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Becoming "one".
- Thread starter steve
- Start date
We are the bride of the Messiah. And are we not to be of one mind and one accord with his spirit? Then if we are to reflect him, should we not lack selfishness and have the same with whom we cleave? Isn't one flesh a reflection of the oneness been us. If two are at war together with principalities, powers, and wickedness in high places. Standing their ground. Staying the corse. Occupying on behalf of the kingdom as ambassadors. ....
How much more so will 3. Or 4. As "ONE".
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How much more so will 3. Or 4. As "ONE".
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Re: Becoming "one".
That'll preach!
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That'll preach!
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John 17
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
It struck me that the disciples were "one" in ways that no other group has been since they walked the earth. They had traveled daily with Yahushua and listened to him for hundreds of hours.
They were truly "Stockholmed", if you will allow me to abuse the term.
They also walked in power and annointing like no group that we have ever seen. Individuals, yes, groups, no.
As a group (Christians, messyainiacs, whatever), we have become much less "one" than the group that he was teaching.
As a group, we are fairly powerless.
1 Corinthians 11:30 (KJV)
For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
Study the whole chapter, it is all about attempting to inspire them to get on the same page. So that they wouldn't be powerless.
What can we, at this point, do about it?
We can recognize that our families are the smallest of sub-groups in the Kingdom.
That our immediate goal is to become one with our wives in the way that our Creator intended. Set the foundation of the family and let YHWH expand it from there.
Set a goal of becoming one as a family and let YHWH lead you toward it.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
It struck me that the disciples were "one" in ways that no other group has been since they walked the earth. They had traveled daily with Yahushua and listened to him for hundreds of hours.
They were truly "Stockholmed", if you will allow me to abuse the term.
They also walked in power and annointing like no group that we have ever seen. Individuals, yes, groups, no.
As a group (Christians, messyainiacs, whatever), we have become much less "one" than the group that he was teaching.
As a group, we are fairly powerless.
1 Corinthians 11:30 (KJV)
For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
Study the whole chapter, it is all about attempting to inspire them to get on the same page. So that they wouldn't be powerless.
What can we, at this point, do about it?
We can recognize that our families are the smallest of sub-groups in the Kingdom.
That our immediate goal is to become one with our wives in the way that our Creator intended. Set the foundation of the family and let YHWH expand it from there.
Set a goal of becoming one as a family and let YHWH lead you toward it.
Very good points Steve. This naturally happens to some extent in a healthy marriage - after ten years Sarah and I say the same phrases, think exactly the same thing at the same time (and crack up laughing together), etc. Our personalities and opinions have become unified simply due to time and closeness.
What you are presenting is the next step - to actively work to achieve this in spiritual matters.
And then to take that and achieve it in the church as a whole.
I don't think the specific term "one flesh" refers to this since it is also applied to a relationship with a prostitute. However this oneness should certainly be our goal in marriage, and in Christian life in general, as the other verses you cite show. And the intimate "one flesh" aspect of marriage is an integral aspect of our unity, that strengthens this oneness and should lead to and support this spiritual oneness in a healthy marriage.
What you are presenting is the next step - to actively work to achieve this in spiritual matters.
And then to take that and achieve it in the church as a whole.
I don't think the specific term "one flesh" refers to this since it is also applied to a relationship with a prostitute. However this oneness should certainly be our goal in marriage, and in Christian life in general, as the other verses you cite show. And the intimate "one flesh" aspect of marriage is an integral aspect of our unity, that strengthens this oneness and should lead to and support this spiritual oneness in a healthy marriage.
Samuel, I believe that there are millions of connections in being one.
The fact that we, in a measure, become one with a prostitue shows that there are downsides to becoming connected to the wrong people. Connection having more spiritual significance than we realize.
I believe that YHWH gave me some understanding a while back. An understanding that is totally unprovable, but I invite everyone to seek YHWH's input on the matter. He alone can tell you whether it is true or not.
First it must be understood that the understanding of the Hebrews is that YHWH has both masculine and feminine sides to His personality. The masculine side is obvious, but they see the Shekinah as being the feminine, nurturing side.
So when He made Adam in His image, Abam had both the masculin and feminine. Physically I have no clue how that looked. But when He took the "curve" (how the Hebrew word is best translated) out of Adam He was removing his feminine side.
So in reality, man was no longer whole, complete, without the woman by his side. And woman is not complete either without a husband. See Is. 4:1. The reproach (shame) was in living with no need of a husband.
Becoming one partially involves somehow, emotionally and spiritually, returning to the state of integration that Adam initially lived in, but we do it in two separate bodies.
The symbolism that I saw was the yin/yang symbol with one had pink and the other blue. This was Adam. YHWH didn't split him on the dividing line perfectly like I would have thought. He sliced the knife in a straight line from one side to the other leaving a small portion of the opposite personality with each side.
Men getting in touch with their feminine side a little too well may very well be the enemy's attempt to erase the gender differences that YHWH put in place.
Another thing about this is that we, both genders, are truly unbalanced without each other. Trying to fulfill each other's roles goes against the way that we were created. Just as expecting the opposite sex to comprehend things the way that we do is forcing them to go against the nature that was created in them. There are varying levels of crossover in all of us, but forcing it is the problem.
Still working on that'n in my approach to leadership.
The fact that we, in a measure, become one with a prostitue shows that there are downsides to becoming connected to the wrong people. Connection having more spiritual significance than we realize.
I believe that YHWH gave me some understanding a while back. An understanding that is totally unprovable, but I invite everyone to seek YHWH's input on the matter. He alone can tell you whether it is true or not.
First it must be understood that the understanding of the Hebrews is that YHWH has both masculine and feminine sides to His personality. The masculine side is obvious, but they see the Shekinah as being the feminine, nurturing side.
So when He made Adam in His image, Abam had both the masculin and feminine. Physically I have no clue how that looked. But when He took the "curve" (how the Hebrew word is best translated) out of Adam He was removing his feminine side.
So in reality, man was no longer whole, complete, without the woman by his side. And woman is not complete either without a husband. See Is. 4:1. The reproach (shame) was in living with no need of a husband.
Becoming one partially involves somehow, emotionally and spiritually, returning to the state of integration that Adam initially lived in, but we do it in two separate bodies.
The symbolism that I saw was the yin/yang symbol with one had pink and the other blue. This was Adam. YHWH didn't split him on the dividing line perfectly like I would have thought. He sliced the knife in a straight line from one side to the other leaving a small portion of the opposite personality with each side.
Men getting in touch with their feminine side a little too well may very well be the enemy's attempt to erase the gender differences that YHWH put in place.
Another thing about this is that we, both genders, are truly unbalanced without each other. Trying to fulfill each other's roles goes against the way that we were created. Just as expecting the opposite sex to comprehend things the way that we do is forcing them to go against the nature that was created in them. There are varying levels of crossover in all of us, but forcing it is the problem.
Still working on that'n in my approach to leadership.
I believe I read somewhere we start with female brain till 2nd trimester. Then it becomes male.
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Re: Becoming "one".
Don't know. I would assume it was speaking chemically?
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Don't know. I would assume it was speaking chemically?
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Good points Steve.
TLS, be careful not to accept such statements without seeing some form of actual scientific proof. There are so many political or philosophical points to be made with such arguments that you have to be rather careful with them. They can be entirely fabricated.
TLS, be careful not to accept such statements without seeing some form of actual scientific proof. There are so many political or philosophical points to be made with such arguments that you have to be rather careful with them. They can be entirely fabricated.
True. Just recalling a random memory.
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Eristhophanes
Member
steve said:
In the womb the male baby gets a testosterone bath that destroys somewhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of the connectors between left and right brain. This is the difference that allows men to be focused and analytical, blocking out everything except what they are concentrating on while women tend to take in all the sensory input from everything.
I can recall a time when men were referred to as "brain damaged" after the studies proving this were published but haven't heard that in a long time. The ability to do current scans of brain activity to monitor the flow of activity demonstrates that men's and women's brains are *not* the same. There are perhaps other differences, but the destruction of connectors between left and right brain in males is huge.
The thing is, it isn't just the physical brain it's how the brain is controlled and it turns out the human body isn't nearly as in control of itself as we might think. The research into the microbiome is still so cutting edge that we don't know enough to know what we don't know at this point. The body has trillions of microbes living in it with millions of genes and the microbes are responsible for all kinds of things and interact with the genes in our bodies, turning them on and off in ways we don't understand. However, what we do understand is that over time a husband and wives will "normalize" to the same microbiome. Call it "becoming one flesh."
When one considers the effect of the microbiome on the body, which impacts digestion, mood, susceptibility to things like allergies and asthma, hypertension, fatty liver disease, depression, schizophrenia, a host of things most people never consider. For example, the gut bacteria produces about 95% of the bodies serotonin and affects bile acid metabolism, which can affect satiety feelings as well as fat production and storage. Autism has been linked to a set of three specific varieties of bacteria in the gut. I remember seeing a link to dyslexia in a study last year. The list goes on and on.
Just from the microbiome viewpoint, crazy appears to be contagious.
In terms of human genetics, when a woman is pregnant fetal cells from the baby invade the mothers body and they are almost all stem cells which go to whatever area of the mother's body needs help to repair it. The stem cells from the baby get half the DNA from the father of the child, and that DNA permanently becomes part of the mother. And, there's the act of sex itself, in which the woman is designed to absorb a lot of prostaglandins from the man contained in his semen that the woman's body does not produce.
Folks, watch this carefully. Currently I know of NO research being done in the area of DNA transmission specifically through intercourse and it is practically forbidden. I asked some friends and they told me it's off the table. Why? Because it there is DNA transmission from mother to child in the act of breastfeeding, then there has to be some DNA transmission during sexual intercourse because the woman's body provably absorbs the compounds in the semen through the mucosa in the vagina, cervix and uterus.
A few years ago some studies were published on the subject of male microchimerism in the female. The money quote:
It's not politically correct to correlate induced abortions with sexual promiscuity. That's a no-no. At any rate, there were a number of articles that picked up on the DNA transmission between man and woman during sex (you can google them) and the grant money spigot was turned off on anything that might fuel such non-PC research. Because nothing must be allowed to interfere with the promotion of sexual promiscuity and miscegenation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16084184/
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0045592#pone.0045592
Which brings us back to the Biblical point that God placed a great deal of importance on virginity and made sex the act that begins marriage. Perhaps it begins to explain Leviticus 21:13-15 and the corresponding comments to the priests in Malachai 2:14-17, both of which reference marrying a virgin and link it to Godly offspring that are not profaned.
That was very interesting and informative, Eristho.
i enjoyed it and you did manage to connect it to the theme of becoming one.
This thread is not about the whole virginity-only thing, though.
We become one at some level with whomever we marry.
How can we become more one than we already are?
i enjoyed it and you did manage to connect it to the theme of becoming one.
This thread is not about the whole virginity-only thing, though.
We become one at some level with whomever we marry.
How can we become more one than we already are?
Eristhophanes
Member
Quite all right, Steve.
I was not trying to make the thread about virginity, nor did I just happen to weave in the genetics and microbiome information on becoming one flesh in order to do so. I'm actually not sure what the "virgin only" thing you're talking about is in terms of becoming one flesh but I do perceive you to be somewhat hostile.
You originally asked:
Do we become "one" in any way other than (or more than) the sexual act?
The Apostle Paul said this is a great mystery, both the becoming of one flesh in marriage and becoming a member of the Body of Christ. In doing so he equated the two as spiritual functions of God rather than physical functions of man. But there's a lot we don't know. WRT to physically becoming one body, what science is turning up right now is amazing in terms of how our bodies interact and it brings insight into the idea of "one flesh". Our ignorance of just 25 years ago in terms of the physical aspects of becoming one body compared to today is astounding and that should give us pause because we know nothing of the spiritual aspects of becoming one flesh.
I pointed to some really interesting research (to me, anyway) that explains how through the physical act of sex we physically become one in ways nobody could imagine before. Given that our ignorance is so great about these things, would you mind telling me why you seem to be offended at what I said?
I was not trying to make the thread about virginity, nor did I just happen to weave in the genetics and microbiome information on becoming one flesh in order to do so. I'm actually not sure what the "virgin only" thing you're talking about is in terms of becoming one flesh but I do perceive you to be somewhat hostile.
You originally asked:
Do we become "one" in any way other than (or more than) the sexual act?
The Apostle Paul said this is a great mystery, both the becoming of one flesh in marriage and becoming a member of the Body of Christ. In doing so he equated the two as spiritual functions of God rather than physical functions of man. But there's a lot we don't know. WRT to physically becoming one body, what science is turning up right now is amazing in terms of how our bodies interact and it brings insight into the idea of "one flesh". Our ignorance of just 25 years ago in terms of the physical aspects of becoming one body compared to today is astounding and that should give us pause because we know nothing of the spiritual aspects of becoming one flesh.
I pointed to some really interesting research (to me, anyway) that explains how through the physical act of sex we physically become one in ways nobody could imagine before. Given that our ignorance is so great about these things, would you mind telling me why you seem to be offended at what I said?
Re: Becoming "one".
Great points Eristophanes. On the subject of the microbiome, sorry for too much information, but when my wife and I first kissed "properly" we found my saliva was much saltier than hers. But after a while, this difference disappeared, we became the same. We have often wondered about this physical change. An altered microbiome would explain that very well - the microbial communities in our mouths may simply have become populated with the same organisms. If a physical change like that can happen purely from kissing, just think what intercourse must do.
Great points Eristophanes. On the subject of the microbiome, sorry for too much information, but when my wife and I first kissed "properly" we found my saliva was much saltier than hers. But after a while, this difference disappeared, we became the same. We have often wondered about this physical change. An altered microbiome would explain that very well - the microbial communities in our mouths may simply have become populated with the same organisms. If a physical change like that can happen purely from kissing, just think what intercourse must do.
I have found and am finding this subject to be becoming very intriguing
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It is fascinating. Eristophanes is never not fascinating.
Becoming "one".
The act of sex or ejacuation during sex for that to happen would be my question.
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The act of sex or ejacuation during sex for that to happen would be my question.
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Eristhophanes
Member
Re: Becoming "one"
In terms of the microbiome it doesn't even take penetration, just a bit of... um... extended close contact because the microbes... they be everywhere. As for the genetic end of it, ejaculation is not completely necessary because the pre-seminal fluid contains genetic material, but to get the volume and all the goodies ejaculation is necessary. Now, I find this sort of thing interesting but some obviously don't. In fact, the idea that the ejaculate from a man contains something very beneficial for a woman is considered misogynistic. Really. Dr. Lazar Greenfield of the University of Michigan and at the time President Elect of the American College of Surgeons (we'd call that being at the peak of his career) was ousted because he wrote an essay that pointed this out. Really. It was so bad the entire issue of Surgery News was pulled from the web, but you can read it here:
http://retractionwatch.com/2011/04/...ry-news-editor-retraction-resignation-follow/
Anyway, while they claim it's the last line in the essay that caused the problem, it isn't. The real reason why the essay was considered so offensive was because it highlighted research that certain persons with a pair of XX chromosomes would rather not see the light of day:
Get that? Women who regularly have unprotected sex (something that is safely done only within committed marriage) get depressed significantly less often, think better and just plain feel so much better that they don't attempt suicide as often. The essay didn't mention the fact that semen is the most complicated of the body's fluids (more complex than blood) and contains a lot of prostaglandins the female body does not produce but which are readily absorbed through the vagina, cervix and uterus. Nor did it mention that when a woman's nipples are stimulated during sex (Proverbs 5:19 commands husbands to do that) her body releases oxytocin and the amount increases when she orgasms; and if the man and woman orgasm at the same time, the reaction of the woman's body to the semen hitting her cervix at that point hits the trifecta of oxytocin release resulting in a wonderful post-coital glow that can last for hours. Had Dr. Greenfield made those points I'm sure he would have been lynched by a depressed and suicidal mob of angry feminist lesbians because they finally heard the one thing they never though they'd hear:
Fish, meet bicycle.
Seeking Great Pearl said:
In terms of the microbiome it doesn't even take penetration, just a bit of... um... extended close contact because the microbes... they be everywhere. As for the genetic end of it, ejaculation is not completely necessary because the pre-seminal fluid contains genetic material, but to get the volume and all the goodies ejaculation is necessary. Now, I find this sort of thing interesting but some obviously don't. In fact, the idea that the ejaculate from a man contains something very beneficial for a woman is considered misogynistic. Really. Dr. Lazar Greenfield of the University of Michigan and at the time President Elect of the American College of Surgeons (we'd call that being at the peak of his career) was ousted because he wrote an essay that pointed this out. Really. It was so bad the entire issue of Surgery News was pulled from the web, but you can read it here:
http://retractionwatch.com/2011/04/...ry-news-editor-retraction-resignation-follow/
Anyway, while they claim it's the last line in the essay that caused the problem, it isn't. The real reason why the essay was considered so offensive was because it highlighted research that certain persons with a pair of XX chromosomes would rather not see the light of day:
Get that? Women who regularly have unprotected sex (something that is safely done only within committed marriage) get depressed significantly less often, think better and just plain feel so much better that they don't attempt suicide as often. The essay didn't mention the fact that semen is the most complicated of the body's fluids (more complex than blood) and contains a lot of prostaglandins the female body does not produce but which are readily absorbed through the vagina, cervix and uterus. Nor did it mention that when a woman's nipples are stimulated during sex (Proverbs 5:19 commands husbands to do that) her body releases oxytocin and the amount increases when she orgasms; and if the man and woman orgasm at the same time, the reaction of the woman's body to the semen hitting her cervix at that point hits the trifecta of oxytocin release resulting in a wonderful post-coital glow that can last for hours. Had Dr. Greenfield made those points I'm sure he would have been lynched by a depressed and suicidal mob of angry feminist lesbians because they finally heard the one thing they never though they'd hear:
Fish, meet bicycle.