph), so likewise is there no such word as "divorce" in Hebrew (rather, keriythuwth). Na'aph does not mean adultery, and keriythuwth does not mean divorce, but these are the closest words in English we have for the most similar meaning.
Now let's take a look at Deut. 24...
Deut. 24:1-4: "When a man takes a wife and shall marry her, then it shall be, if she finds no favour in his eyes because he has found a matter of uncoveredness in her, and he shall write her a certificate of KERIYTHUWTH (cutting off from marriage), and put it in her hand, and SHALACH (send away) her out of his house, and if she left his house and went and became another man’s wife, and the latter husband shall hate her and write her a certificate of KERIYTHUWTH (cutting off from marriage), and put it in her hand, and SHALACH (send away) her out of his house, or when the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, then her former husband who SHALACH (sent away) her is not allowed to take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled, for that would be an abomination before Yahweh. And do not bring sin on the land which Yahweh your Elohim is giving you as an inheritance."
Look at the sequence of events:
1) She finds no favor in his eyes because he found a "matter of uncoveredness" in her
2) He writes her a certificate of divorcement (keriythuwth)
3) He puts the certificate in her hand himself
4) He sends her (shalach) out of his house
Mal. 2:14-16: "And you said, "Why?" Because Yahweh has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have acted treacherously, though she is your companion and the wife of your covenant. And did He not make one? And He had the remnant of the Spirit? And what is the one alone? He seeks a seed of Elohim. So you shall guard your spirit, and let none act treacherously against the wife of his youth. "For I hate SHALACH (sending away)," said Yahweh Elohim of Yisra’el, "and the one who covers his garment with cruelty," said Yahweh of hosts. "So you shall guard your spirit, and do not act treacherously."
It seems clear that it is the acting treacherously against the wife of one's youth that is the subject of objection here. God says He hates "shalach" here in Mal. 2:16, yet it is the same word He uses in Jer. 3:8 when He Himself "shalach"'s Israel. The difference is not merely a certificate of cutting off, but rather the treacherous act the husband is committing against her without cause. When the husband SHALACH (sends away) his wife, it is supposed to be a punishment; a necessary consequence of marital unfaithfulness on the part of the wife. Without the required "matter of uncoveredness", the SHALACH (sending away) is unwarranted, UNJUSTIFIED, despite any certificate of KERIYTHUWTH (cutting off from marriage).
This was precisely why the Pharisees asked Jesus the question about whether it was lawful to "put away" one's wife for any reason, and His response was that, outside the "matter of whoring", to do so would be adultery.
Matt. 19:3-9: "And the Pharisees came to Him, trying Him, and saying to Him, "Is it right for a man to put away his wife for every reason?" And He answering, said to them, "Did you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what Elohim has joined together, let man not separate." They said to Him, "Why then did Mosheh command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts, Mosheh allowed you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever puts away his wife, except on the ground of whoring, and marries another, commits adultery. And whoever marries her who has been put away commits adultery."
We can see that the whole "certificate of divorce" argument was brought up and refuted by Jesus Himself. What God hates is UNJUSTIFIED divorce, being treacherous to the wife of one's youth, not merely the lack of a certificate of divorce.
I hope this helps bring clarity to the whole issue of whether "divorcement" is a sin or not. If used properly, it is a necessary consequence. If used improperly, it is most definitely a sin. God spiritually cut off physical Israel for her spiritual adultery and in that, he did not sin, because it was justified.
David
sixth_heretic
Member
Is divorce a sin? That is the question.
Concerning the old testament Jesu our lord said this about the law concerning divorce and puting away your wives.
Jesus said that
Matt.19
[8] He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
[9] And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Jesus said that the oldtestament only alowed divorce because of the jews hardness of heart. But Jesus amended that saying you can only put away your wife for the cause of fornication.
Jesus was not confused on this subject. The only time Divorce is lawful is if there is fornication. That was his comandment as our lord.
This was not the first time jesus amended the old testament.
Remember eye for an eye? But now it is turn the other cheek.
Divorce used to be allowed for many reasons but now the only reason for divorce is fornication.
My lord is not a liar. I believe every word he tells me as should you.
Concerning the old testament Jesu our lord said this about the law concerning divorce and puting away your wives.
Jesus said that
Matt.19
[8] He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
[9] And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Jesus said that the oldtestament only alowed divorce because of the jews hardness of heart. But Jesus amended that saying you can only put away your wife for the cause of fornication.
Jesus was not confused on this subject. The only time Divorce is lawful is if there is fornication. That was his comandment as our lord.
This was not the first time jesus amended the old testament.
Remember eye for an eye? But now it is turn the other cheek.
Divorce used to be allowed for many reasons but now the only reason for divorce is fornication.
My lord is not a liar. I believe every word he tells me as should you.
^_^ said:
And what if the man were to have misrepresented himself to the woman?
^_^
Member
I really wish I knew the answer to that question.
Th only mention of a woman leaving a man that I can recall is in Paul's writings and that was a theoretical thing not an actual example given. I'm sure it did happen and if anyone has more info on this I'd appreciate the input so I can study more
edit: Actually one could say Hagar left Abraham, but the messenger of Yahweh told her to go back. Then later Sarah requested of Abraham that Hagar be sent away, and Yahweh said go ahead and do it. Seems there again there was the issue of heart hardness... but who's heart was hard? Hagar left because Sarah oppressed her, yes, my question is was Sarah truly oppressive or did Hagar feel oppressed because she was rebellious and Sarah was trying to keep order?
Th only mention of a woman leaving a man that I can recall is in Paul's writings and that was a theoretical thing not an actual example given. I'm sure it did happen and if anyone has more info on this I'd appreciate the input so I can study more
edit: Actually one could say Hagar left Abraham, but the messenger of Yahweh told her to go back. Then later Sarah requested of Abraham that Hagar be sent away, and Yahweh said go ahead and do it. Seems there again there was the issue of heart hardness... but who's heart was hard? Hagar left because Sarah oppressed her, yes, my question is was Sarah truly oppressive or did Hagar feel oppressed because she was rebellious and Sarah was trying to keep order?
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