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Fairness with material stuff

cubanito

cubanito

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Real Person
Male
Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been here in a while. I had some strong turbulence in my life lately.
Well, lately I have been talking with a possible candidate for a few months and last night ran into something awkward. I mentioned to my prospect I was buying my first wife a corset she wanted for the last couple of weeks and it was a little expensive (probably should not have said anything) but, she got upset or jealous because i was buying her something a little fancy and she did not get any fancy stuff from me, "just several smaller things". She said she felt second class but, I reminded her I just gave her a nice camera worth the same and I spend 5 times as much (per weekend) flying there to see her on the weekends. Each weekend is expensive just on hotels meals transportation, entertainment, meals, etc. I went there 5 times to see her in the last few months and she doesn’t consider that something worth counting, maybe she’s taking things for granted, my effort etc. It got ugly and we went to bed upset. Maybe we should lay down some ground rules about allowances and try to make things fair? I don't know, does anyone know what might be the best way to deal with that.
My first wife is very low maintenance and normally doesn't ask for much, she takes care of the home, kids, food, etc, I think she deserves a little something once in a while...
Is this a normal problem?
Any advice is appreciated.. Thanks
Cubanito
 
Hi Cubanito,

Is your wife also going with you on these visits to get to know this woman? I ask since it is important that they develop a strong friendship. I think if both of these women are bonding and developing a friendship they would care more for each other.

I have a potential candidate that is coming to visit me next month for the first time. She will get to to know my wife and start building a friendship with her during her visit. My wife and I are then planning to go visit her in July.

I just recommend that you make your wife a big part of this. If these women do not bond you have trouble down the road. I wish you the best. May God bless you and your family. Another Cubanito, Jorge
 
Thanks Jorge, that I think was my mistake. I went there alone these 5 times and now there is a growing feeling of jealousy from the candidate. She told me several times that it would have been nice if I was single or we would have met earlier in life. I told her jokingly she would have been very illegal. lol
There is a big age difference but on other points she is pretty mature and sweet.
You are right, the women should have been friends from the beginning, I don't know if this is repairable, only God knows.
Now I will have to try to repair mess. What a mess it is... The problem is a deeper one I guess..
Last weekend we all had planned to go visit but she freaked out the last 2 days before the visit and I just went with my oldest daughter. I had already rented a nice apartment for the weekend there and it was kind of a wasted space. Well, at least we cooked lasagna till 3AM. lol I feel a little manipulated and like i am trying too hard.
 
I think you need to let this one go! It will be painful and trust me, I know the feeling! However you have to do it right from the beginning or the problem will just get worse. Try to see if you can get both of these ladies to meet and if they get along well together. Otherwise start from scratch and make sure you find a woman that is interested in a plural marriage and not just you. Remember it is about the three of you! There are a lot of advantages to a plural marriage and you have to focus on that. Stop wasting your money on this woman. She should be grateful in just spending time with you since you are a good man. God bless you and your family. Jorge
 
Of course I don't know her, but I have to say that the fact that she was wishing you were single is telling me she has a hidden agenda. And the fact that she doesn't appreciate the time and money you spend coming to see her tells me that she doesn't have an attitude of gratitude.

I can't say that I agree with jorgema, because I don't know the whole story, but if things are already working to her being possessive and wanting everything to be completely equal she doesn't really have the mindset it takes to handle this relationship.

She needs to understand that God never promised us a rose garden and no one ever promised us life would be fair. She needs to study the word and find out where her "fairness" comes from.

And, this might be too conservative for some people, but a corset is a very personal item that should only be given to someone you are intimate with. If you are in a dating relationship with her then a camera is a perfectly beautiful gift and much more appropriate.

One more thing and I will shut up. She is not appreciating the time and expense you go to to see her, but the gift she is not appreciating is the gift of you. If she doesn't appreciate that now, then she never will.

Keep in mind that T and I love gifts and hubby does his best to treat us equally, but it isn't always fair and we all know it.

SweetLissa
 
Ok... before we lynch this woman and label her as some sort of evil home wrecker could we try reading a little between the lines here? Reading through the responses i have a few points. I call it as i see it but i don't mean to upset anyone, so sorry if i do, it's not intentional.

Not involving all parties from the start is bound to cause awkwardness and it's the hubby's responsibility to make that happen.

Calling her "the candidate"? That's a little sad, she is a person who probably has strong feelings for this man and concerned about where she fits into his life. Maybe these fly in visits leave her feeling like a mistress.... not a nice feeling.

Call me old fashioned but i think the cost of a courtship rests with the man. I don't think it's fair to count these expenses as money spent on this lady.

Also buying lingerie (a corset is an intimate item, i know i make them) should be a private thing you are bound to inspire jealousy by telling about this gift. Best to keep these gifts between yourself and the lady you are buying them for. Trust me, i bet she was not upset about the cost , it's the sentiment that is the issue. Of course thats just a tip, YMMV.

As for her wishing she had met you when you were single. I think maybe that can be considered a compliment, unless she is proposing that you leave your wife and run away with her then maybe she is just wishing she had you all to herself for awhile to experience that type of one on one time. I think this is a normal and natural thing. A weekend will fly by very quickly and long absences mean there is a settling in period. I bet you just get comfy with each other and you;re flying home again.

All too often people will say dump the "candidate" "potential" "Girlfriend" whatever you call her as the first sign of concern. This is scary! It leaves us feeling like we are being inspected, auditioning for a role and if we aren't perfect we will get cut.

OK so maybe I'm being "the candidate"'s cheerleader ... i think someone should be!
 
Hmmm. Good points, SweetLissa and Melanie, both. Very thought provoking, and I for one thank you.

Melanie, in truth a certain amount of inspection IS going on, and SHOULD -- in both directions. Think of it as a business decision. A 'No' does not mean either side is worthless. It merely means that THIS MATCH is judged unsuitable. Presumably it is better to discover that sooner rather than later.

Yes, she needs to know that he will care and provide a safe place for her heart. While understanding that he is human and will make mistakes.

At the same time, he needs to know that she does have a good attitude that will contribute to, rather than disrupt or potentially destroy his existing relationship(s). While understanding that she, too, is human and will make mistakes.

While I'm not so quick to say "Toss the relationship" as some may be, I have had experience with women making my acquaintance under the guise of interest in joining my family, only to have it become painfully clear that their actual agenda was replacement, not addition.

Perhaps the best advice that we can offer is loving support to all involved, while pointing each to the all-wise Father and revealer of hearts for specific guidance.

However, I can't quite keep myself from seconding (thirding?) the opinion for future reference that it seems sensible for the existing wife or wives to develop their own friendship with any "candidate" right alongside of the husband. Guys, the word used in Genesis when God said He was creating woman as a "help" for man is the same word used to describe the Holy Spirit in His role as a help. Yes, woman was deceived by the serpent, but our wives can be incredibly insightful -- especially about other women -- and we fellas need and are blessed by that insight. That has certainly proven true in my home, at least. Thank you, God, for my Cindy!
 
Well, tonight I am flying to see her one more time. Last night she pleaded that I don't go and then knew she really felt something and couldn't just let her go on the phone like that. Yes, she wanted me to leave my wife (the intimate part) for her but, I was very set against that, hope I am not being unwise by going there 1 more time. I would like to talk with her in person because i think that is more dignified.
She said that when she didn't love me she didn't mind sharing me but about 2 weeks ago she really starting feeling strong and now she couldn't. I told her I can't and won't leave my first wife and I can love her too. So, the choice is up to her because I won't replace my first wife for anyone or decrease affection from her. After some tough emotional talking (bargaining ? ), she said she accepts these terms only because she loves me. I don't want to hurt her but, can't and won't change the original terms. I love my first wife too and won't betray her.
It's a long shot but, we will see after this weekend. Her meeting my wife is a must next time we meet, if this works out. This has too much drama, my hair is falling faster. lol

Cubanito
 
So, I guess many complaints about material fairness can have a much deeper issues, I am guessing, those are just symptoms most of the time..
I was very upfront with her about the poly situation when we met and that was all I can offer. She accepted at first.
But next time, she is meeting my whole family first. After all we are a package deal.
Hope you all have a very blessed weekend,
Cubanito
 
I guess nothing ventured nothing gained. With all the loss, God must have something really great at the other side of the tunnel then. lol At least I will learn more lessons
Thanks, this too will pass. I really just want some sleep now, maybe on the 5 hour flight will get some.
Speaking if things.. Does annyone know where one can buy a tight lace waist training corset for a good price?
Figured someone might know.. lol
Take care,
Cubanito
 
CecilW said:
Hmmm.

Guys, the word used in Genesis when God said He was creating woman as a "help" for man is the same word used to describe the Holy Spirit in His role as a help. y!
Click to expand...

Hello Cecil, good to have your insight.
 
I want to be perfectly clear, especially for Melanie's sake because I am certain she thinks I was saying this..

I did not, nor would I tell cubanito to dump the "candidate" (a term I also despise by the way). And yes the costs of courtship are on the man, but if a woman wants more than she is given (a camera can be a very expensive gift) then I would wonder if she is being a bit materialistic. If she appreciated the fact that he spends money and time to come see her, then that would show that she was relationship driven rather than materialistic. I love surprises and so does T, but we don't care about the money spent, it is the thought. Truly it is, because if we go somewhere fun, we both like to know that we are being thought of during the fun. We also make phone calls to each other during fun times so that we can share and laugh and joke along the way.

The points I was trying to make were this, that it is about the relationship. I totally agree that intimate gifts of this sort should not be talked about. But in this instance, the jealousy needs to be controlled. Because at this point, she needs to understand that jealousy is not a positive thing in a polygamous relationship. It would be different if he had misled her into believing that he wanted only her and was leaving his wife, but if I am to believe the poster, that did not happen. It should be understood that a man will buy his wife intimate gifts and will give his girlfriend (who he is not yet intimate with) less intimate gifts. She didn't like the idea of him buying his WIFE sexy lingerie. I think that is an attitude that needs to be kept in check.

Don't get me wrong, T and I have both felt jealousy along the way, but we have both learned to keep it in check. Just cause you feel something doesn't mean it is correct and doesn't mean you have to show it. Jealousy is pretty much an unhealthy emotion in a poly relationship and it needs to be dealt with honestly and directly. She needs to deal with it herself, by recognizing it for what it is, repenting of it and doing her best not to let her feelings get out of control like that again.

This is where cubanito made his big mistake. By not including the first wife in on this courtship he has kept them from forming a bond of love and caring for each other. If this bond has been formed (and it can still be, but with more effort) then the women would have learned to be happy for each other instead of jealous. As our caring for each other grows, we have found that our jealousy becomes smaller and smaller. I don't really understand how it works, but it does.

I said from the beginning of my post that I wouldn't agree with the guy who said to dump the "candidate" because I didn't know the whole story. I am not that mean. I just wanted to bring up some of the signs I was seeing by reading between the lines.

A suggestion, if this relationship is to continue, Cubanito might consider flying the woman to his neck of the woods. It is cheaper to fly one person than the whole family. I know you were trying to conserve money by flying by yourself, but you definitely gave this woman the wrong impression. You need to correct that as soon as possible.

I believe that if you are smart, instead of flying there alone this weekend, you will fly her to meet your entire family and that should not change until you both are ready to make a commitment. It is not smart. You put yourself in a position of temptation and a position of the "appearance of evil".

SweetLissa
 
cubanito said:
Does annyone know where one can buy a tight lace waist training corset for a good price?
Figured someone might know.. lol
Take care,
Cubanito
Click to expand...

Um...are you talking of poly and patriarchy in a D/s context or a biblical one? That can be two very different things and if you are talking of the former then it may be difficult for most people here to understand your situation. I'm not claiming that i understand it either only what i am picking up in the terms you are using. As for the corset i would recommend that you go to a reputable maker and be fitted to measure, you don't want to skimp on anything you use for that purpose. There are a lot of asian imports on ebay these days and they are really awful.

Actually i thought Jorgema was at the head of the dumping brigade, but i understand what you are saying Lissa and agree with you.
 
okay, you got me on that one. I was clueless about the corset thing. I was thinking a completely different kind of sexy.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am happy that you were not reading between my lines.

Sweetlissa
 
It seems that deeper issues have been rooted out here, but I'd like to comment on the basic topic since my wife and I have been working things out about gifts recently.

I think that gifts are good but they do need to be in perspective, I don't go overboard with gifts but I try to get a nice piece of jewelry about once a year and little gifts here and there. We just went shopping together for a first gift for starting a relationship with our girlfriend (but not quite girlfriend, I being the relationship coward that I am asked her what she would say if we asked her out before we actually asked her out, so we are just planning to officially ask her out in the next week or so) What we got her is more of a trinket than a gift, its a similar to what I got Anndrea when we first started dating. A wife has the closest relationship and she contributes greatly to the family, she very well deserves the best gifts. Gifts for a girlfriend should be in perspective of how far along and how serious the relationship is. I've kind of looked back to what kind of things I would have gotten Anndrea at this point. Yes, a girlfriend know that when she is married the gifts will be comparable, but a girlfriend isn't the same as a wife and shouldn't be competing with wives for time\gifts\anything. Until she is a wife the relationship is nowhere near the same, and she should understand that. Obviously she should be given gifts and time and everything to nutrture the relationship, but dating is not marriage and I think its disrespectful to marriage to try to treat them equally when courting.

Secondarily, I think in all honesty very few women would see 100$ in expenses to be the same as 100$ in a gift. The gift is a much bigger thing no comparison. Us guys can see it as the same easily, but I think its pretty tough for them.

I hope you work this out well. Since she knows you well having her come to you is probably the best advice everyone here has given.

God bless you,

Jair
 
Hi everyone,
I felt I needed to add a little information to what is going on and why. My sweetheart was going alone but kept in contact with me, this was how I had wanted it. I thought it would be better if they had time to get to know each other without the distraction of my three girls and myself. My girls are sweet but they are very energetic and stubborn so they argue and complain often. She and I have been emailing each other and with some translation help from Cubanito we get to chat on the phone, we have sent each other gifts also. My plan was for her to meet each child with him first and then myself since wherever I go the children go, we had sent our oldest and we had only two daddy daughter trips left before the whole family trip. I do think we waited too long but in my defense I had to prepare my eldest for her crct tests and then we had to drive up to the testing site (we home school) that was an hour drive one way for a week. If things work out this weekend then the next trip will be all of us, I can't hardly wait to meet her in person. I have liked her from the beginning and feel that she is afraid we will be too close friends, it has been hard for her with her friends telling her all kinds of crazy things like 'maybe she is bi and wants a play friend' :oops: or 'she probably only wants a housekeeper/nanny and she shares because she doesn't want to play that much so you would be there to placate him' :o . She doesn't believe these things but she worries about it turning into something bad later.
About the corset, it was not a gift. I have been saving my change for a year to buy it and I finally had most of it when I found out about a sale going on for the one I was interested in. It is a custom piece and the additions/alterations I wanted would be no extra charge so I asked if he would help me make the purchase since I do not have a credit card or paypal. I gave him the money I saved and he made the payment for me. I would have purchased it without him but I wanted the sale price and he agreed to help thereby saving a hundred dollars off of the regular price.
I would love for her to come here and visit but she needs a visa to come here and getting one is difficult but also if she does become family a visitor visa could cause trouble for the fiancee visa if they discover she had a boyfriend here when she visited. They could deny her entry regardless of being married.

I truly hope that things work out but whatever the outcome thin will be done Lord.
 
Hi guys, I am back.. I wish I could bring her here but it is legally impossible unless I had very good connections with big brother or we could hike the dessert for days. lol That is why I was the one to go see her and she wanted to meet everyone there in the beginning ( I even rented a nice apartment with 3 bedrooms for the occasion) but changed her mind recently. She says it's because she now loves me, that meeting my first wife makes her very uncomfortable and stresses her out. The longer time pases I feel it will only get worst, like a cancer.
Last Saturday she was ready again but, today she changed her mind, again. I am tired of the unstable attitude, I am just tired. The last thing she asked for was her own house and I was ok with that but, thinking about it now that she won't even meet her I don't think it would have been smart for our family to duplicate expenses like that, especially with the economy and the things we had to cover when my dad died last month. I would like one family with healthy goals, not a double life with a wife competing and trying to pull apart the family. She still wants to isolate herself from the first wife and has started making some irritating comments about polygamy and the whole situation she agreed with from the very beginning. I am growing tired now..
So about the material stuff (the topic), if there are relationship problems, even a house is not a good enough thing to give. lol
It is essential for the women to get along and be good friends. She says that she feels my first wife is first class with her seniority and her second class. What a mess, I think it will take a direct miracle to fix this situation. Just wanted to share this with you guys, it's not easy at all.
Cubanito
 
Cubanito,
I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time. It sounds to me like this woman is not prepared for this type of relationship. When I advised you to bring her here I didn't realize that she was out of the country. Of course that complicates things.

I will tell you that we are paying for two households right now and it is very expensive. But on a deeper level, it is hard on the family. We all have the desire to be together, so it is especially difficult. In your case with your potential wife wanting her own house, I believe she is trying to separate herself from the rest of your family. Our ideal is that we would all be a family. Reside in the same space, share responsibilities, work and fun.

The hardest thing I have ever heard hubby say about it is that whenever he is with one of us, he feels like he is missing the other part of the family. No matter where he is he is not whole. That is hard on a man. He always feels that he has left someone behind. What do you do with two homes when there is an emergency. For instance, while still living in Reno, during Christmas time, hubby spent the evening with me. But a snow storm was looming and T hates snow. She won't drive in it. So with the prospect of snow, he had to leave one of us alone. That is not a choice any man should have to make. That is one of the many reasons that we desire to be in the same home.

SweetLissa
 
Yes, we should be building a strong family and no tearing it apart. This is very difficult for most people to accept because of self and social programming I guess.
Many care more about self, even if it means destroying the family and husband. Another lesson learned..
May God always bless you guys, thanks,
Cubanito
 
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