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"I'm Coming Out!" (The Right Way & The Wrong Way)

Doc

Doc

Member
Real Person
The old Diana Ross song has been co-opted by the homosexual community for years, but until we find a better term, 'coming out' sort of sums it up.

I would like to hear from those who have made the revelation to family, friends and beyond that you advocate or are open to Christian plural marriage. I think enough of us have done it the wrong way....I would like to hear about the right way!

Especially I would like to hear about:

*Revelations to parents
*Revelations to current in-laws
*Revelations to adult children
*Revelations to minor children

Thanks,
 
Doc,
Chaplains Rose and I have not come out as of yet, in our beliefs to my nor her parents. I have though shared with my kids, in a round about way, my feelings and beliefs on Biblical plural marriage. My son saw it on my "MY Space" page and his first reaction was grouse. As we talked a bit, he agreed that I would never do anything that scripture would not allow me to do, and he also knows that Miss. J is already a big part of the family. So he said, what ever, but does not condemn me for it. My middle and youngest daughters are like..... hey, cool.....we know and love Miss. J already and we know you love mom and we love you and you love God..... so cool........ My oldest daughter has not really commented about it and I do not foresee her doing so. She, like my other children, has known J from way back when and has grown up with J around all the time anyway. She knows that her mom really cares for J and that I do as well. With her and her husband living in another town, we do not see each other often and with J living on her own......lets just say, once the Covenant Agreement is fully accepted by J....my kids will know what is going on and will be ok about it.

Know as far as my in-laws go....they might think it kinda strange and not fully agree with it, but I feel they would be like....its your life, so do what you want........of course that would be should J move in with us. If she does not move in then I feel they will be like ...well its none of our business what y'all do just as it is not your business what we do.......but there would be no ill feelings toward J for they have known her a long time as well.

As far as my parents go.....I have made some comments in general about sharing a home with J as the rest of the kids leave as a means of helping her out and all my mom said was to be careful for you never know what her (J's ) kids may do about moving back in with their mom. I would not officially tell my parents for they are getting up in age and do live in another state.

As far as my sister goes......don't really care what she thinks about it, so would not tell her anything. I will let her believe what she wishes.
 
docburkhart said:
I would like to hear from those who have made the revelation to family, friends and beyond that you advocate or are open to Christian plural marriage. I think enough of us have done it the wrong way....I would like to hear about the right way!
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Arghhhh!

I don't think I am ready to "out" this relationship to our respective families ...
 
Well, we don't have a second, but our views arn't really particularly open or closed from others. Our friends all know our views, one of her sisters does and my Dads side of the family knows. So far we haven't run into anyone with a particular problem with it, though we've tarried with the topic with our Church as we don't have a practical life example presently. Her dad will probably be fine in the end, he is a pastor but fairly practically minded, and we've had hypothetical discussions on closely related issues several times over the last few years. Anndrea is a major part of our poly decision so it isnt as if I can be blamed. Her mother might be harder, but that is yet to see. Our kids are very young and are used to many people around anyway, I doubt it will be a hard transition unless it takes quite a while for us to find our third.

So, in the end I guess I'm not sure what the wrong way is, as unpopular as polygamy is in the media we hang around real people rather than tv droids, so there is less of a culture shock. Really most of our friends are abstract or out of the box in some way anyway. Still, discretion is the better part of valour in some cases, and we tarry until the best moment to discuss polygamy with some people.
 
I tell everyone I am a nonpracticing polygynist. When I have a second wife I will tell people I am a practicing polygynist. I like the Persecution.
 
sixth_heretic said:
I tell everyone I am a nonpracticing polygynist. When I have a second wife I will tell people I am a practicing polygynist. I like the Persecution.[/quote

We have not come out completely, but the amount we have has not been good. I was a pastor of a small church and I could say that I believe in polygamy, but when you become a polygynist, that changes everything. As you see it says, I was a pastor & I also owned two christian bookstores. As you can see that is also past tense. The people that did find out sure spread the word fast. -And boycotted the stores. I went from owning 2 homes, one was a women's abuse center, an apartment house, 2 book stores and a good ministry. Within a month we will have lost everything. I don't share this for you to feel sorry, but in everything we do and not do, say or not say has a consequence. To say you like persecution, so you will tell, really bothered me. For one the decisions we make have affects on many people and some of them are our loved ones. Second, it is not about loosing everything because I still have my wives and children and the Lord, but all this has been a challenge. Especially, "Where is God in all this?" Especially when you have people telling you it is all happening because of your life style. My suggestion is to pray, count the cost and then pray some more and then move forward slowly. Because each of us has different things God is dealing with. For most of us it is not about taking another wife or not; but what is God doing through taking another wife? Because there will be ramifications good and bad. That is my 2 cents. Pastor
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We have talked to people....

From church, some employees, some family, etc.

The right way involves(but is not limited to).....

Knowing God's word in and out regarding not just the poly scriptures, but what place poly has in your life and the life of your family and church family. Do you follow God and His Word unto death. Will you cling to Him and to His plan for your life no matter what, even if polygamy is not in the future for you. Truly know how important this is for you.

Knowing God's word regarding sin, God's character, and condemnation, etc. because you might be accused of leading others into sin and therefore going to hell because of it. Most talks that I have had would have been pointless if we had not established a basic understanding of what the Bible says sin is and is not, as well as the definitions of adultery, wife, sin,etc. If someone thinks that God changes, or tolerates sin, etc., then you are going to have a hard time debating any topic from scripture.

Making sure that your wife knows the scripture, because they might gang up on her when you are not there, they might try to "rescue" her, and they might try to condemn you through her, by her, and with her. She should study this to know how she believes first.

Make sure that you know how your wife feels about coming out regarding this issue. She might fully acknowledge the validity of biblical polygamy, but not want to open herself up to any ridicule or judgement that might occur. You might look like a fool if you are coming out and she seems embarrassed. It will make you look like she was just going along with you to appease you, or that you acted alone without her. We talked with friends first, but they talked to others so the coming out to the whole church was sprung on us.

Make sure that you know whether or not you both are interested, curious, or not interested in pursuing this as a lifestyle choice. If she understands the validity of it, but is not wanting it for her husband, then you might look like you are going ahead with it against her wishes and then the "rescue" attempts will only be stronger. It is better to say that you are not pursuing. This worked well for us, although my wife has told others that it might be 2 or 3 years down the road.

Make sure that you stress the biblical side to this polygamy, ie., no child brides, no incest, no rape, no force, no adultery. "No, I am not going to ask for your daughter's hand." I have had to stress this point to several friends and it helped.

Make sure that you understand the inherently combustible nature of this topic. The people that I thought would be irate, were not. Some of the ones that I avoided talking to about the subject have come to me and said that they don't see it as sin and to each his own. I will say to not be surprised if there are some that act cool and then gossip, stab, and attack in deceptive manners, because we are talking about the church, the only place where they shoot their own wounded. I did not realize this would happen in our church and it has been hard to see that people actually do cling to culture and tradition above God's Word.

Make sure that you know that there will be some that agree with everything you say scripturally and still tell you that if you even continue to believe this is acceptable then they would prefer to never fellowship with you again, let alone worship or pray together. I did not think this would happen either especially since we said to all from the beginning that we were still researching this topic.

We have told most people that we are studying this still and only want truth. Most "scholars" pastors, elders, etc. we have asked to "help" us with the topic. This works well because it is help, not us forcing our views. It is also important because the church forces their view of marriage onto every believer. So, they are conditioned into thinking that whatever is decided in the church about marriage has to be chosen for every one. Wives freak out about if their men are going to take another wife, husbands oppose you because they don't want to face their angry wives when they get home. "If you didn't set them straight then you are in trouble, dear." "oh, trust me honey, I won't stop until they repent.""Good boy, now take out the trash."

Make sure that you are sensitive to others backgrounds. We did have one person ask about getting information from us on our study, which verses we studied, any commentaries, etc. that we had read for and against. We held off for a little while and then gave the info to the person. We did not know at the time that the person was a "rescuer". "Rescuer" with a history of adultery in their own marriage. We would have refused to open up if we would have known about the past issues. While I do not agree with the typical stumbling block interpretations regarding controversial topics like this one, I could have been more loving and patient and not pushed the issue as much as I did after we opened up about it. In my defense, I did feel like we had been attacked.

These are my observations so far.
 
pastor said:
I was a pastor of a small church and I could say that I believe in polygamy, but when you become a polygynist, that changes everything. As you see it says, I was a pastor & I also owned two christian bookstores. As you can see that is also past tense. The people that did find out sure spread the word fast. -And boycotted the stores. I went from owning 2 homes, one was a women's abuse center, an apartment house, 2 book stores and a good ministry. Within a month we will have lost everything.
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That is a powerful, sobering testimony, pastor. Thank you for sharing.

I think that often times, when people first discover for themselves the lawfulness of polygynous marriage, they start planning how they will decide to have multiple wives. Perhaps it's a natural inclination when you find something is available to you that you didn't know about before. But not everyone is actually called to live in a polygynous marriage. Some men are meant to be celibate, some are meant to have one wife, and some are meant to have several wives. And anytime we go against the grain, we can expect persecution, especially from within the Body. (A number of unbelievers have said they would be happy to accept Christ, if not for all the Christians.)

Now, I know that some Believers actually have a persecution complex and enjoy feeling like the world is always working against them. But aside from the ultra-spiritual "me vs. the system" types, there are many others who are called to provide a covering for another wife, and yet they are hesitant because of the fear of consequences. And there are others who come to an understanding of true Biblical marriage, yet are not themselves called to polygyny. Every part of the Body has its purpose and function. Perhaps one person can't hear the truth from a foot (who happens to have three wives) but can hear it from an arm (who has no wives). We are each called to serve in our own capacity and not necessarily to minister to the same audience.

As I only have one wife but am a strong proponent of Biblical marriage, I know I can sometimes make a connection to somebody that I probably wouldn't be able to make if I had multiple wives myself. As unfair as it may be, many Christians will immediately discount anything a man might say regarding the lawfulness of polygyny when he himself has multiple wives. I believe we would do well to have more single and monogynous men proclaiming the truth to the masses for it to take hold in our generation and that of our children's.

Pastor, despite the tremendous challenges you have already faced, I'm convinced that God will turn it all around for good in the end. You may end up suffering greatly to stand against the cultural norms, but with God's help, your children will perhaps have an easier time of things by seeing your example of standing for truth against the odds. If we could see the end results for just a moment, I doubt you would do a single thing differently, despite the hard times ahead. All we need do is follow, regardless where He leads us. Stay blessed and keep your eye on the prize!

Love in Him,
David
 
David I agree with you.
The persecution complex I can remember thinking before I became a Pastor (ok at times even when I was a pastor) that every one was against me. Over time, came to realize most of the time it was my own doing. Because of my pride and my big mouth. I try to be slow to speak, more so now. Still suffer peresution which we all will if we are following The Lord. Try to be the peace maker when I can and don't have to be right every time. (I try)
Then you have those with fear of man complex (me included) Yes there are those who should step up to the plate an take a second wife, but fear what the world will say. I think most of us have things that we should be doing that we aren't, because of fear of what man will say. We all have some kind of fear or trust issues. Just imagine what the world would be like if we got out of the boat on just half of the things the Lord asked us to do. We let fear, we let our doctrine, our up bringing, friends, family and the list goes on to decide our out come.
For my life I might not like what is going on, but it is exciting at the same time. Because I know my God loves me. Years ago I was a pastor in N.H. And God one day decided to turn my life up side down, and said resign and go to maine. It was a scary time in my life because he didn't tell me where in Maine just go. To make a long story short. That is what we did got in our van and drove untill we felt to stop. We spent the next 3 months living in a tent but he lead us to where we are now. Wouldn't pass up that experience helped us grow in the Lord and an awsome testimony. It will help me get through the next part of the journey. Like Peter getting out of the boat isn't the hardest thing for me, it is when I get out and then I begin to look around, instead of keeping my eyes on the Lord.
So I hope when I look around at the storms that I will have someone to get me looking where I am suppose too.
David just wanted to say thanks for the encourging word
 
Hi everyone,
After a few years I learned to choose my battles. For example, someone at work that one perceives will be very against it and can hurt your livelihood, has to be dealt with more discretion than a friend or family member one trusts. In our case, most of our extended family knows and a couple of friends at work, still, we must be careful, especially at work. It is mostly a casting pearls thing.. Of course, as a pastor I think it would be different because you are leading people, not just there to make money and that would not be honest. To hide how one feels about family and God's plan for us would be wrong because, after all, you are not just a hireling. Like He says, to whom much is given, much is required..
Discretion is important and I feel mostly it's discernment from God is what is needed.
Blessings,
Oscar
 
well put Pastor. Excellent. There will be both good and bad repercussions when we come out. I know that firsthand.
rm
 
Well put Oscar. Discernment will give us a different approach on each person/situation.
rm
 
sixth_heretic said:
I tell everyone I am a nonpracticing polygynist. When I have a second wife I will tell people I am a practicing polygynist. I like the Persecution.
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i tell them that i am already guilty of having committed poly in my heart, it kinda messes them up as they then do not know how to judge me
;)
 
Yikes ...

In some ways, my eldest daughter broached the topic, before I had seriously studied it for myself. Her Bible teacher had told them it was ok. That was cool, in a half rebellious, we're open minded teens way -- until, months later, her mom told her I was serious about it, and she (mom) was against it, and it was wrong, and I was just looking for an excuse to get some strange, and it felt like a knife in her heart, and ... then I turned into a demented demon. At this point, she's refusing all contact with me.

My youngest son said, "Oh, SHEEZ! Then there would be TWO women saying, 'Do this! Do that! Do this! Do that!' ". I kinda had to laugh because that was a fairly accurate description of Life with Mom as he knew it.

My older son told me to just get over my mid-life crisis. Oddly enough, since then he has come around. Said that our divorce (Audrey divorced me in 2001, met Cindy over a year later) was the best thing that had happened to our family, and told Cindy "Thanks for making my dad so happy. I've never ever in my life seen him this happy."

My mom said that it just couldn't be right, or else the Seventh-day Adventist church would be teaching it. That is seriously troubling.

An uncle had maintained a long term relationship with another woman for years. He was thrown out of the church, and his wife, my mom's sister, told that she had to divorce him. He spent time with both women, provided for both women, continued to be loving to both, paid tithes, kept the Sabbath, ... just had two women. This was before I got serious about PM. However, while his kids were giving him grief everywhichaway, I wrote and told him that so far as I could tell he was dealing honorably with a difficult situation, and simply had two wives. My aunt told the church folk that nothing in scripture required her to divorce him, and refused to do so. She remains glad that she made that choice, so she wasn't a problem. And her experience has mellowed my mom, though she refuses to agree, no matter what scripture she sees.

My brothers' responses were basically, "Why on earth would you want to do THAT?!" Looking at their marriages at the time, I can sadly understand their responses.

Let's see ... one of Audrey's and my long time friends, who had just remarried after being single for a number of years, said, "Drat it, Cecil! Why didn't you decide this before I got married? Do you have any IDEA how long I thought about you and I getting together?" That was a shocker! Especially as I'd thought the same, but had been very careful not to act on it due to my monogamist upbringing.

As mentioned elsewhere, pastors have been all over the board from disfellowshipping me to saying, "Interesting. Can you do special music this Sabbath?" One decided to really 'deal' with me, and ended up losing his church when his elders realized how he'd handled it, and that he wasn't making it right. Cindy and I still go to visit folks from that church, and remain close friends with the elders and their families.

Other church members' reactions seem mostly to be, "Huh!" I don't think that's right, but will have to study it for myself." Not too much horror.

In one case, a whole bunch of us (from a church where we had told the pastor our beliefs but not the members) were out to dinner, and they started talking about an upcoming valentines banquet. One of the ladies was asked what she was going to do, as her husband never would do stuff like that. She airily replied, "Oh, I'll just go with Cecil and Cindy. Cecil can be a polygamist for the night!" She had no idea ... you shoulda seen the pastor's face. :lol:

Although it wasn't the excuse given, I do think I lost one job over it. Oh, well. Turned out to work perfectly for God's plan. Didn't MAKE my $4,800 the next month *sob*, I made a bit over $10,000! ROFLOL

A number of co-workers know of my beliefs and are cool with it. Some have watched the Big Love series, which I think did us both good and bad (the latter by tying it to the fundamentalist mormon compound drama). General reaction seems to be, "fine for you, but I couldn't do it."

That's about it.
 
We have a great bunch of friends ( 3 couples that are very close to us). They all know and are supportive of us. We recently told my father about our decision. Now to understand his reaction I should give ya'll a bit of back ground. It's only been in the last 5 years or so that daddy and I have gotten along. (He's a young 67 and I'm almost 45). I'm sure everyone on the planet knows Jeff Foxworthy, so I'll say that Daddy told redneck jokes long before he did. I often wonder if Jeff F met Daddy at some point and got the idea for his stand up routine. :lol: (yep, just about everything Foxworthy has said could apply to my father's side of the family) As we've learned to get along I've discovered a very spiritual side of him and realized that he's not the ogre my mother painted him to be. So anyway he and my step mom were here and we were sitting out back and I asked them what they knew about and thought of polygamy. The debate was on!! It was actually fun. When we told them that Sis (daddy's neice, actually my cousin) was going to become hubby's second wife next month, Daddy's reply was, "She's been here with ya'll over a month, do ya'll think we're stupid?" And he laughed. Sis asked him if it was ok with him, and he looked at all three of us and said that as long as we were all happy, that it was fine with him. WHEW!! What a relief that was. So our first experience with "coming out"to family has been a pretty good one. Not sure if I'll ever tell my mother, but, that's ok, too.
Clyde
 
CecilW said:
Let's see ... one of Audrey's and my long time friends, who had just remarried after being single for a number of years, said, "Drat it, Cecil! Why didn't you decide this before I got married? Do you have any IDEA how long I thought about you and I getting together?" That was a shocker! Especially as I'd thought the same, but had been very careful not to act on it due to my monogamist upbringing.
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Sad, sad story.
 
clyde44 said:
So anyway he and my step mom were here and we were sitting out back and I asked them what they knew about and thought of polygamy. The debate was on!! It was actually fun. When we told them that Sis (daddy's neice, actually my cousin) was going to become hubby's second wife next month, Daddy's reply was, "She's been here with ya'll over a month, do ya'll think we're stupid?" And he laughed. Sis asked him if it was ok with him, and he looked at all three of us and said that as long as we were all happy, that it was fine with him. WHEW!! What a relief that was. So our first experience with "coming out"to family has been a pretty good one. Not sure if I'll ever tell my mother, but, that's ok, too.
Clyde
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Right on! I'm really glad that you had such a wonderful experience.

I've told my family about my situation and they're cool with it, as they also believe that the Torah is for all. My situation is that I have been abandoned by my wife and taken another. I haven't divorced my wayward, adulterous wife and I hope that she will return one day.

However, on the Christian front I've been disfellowshipped for my beliefs by my "friends". That isn't at all pleasant. The way it all came to a head was after I heard one of the elders speak negatively about what Moshe K. (known as RavMoshe in this forum) was doing. Though I totally disagree with his heretical gnostic beliefs, I stood up for Moshe's polygynous beliefs and ended up being told that I was no longer welcome in the congregation if I would say that polygyny is acceptable.
 
brYce said:
[]
Right on! I'm really glad that you had such a wonderful experience..
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brYce
It really was wonderful. I was so shocked, but in a good way, that Daddy reacted the way he did. A few days later he called back and said that he and my step mom had been praying for and about us all and he felt like since my cousin's father had already passed, he wanted to "give her away", cause he thought her dad would like the idea of her marrying hubby. She has always been daddy's favorite niece and I was her dad's favorite. So not only did he take the "coming out" well, he's going to be here for the ceremony.We were all in very happy emotional tears when the call was over.
I'm sorry that you were asked to leave your church for your defense of polygamy. That must have been really tough for you.
Clyde44
 
duelingbanjos said:
I would like to hear from those who have made the revelation to family, friends and beyond that you advocate or are open to Christian plural marriage. I think enough of us have done it the wrong way....I would like to hear about the right way!

Especially I would like to hear about:

*Revelations to parents
*Revelations to current in-laws
*Revelations to adult children
*Revelations to minor children

Thanks,
Click to expand...


I would like to respond to the "Revelations to minor children" part.
About four years ago, our family was taking a walk beside a park...my children were about 13, 10 and 3. I started the discussion with "Did you know..." and explained everything that the Bible has to say about marriage and examples of plural marriage in the Bible...it went something like, Did you know that in the Bible there are families that had two wives?...it must have been nice to have an extra mommy to bake cookies huh! ...and "even today there are families who have two mothers and it's nice because they can help each other and be friends. My oldest said, "Is that something you would ever want to do?" and I said well, if God brought along the situation, I am open to whatever God has for our family and she said, "But, wouldn't it make you sad to see your husband kissing another woman?" (which I thought was an excellent question) and I responded with, "Well...it wouldn't just be "another woman" it would be someone that I was best friends with and cared about and I would want her to be happy too and feel loved too." and my oldest said, "Well, I would never want to be in marriage like that." and I said, "and that's perfectly fine, sweetie, you will marry someday as God leads...marrying the right person or people is certainly a big decision and definitely requires a lot of prayer."
My ten year old son said, "I would never do that either...can we go back to the train park now?" and my almost four year old said, " Jacob should have looked under the bale...her daddy shouldn't have tode
her to wear that bale"
So that was it...initially. In the last few years, they have seen me befriend poly people...seen me online at Biblical Families, and have read many Biblical accounts. My then almost four year old will be eight in a couple of weeks and it's old news to him now. So I would say, the younger the better, but with older children always affirm their responses even if they seem negative...and be prepared to answer their questions and even be a little transparent with them.
If your teenager says, "That SO gay...ohmygod." You can say, "I know it seems like a strange idea in our country because we don't see if often, and it's definitely not for everyone, but if you ever have any questions or want to talk about it some more, I am here."
One thing I have also noticed when winning your teenager's heart regarding this subject is what I call "projecting the desired attitude." With my oldest, we had our annual Thanksgiving discussion about polygamy (I was "outed" to my entire family by a cousin one Thanksgiving) and we were reminicing about that Thanksgiving and before she said too much I said, "You know, I have always been so thankful for you and how you support me in every way...I love you so much and am so glad that you are always on my side....I'm so lucky to have such a supportive daughter..." and she then made several supportive statements. lol
In any case, that is how I initially told my children.
-Love
 
Updated thoughts:

My eldest daughter, the one who was shunning me, is now in Thailand. Said she had to get out of the US. Hmmm. She now e-mails me most every week, and we connect by phone when possible. Hmmm.

I don't wear a big badge or T-shirt (most of the time) advocating PM. I don't feel compelled to tell everyone. Any more than I would feel compelled to advertise that I was monogamist, rabidly celibate, or gay.

But I've told pretty much thesame folks I would tell. Mainly Family first, Church second (or at least church leadership), and some co-workers who have become friends.

This serves two purposes which I consider to be highly valuable:

a) No stress to me. I ain't gotta keep mah stories straight, ya know? If they get stressed, ain't mah prollem!
b) There's no foothold for a sense of betrayal on their part, for the accusation that I've been living a lie by omission, by not telling them the truth. I feel that the sense of shock they have to deal with over the subject matter is quite adequate for one jolt without having it compounded by the sense that I've been keeping something from them.

On the other hand, as of this writing, there are members of my family who have pretty well forfeited their right to any further candor just now. That saddens me beyond words.

Wonderful post, btw, Love. Good luck as your life and family expands.
 
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