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Government's Role over Man to Man Relations

...that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans...

That is not a command to hate the Nicolaitans, but to hate their deeds. (If it is a command...)

Psa 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
Psa 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Matthew 5:43-45 NKJV "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' (44) But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, (45) that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
How can we share the Gospel with someone we hate?

Hate what they are, do not hate what they can be.

Our love for what they can be, and hatred for what they are can compel us strongly to try to change what they are.

If you just share how to change what they do and not their inner attitude and who they are, you have not shared the gospel, at least not in full

Intent is very important and not just action.

Why, for instance whether or not someone is punished for killing someone can be based on whether or not they intended to.

Should you punish the action and not the actor and execute everyone regardless of intent and mitigating circumstances? Or should you punish the actor and not the action and execute only those who murdered with murderous intention

1 When the LORD your God has destroyed the nations whose land he is giving you, and when you have driven them out and settled in their towns and houses, 2 then set aside for yourselves three cities in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess. 3 Determine the distances involved and divide into three parts the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, so that a person who kills someone may flee for refuge to one of these cities.

4 This is the rule concerning anyone who kills a person and flees there for safety—anyone who kills a neighbor unintentionally, without malice aforethought. 5 For instance, a man may go into the forest with his neighbor to cut wood, and as he swings his ax to fell a tree, the head may fly off and hit his neighbor and kill him. That man may flee to one of these cities and save his life. 6 Otherwise, the avenger of blood might pursue him in a rage, overtake him if the distance is too great, and kill him even though he is not deserving of death, since he did it to his neighbor without malice aforethought. 7 This is why I command you to set aside for yourselves three cities.

8 If the LORD your God enlarges your territory, as he promised on oath to your ancestors, and gives you the whole land he promised them, 9 because you carefully follow all these laws I command you today—to love the LORD your God and to walk always in obedience to him—then you are to set aside three more cities. 10 Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance, and so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed.

11 But if out of hate someone lies in wait, assaults and kills a neighbor, and then flees to one of these cities, 12 the killer shall be sent for by the town elders, be brought back from the city, and be handed over to the avenger of blood to die. 13 Show no pity. You must purge from Israel the guilt of shedding innocent blood, so that it may go well with you.

14 Do not move your neighbor’s boundary stone set up by your predecessors in the inheritance you receive in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess.
Deuteronomy 19:1-14 NIV 2010

6 “Six of the towns you give the Levites will be cities of refuge, to which a person who has killed someone may flee. In addition, give them forty-two other towns. 7 In all you must give the Levites forty-eight towns, together with their pasturelands. 8 The towns you give the Levites from the land the Israelites possess are to be given in proportion to the inheritance of each tribe: Take many towns from a tribe that has many, but few from one that has few.”

9 Then the LORD said to Moses: 10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, 11 select some towns to be your cities of refuge, to which a person who has killed someone accidentally may flee. 12 They will be places of refuge from the avenger, so that anyone accused of murder may not die before they stand trial before the assembly. 13 These six towns you give will be your cities of refuge. 14 Give three on this side of the Jordan and three in Canaan as cities of refuge. 15 These six towns will be a place of refuge for Israelites and for foreigners residing among them, so that anyone who has killed another accidentally can flee there.

16 “‘If anyone strikes someone a fatal blow with an iron object, that person is a murderer; the murderer is to be put to death. 17 Or if anyone is holding a stone and strikes someone a fatal blow with it, that person is a murderer; the murderer is to be put to death. 18 Or if anyone is holding a wooden object and strikes someone a fatal blow with it, that person is a murderer; the murderer is to be put to death. 19 The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death; when the avenger comes upon the murderer, the avenger shall put the murderer to death. 20 If anyone with malice aforethought shoves another or throws something at them intentionally so that they die 21 or if out of enmity one person hits another with their fist so that the other dies, that person is to be put to death; that person is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when they meet.

22 “‘But if without enmity someone suddenly pushes another or throws something at them unintentionally 23 or, without seeing them, drops on them a stone heavy enough to kill them, and they die, then since that other person was not an enemy and no harm was intended, 24 the assembly must judge between the accused and the avenger of blood according to these regulations. 25 The assembly must protect the one accused of murder from the avenger of blood and send the accused back to the city of refuge to which they fled. The accused must stay there until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the holy oil.

26 “‘But if the accused ever goes outside the limits of the city of refuge to which they fled 27 and the avenger of blood finds them outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder. 28 The accused must stay in the city of refuge until the death of the high priest; only after the death of the high priest may they return to their own property.

29 “‘This is to have the force of law for you throughout the generations to come, wherever you live.

30 “‘Anyone who kills a person is to be put to death as a murderer only on the testimony of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

31 “‘Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. They are to be put to death.

32 “‘Do not accept a ransom for anyone who has fled to a city of refuge and so allow them to go back and live on their own land before the death of the high priest.

33 “‘Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it. 34 Do not defile the land where you live and where I dwell, for I, the LORD, dwell among the Israelites.’”

Numbers 35:6-33 NIV 2010

Are you familiar with the discussion between Christian and Ignorance in Pilgrims progress by John Bunyan?

Look at point 3. There is a difference between Christ forgiving someone's actions and forgiving their person. It is not merely someone's actions that must be both forgiven and changed but instead it is the nature of the person itself that must be forgiven and changed. People are punished for who they choose to be. God punishes sinners for choosing to be sinners. There is much more that can be gathered from point three that I did not write.

I highly disagree with hate the sin and love the sinner, if it is understood in a certain way.

because "3. This faith makes not Christ a justifier of thy person, but of thy actions" which is false

http://www.covenantofgrace.com/pilgrims_progress_christian_and_ignorance.htm said:
Ign. What are good thoughts concerning God?

Chr. Even (as I have said concerning ourselves) when our thoughts of God do agree with what the Word saith of him; and that is when we think of his being and attributes as the Word hath taught, of which I cannot now discourse at large. But to speak of him with reference to us: then we have right thoughts of God when we think that he knows us better than we know ourselves, and can see sin in us when and where we can see none in ourselves; when we think he knows our inmost thoughts, and that our heart with all its depths is always open unto his eyes; also, when we think that all our righteousness stinks in his nostrils, and that therefore he cannot abide to see us stand before him in any confidence even of all our best performances.

Ign. Do you think that I am such a fool as to think God can see no further than I? or that I would come to God in the best of my performances?

Chr. Why, how dost thou think in this matter?

Ign. Why, to be short, I think I must believe in Christ for justification.

Chr. How think thou must believe in Christ, when thou seest not thy need of him! Thou neither seest thy original nor actual infirmities; but hast such an opinion of thyself and of what thou doest, as plainly renders thee to be one that did never see a necessity of Christ's personal righteousness to justify thee before God. How then dost thou say, "I believe in Christ?"

Ign. I believe well enough for all that.

Chr. How dost thou believe?

Ign. I believe that Christ died for sinners; and that I shall be justified before God from the curse, through his gracious acceptance of my obedience to his law; or thus, Christ makes my duties that are religious acceptable to his Father by virtue of his merits, and so shall I be justified.

Chr. Let me give an answer to this confession of thy faith:

1. Thou believest with a fantastical faith; for this faith is nowhere described in the Word.

2. Thou believest with a false faith; because it taketh justification from the personal righteousness of Christ, and applies it to thy own.

3. This faith makes not Christ a justifier of thy person, but of thy actions; and of thy person for thy actions' sake, which is false.

4. Therefore this faith is deceitful, even such as will leave thee under wrath in the day of God Almighty; for true justifying faith puts the soul (as sensible of its lost condition by the law) upon flying for refuge unto Christ's righteousness – which righteousness of his is not an act of grace by which he makes for justification thy obedience accepted with God; but his personal obedience to the law in doing and suffering for us what that required at our hands. This righteousness, I say, true faith accepts; under the skirt of which, the soul being shrouded, and by it presented as spotless before God, it is accepted, and acquitted from condemnation.

Ign. What! would you have us trust to what Christ in his own person has done without us? This conceit would loosen the reins of our lust, and tolerate us to live as we list; for what matter how we live, if we may be justified by Christ's personal righteousness from all, when we believe it?

Chr. IGNORANCE is thy name; and as thy name is, so art thou: even this thy answer demonstrateth what I say. Ignorant thou art of what justifying righteousness is; and as ignorant how to secure thy soul, through the faith of it, from the heavy wrath of God. Yea, thou also art ignorant of the true effects of saving faith in this righteousness of Christ: which is, to bow and win over the heart to God in Christ, to love his name, his Word, ways, and people; and not as thou ignorantly imaginest.

http://www.covenantofgrace.com/pilgrims ... orance.htm
 
The Rev quote isn't as clean as I first read it, I'll grant its referring to their deeds.

Sharing the Gospel with someone who hates Christ is also kind of a moot point, they had to hear of Christ to hate him, the people David boasted of hating had already made their decision. Anyway, hate isn't the opposite of love, or even exclusive of it, if it was Luke 14:26 would be quite a problem for any kind of family oriented Christian group.

Our love for what they can be, and hatred for what they are can compel us strongly to try to change what they are.

I love this line Discussing, thanks for that.
 
Tlaloc said:
Sharing the Gospel with someone who hates Christ is also kind of a moot point, they had to hear of Christ to hate him

Is it possible to believe there is no something you never heard of? And how can someone who does not exist cause all of life's problems anyway?


http://www.covenantofgrace.com/pilgrims_progress_atheist.htm said:
ATHEIST

Now after awhile, they perceived afar off one coming softly and alone, all along the highway, to meet them. Then said CHRISTIAN to his fellow, "Yonder is a man with his back toward Zion; and he is coming to meet us."

Hope. I see him; let us take heed to ourselves now, lest he should prove a flatterer also.

So he drew nearer and nearer; and at last came up unto them. His name was ATHEIST; and he asked them whither they were going?

Chr. We are going to the Mount Zion.

Then ATHEIST fell into a very great laughter.

Chr. What is the meaning of your laughter?

Atheist. I laugh to see what ignorant persons you are, to take upon you so tedious a journey, and yet are like to have nothing but your travel for your pains.

Chr. Why, man; do you think we shall not be received?

Ath. Received! There is no such place as you dream of in all this world.

Chr. But there is in the world to come.

Ath. When I was at home in mine own country, I heard as you now affirm, and from that hearing went out to see; and have been seeking this city these twenty years, but find no more of it than I did the first day I set out.

"Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now." Jeremiah 17:15

"The labour of the foolish wearieth every one of them, because he knoweth not how to go to the city." Ecclesiastes 10:15

Chr. We have both heard and believe that there is such a place to be found.

Ath. Had not I, when at home, believed, I had not come thus far to seek; but finding none (and yet I should, had there been such a place to be found, for I have gone to seek it farther than you), I am going back again, and will seek to refresh myself with the things that I then cast away for hopes of that which I now see is not.

Chr. Then said CHRISTIAN to HOPEFUL, his fellow, "Is it true which this man hath said?"

Hope. "Take heed, he is one of the flatterers; remember what it hath cost us once already for our hearkening to such kind of fellows. What! no Mount Zion! did we not see from the Delectable Mountains the gate of the city? Also, are we not now to walk by faith? Let us go on," said HOPEFUL; "lest the man with the whip overtake us again. You should have taught me that lesson, which I will round you in the ears withal: 'Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causes to err from the words of knowledge.' I say, my brother, cease to hear him, and let us believe to the saving of the soul".

"Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge." Proverbs 19:27

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." Hebrews 10:39

Chr. My brother, I did not put the question to thee, for that I doubted of the truth of our belief myself; but to prove thee, and to fetch from thee a fruit of the honesty of thy heart. As for this man, I know that he is blinded by the god of this world: let thee and I go on, knowing that we have belief of the truth, and "no lie is of the truth".

"I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth." 1 John 2:21

Hope. Now do I rejoice in hope of the glory of God!

So they turned away from the man; and he, laughing at them, went his way.

By the way I wonder if they edited the text on this website or used the original pilgrims progress.

http://www.covenantofgrace.com/pilgrims ... theist.htm
 
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